Following the lead of a gun nut on some board, some where, I was successful in my application for a C & R license. I have all the accompanying books, etc, from the Fed, but have not read them.

My question - I'm selling a sporterized 1924 Swedish Mauser - is it legal for me, a C & R license holder, to ship this firearm?

I know I should read everything, but I got the license just in case I came upon a collector gun along the way - still learning the ropes of holding a current C & R license.

I think most questions can be best answered at the below link.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faqindex.htm

Thank you for the voluminous amount of information found on the site you provided. I have the hard copy of all that information, provided by the ATF when my license was approved. The online info is easier to read, but I am unable to find an answer about shipping a C & R firearm/long rifle.

Now, can anyone answer my question?

Does this help:

"G3) Does a license as a collector of curio or relic firearms authorize the collector to engage in the business of dealing in curios or relics? [Back]

No. A dealer's license must be obtained to engage in the business of dealing in any firearms, including curios or relics. "

quote:

Originally posted by Wallhead:
Following the lead of a gun nut on some board, some where, I was successful in my application for a C & R license. I have all the accompanying books, etc, from the Fed, but have not read them.

My question - I'm selling a sporterized 1924 Swedish Mauser - is it legal for me, a C & R license holder, to ship this firearm?

I know I should read everything, but I got the license just in case I came upon a collector gun along the way - still learning the ropes of holding a current C & R license.

If you don't want to take the time to research the material pertaining to your license, you can phone the BATF and they can shed a light on the topic for you.
http://www.atf.gov/press/2008press/021408fflc_custserv-enhancements.htm

Yes you can ship that rifle as long as it's considered a C&R item. Things that would eliminate it from C&R is for example rebarreling it to sporter new barrel. In other words really modifying it from it's original state.

As far as dealing goes the way I understand it is that you can not buy C&R items and sell them as a business. You CAN buy a C&R item and if you decide, for example, you don't like it, you can sell it. You just can't do this as a business or to make money off it.

You are suppose to keep an acquisition and disposition record of all your transactions too.

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:
Yes you can ship that rifle as long as it's considered a C&R item. Things that would eliminate it from C&R is for example rebarreling it to sporter new barrel. In other words really modifying it from it's original state.

As far as dealing goes the way I understand it is that you can not buy C&R items and sell them as a business. You CAN buy a C&R item and if you decide, for example, you don't like it, you can sell it. You just can't do this as a business or to make money off it.

You are suppose to keep an acquisition and disposition record of all your transactions too.

A "sporterized" rifle is not a Curio or Relic.

Additionally - aquiring a C&R rifle and sporterizing takes it out of C&R status.

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:
Things that would eliminate it from C&R is for example rebarreling it to sporter new barrel. In other words really modifying it from it's original state.

A "sporterized" rifle is not a Curio or Relic.

Additionally - aquiring a C&R rifle and sporterizing takes it out of C&R status.

I believe that is what starmetal said.

Attention Wallhead:

From the ATF's FAQ section:

"(B15) Are curio and relic firearms exemp from the provisions of the GCA?

No. Curios or relics are still firearms subject to the provisions of the GCA; however, curio or relic firearms may be transferred in interstate commerce to licensed collectors or other licensees."

No offence to any of the other knowledgeable posters here, but when you get into Federal Firearms Regulations, I think it's a really good idea to get your answer directly from the horse's mouth.

Wallhead, no offense to you or anyone else but internet advice on ATF matters is risky. Second only to calling the ATF because (a) you can get different answers from different branches and (b) telephone advice will not protect you if the inspector disagrees.

But the question is answered in that the sorterized rifle is no longer a C&R firearm.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:

quote:

Originally posted by Macifej:

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:
Things that would eliminate it from C&R is for example rebarreling it to sporter new barrel. In other words really modifying it from it's original state.

A "sporterized" rifle is not a Curio or Relic.

Additionally - aquiring a C&R rifle and sporterizing takes it out of C&R status.

I believe that is what starmetal said.

I was agreeing with him...

Yes, you can ship the rifle to any eligible person in your state or to a FFL holder in another state. Your C&R has no bearing on shipping firearms, only receiving them.

Craigster, it appears I offended you and for this I apologize. Just asking a question for confirmation of what I thought to be the correct answer to my own question. I can assure you, I will not offend you, or anyone else for that matter, with questions such as this on this forum again. My C & R license will be put away for a long, long time.

Macifej, Westpac, Starmetal, and mrfudd, thank you for your answers. I appreciate your willingness to help a new C&R holder clear up any misinterpretations regarding use of the C&R license.

Foxfire, thanks for taking the time to offer your answer, but it doesn't appear to pertain directly to the question I posed.

Wow. I'll need to walk around a while before I sit down - haven't had an ass-chewing like that for quite some time. I need to word my questions better...

even if you didn't have your license it would be legal to ship it to another FFL holder be it C&R or regular FFL. I have a C&R license myself, it pays for itself in the discounts I get from midway. If you don't use your C&R license to buy a firearm you don't put that in your log,(bound book) so if you had this gun before you ever got your license you have no need to make a log entry for it. sporterized rifles are what I would call a gray area in the rules of the license, some may interpret the rules differently, some notable C&R eligible guns, pre 64 winchesters, winchester model 88's, all SKS rifles.

Hey Cummins Cowboy, thanks for the headsup - now that is good info. Giddyup!

quote:

Originally posted by Wallhead:
Craigster, it appears I offended you and for this I apologize. Just asking a question for confirmation of what I thought to be the correct answer to my own question. I can assure you, I will not offend you, or anyone else for that matter, with questions such as this on this forum again. My C & R license will be put away for a long, long time.

