I am tempted to buy a Drill Doctor, either the 500X or 750X model. Application is mostly for small bits -- No. 31 up to 1/4. I'm looking for advice from any of you who own and use one. I cannot for the life of me sharpen a #31 bit reliably, and this machine apparently will sharpen a carbide bit, too.

Bill Jacobs

Well, I'm pretty old, blind and shaky. But I can sharpen a drill on the belt sander or diamond wheel and it will cut quite well in steel. It will usually cut .004 inch oversized and the edge won't hold long, but it will make a hole. I bought the cheap Drill Doctor to try, figuring it would solve all of my worldly problems. It didn't. Yes, it worked well enough that I could drill plastic, wood, brass and occasionally wear a hole in steel but all in all it was a miserable flop and I threw it into the trash. I then bought the more expensive one and found that I could still sharpen them much better by hand. 1000 times better, so I gave it to my neighbor. I don't actually like the guy. I then bought something similar made by Craftsman or some other department store brand and after 10 minutes of playing I brought it back. I finally bought one of these little Mandarin speaking units on a recommendation from a frein-enemy that sharpens from 1/8 and a bit smaller up to 1/2 inch from my tool falcon. He brought it in direct from China for me. It worked EXCEPTIONALLY WELL! Much better than I could or have ever ground one by hand. He actually bought the larger version for himself. Later, when he found that he hardly ever used the fool thing he sold it to me. It will actually sharpen up to 1 inch. I believe the little one uses ER16 collets and the big one uses the standard ER40 collets to hold the drills. Will it sharpen as good as production made drills? Well, almost. They do get the angles and center cuts right but they don't hold an edge quite as long as a brand new drill. Also, the drills sharpened by the small one always cut between .0005 and .001 inch oversized of what a new drill will. The products of the big sharpener cut between .001 and .004 inch oversized as the size of drill goes up. The big unit sharpens PAINFULLY SLOWLY with bits over 3/4 inch and I usually rough grind them by hand on the belt sander and just finish them in the machines. I think I paid about $650 each for them Canadian, but I think I got a bit of a break on the big one because it was used. All in all if you tried to steel them off me, I would probably shoot you. In the foot of course, but just the same!

They were a good investment and they have LONG paid for themselves. They sharpen high speed, carbon or carbide with no problems.

https://www.aliexpress.com/ite...hine/1608627167.html


drill sharpeners by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

I wouldn't take a Drill Dr as a gift much less buy one

I must have the only good one made, as I don't have any trouble with mine, and the bits so sharpened work fine on both hot-rolled and cold-rolled steel. I have the Drill Doctor 500X.

Rod,
I love your writing style and sense of humor

This is the one I bought for my machining students. It worked very well but may not have the range you want. My classes used it for about 3 years with no issues. It was still in use at the school when I left.

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09522772

You can buy new #31 bits from MSC orMcMaster-Carr pretty cheap!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
You can buy new #31 bits from MSC orMcMaster-Carr pretty cheap!

Don't tell anyone Jim, because it's a secret. But if you get on EBay you can find carbide drills (3mm = #31) and (3.5mm = which is right between #28 and #29) for next to nothing. I normally pay less than $4 USD each including shipping. I order about 50 at a crack when I can get them cheap and that many lasts me a couple of years. Damned things drill through ANYTHING! It's just a sort of minor miracle that those two common metric sizes are exactly what gun plumbers use mostestest.

3mm carbide on this site are $3.39 each. You would need a pretty big stick to beat that price for something that will drill through glass.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HRC-T...dzOzBtNmxuOaPKJSYIPg

Drills make holes close to size. Reamers make holes to size. I sharpened drills 1 inch and under by hand, quicker than the various machines. Bigger than inch I used a Farrel-Sellers drill grinder.

Dave

Thanks for the tip Rod! Just ordered a half dozen of each. Don't think I could have figured out the metric conversion without your help either

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
You can buy new #31 bits from MSC orMcMaster-Carr pretty cheap!

Don't tell anyone Jim, because it's a secret. But if you get on EBay you can find carbide drills (3mm = #31) and (3.5mm = which is right between #28 and #29) for next to nothing. I normally pay less than $4 USD each including shipping. I order about 50 at a crack when I can get them cheap and that many lasts me a couple of years. Damned things drill through ANYTHING! It's just a sort of minor miracle that those two common metric sizes are exactly what gun plumbers use mostestest.

3mm carbide on this site are $3.39 each. You would need a pretty big stick to beat that price for something that will drill through glass.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HRC-T...dzOzBtNmxuOaPKJSYIPg

quote:

Originally posted by MNR:
Thanks for the tip Rod! Just ordered a half dozen of each. Don't think I could have figured out the metric conversion without your help either

Damn it I told Jim not to tell anyone ! ! !

YOU SEND THOSE DRILLS RIGHT BACK MNR, YOU CHEATERERERER YOU ! ! ! !

Actually, I still know that most gun plumbers buy them from Brownells for $25.75, Gunsmith cost for straight flute, #31 carbide drills and spend hours sitting over then with EZ Lap files sharpening them when they chip or break. I know, I did that myself 15 years ago. Now when these Chinese ones break or chip (if there is enough to salvage) I toss them into the: "to grind box" and when I get 10 or 15 I regrind them in the drill sharpener and beat the piss out of them again.

I got the 750 and tried every dull drill i could find in the shop.

Even went so far to do some for a few friends.

It works well but you got to follow the instructions or you can cut some ugly looking bits.

The type drhall mentioned is the best type sharpener that I have ever seen. We had one like this at Leviton Mfg. years ago and it worked wonderfully on everything from little bitty to around 1.5".

God Bless, Louis

Some of the best advice I received when first getting into the gun trade was to purchase machining tools from a machine tool supplier, likewise with woodworking tools. Brownells is a great resource for the gunsmith, but (IMO) is best utilized for gun-related purchases.

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:


Actually, I still know that most gun plumbers buy them from Brownells for $25.75, Gunsmith cost for straight flute, #31 carbide drills and spend hours sitting over then with EZ Lap files sharpening them when they chip or break. I know, I did that myself 15 years ago. Now when these Chinese ones break or chip (if there is enough to salvage) I toss them into the: "to grind box" and when I get 10 or 15 I regrind them in the drill sharpener and beat the piss out of them again.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MNR:
Some of the best advice I received when first getting into the gun trade was to purchase machining tools from a machine tool supplier, likewise with woodworking tools. Brownells is a great resource for the gunsmith, but (IMO) is best utilized for gun-related purchases. [QUOTE]

The reality of it is that, places like Brownells, Busy Bee and Lee Valley Tools are boutiques for what they sell. They don't carry the best or most expensive stuff out there and they DEFINITELY don't carry economy stuff like Harbor Freight and Princess Auto. What they have is generally middle of the line stuff combined with enough pro-staff and information to allow you to buy what you need to get the job done well. If you just don't know what you need or want, the boutiques are the place for you. But you have to understand that you are going to PAY, for that specialization, inventory and pro-staff! I never knock boutiques because I have learned a great deal from them and occasionally I still use them because they tend to carry everything needed for specialized jobs. But once you get everything figured out and you are willing to start digging, you can generally get better quality, at a cheaper price by going direct. Most of my machine tools come in the mail from the