Macifej, Westpac, Starmetal, and mrfudd, thank you for your answers. I appreciate your willingness to help a new C&R holder clear up any misinterpretations regarding use of the C&R license.

Foxfire, thanks for taking the time to offer your answer, but it doesn't appear to pertain directly to the question I posed.

Wow. I'll need to walk around a while before I sit down - haven't had an ass-chewing like that for quite some time. I need to word my questions better...

Hey Wallhead,

I was in no way offended, and you have no reason at all to apologize. The point I was trying to make is that as a license holder a guy needs to know the rules for his own protection. Info garnered from the Internet can at times be questionable. As my old pal Ronald Reagan said, "Trust but verify". Don't put your C&R away, just use it wisely. Last thing I want to see is an honest fellow in deep shit with the Feds.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Wallhead, no offense to you or anyone else but internet advice on ATF matters is risky. Second only to calling the ATF because (a) you can get different answers from different branches and (b) telephone advice will not protect you if the inspector disagrees.

But the question is answered in that the sorterized rifle is no longer a C&R firearm.

Some of these laws are so stupid. Would a M94 Musket that has been sporterized no longer be a C&R?

Wallhead, et al, I am sure you have found the answer to the question you posted last August, but here is the ATF reg that perfectly addresses it:

This from ATF Publication 5300.11, revised April 2004:

[QUOTE]Licensed collectors may lawfully import curio or relic firearms other than surplus military firearms, nonsporting firearms, and NFA weapons. [A surplus military firearm is defined as one that belonged to a regular or irregular military force at any time. Alteration of the firearm does not change its status. Therefore, a sporting firearm with a military surplus frame or receiver is a surplus military firearm, because a frame or receiver is classified as a firearm as described in 18 U.S.C. section 921 (a) (3).]... [QUOTE]

Will this paragraph change anyone's mind about sporterized rifles made more than 50 years ago?

Here's the entire paragraph you quoted from. It's from the IMPORTATION RESTRICTIONS section

"Licensed collectors may lawfully import curio or relic firearms other than surplus military firearms, nonsporting firearms,
and NFA weapons. [A surplus military firearm is defined as one that belonged to a regular or irregular military force at
any time. Alteration of the firearm does not change its status. Therefore, a sporting firearm with a surplus military
frame or receiver is a surplus military firearm, because a frame or receiver is classified as a firearm as described in 18
U.S.C. § 921(a)(3).] Surplus military firearms are generally prohibited from importation under 18 U.S.C. § 925(d)(3).
However, 18 U.S.C. § 925(e) authorizes licensed importers (FFL type 08 or 11) to import surplus military rifles,
shotguns, and handguns classified as curios or relics; provided that such handguns are generally recognized as
particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes. Nonsporting handguns are those pistols and revolvers
that do not meet size and safety prerequisites, or that do not accrue a qualifying score on ATF Form 4590, "Factoring
Criteria for Weapons." Surplus military firearms classified as curios or relics must be in their original military configuration to qualify for importation ."


As can be seen, this paragraph applies only to importation of milsurps, not transfers.

And it also states that Licensed collectors may lawfully import curio or relic firearms other than surplus military firearms, nonsporting firearms, and NFA weapons.

A milsurp that you can prove was sporterized more than 50 years ago, such as a G&H, is probably C&R eligible. However if the action is stamped 1936 but it was sporterized in the 1970's, it's been altered and is no longer C&R eligible.

And I agree totally with Craigster, everyone should do their own research.

a 51-year old model 70 is C&R.

if the mauser was sporterized 51 years ago, what's the difference?

the problem is proof. that burden is on the feds. your risk to take.

but not selling to or through an FFL - that does not require a license.

A quick clarification: All pre 64 Winchesters are C&R.

Sporterized Milsurps made 50 years ago is a bit of a grey area.

State laws come into play as far as an individual being able to ship a firearm out of state. This does not apply to licensees shipping an eligible firearm to another licensee. Key word they was eligible firearm and I am not 100% positive about sporterized milsurps being C&R eligible, but that is a book keeping matter for the BATFE; you could ship the gun to a licensee in another state as an individual as long as your state permits it.

Isn't this all a moot point with an 1894 Swede which is antique in the first place? Not even a gun?

ETA: After reading the whole post the 1924 got lost in my brain. I remembered the 4 being the last digit and my brain went to 1894 Swede. Sorry for clouding the post with that part.

quote:

Originally posted by airgun1:
A quick clarification: All pre 64 Winchesters are C&R.

Sporterized Milsurps made 50 years ago is a bit of a grey area.

State laws come into play as far as an individual being able to ship a firearm out of state. This does not apply to licensees shipping an eligible firearm to another licensee. Key word they was eligible firearm and I am not 100% positive about sporterized milsurps being C&R eligible, but that is a book keeping matter for the BATFE; you could ship the gun to a licensee in another state as an individual as long as your state permits it.

Isn't this all a moot point with an 1894 Swede which is antique in the first place? Not even a gun?

Only an 1894 made before 1899.

oh stop it he wants to know if he can ship it
His CR license doesn't allow change is ability SHIP, only, in specified cases, to RECEIVE

No, sir, your license doesn't allow you to sell and ship to a non-ffl holder. In some cases, it MAY allow you to receive, though.

quote:

Originally posted by mrfudd:
Yes, you can ship the rifle to any eligible person in your state or to a FFL holder in another state. Your C&R has no bearing on shipping firearms, only receiving them.

+ a zillion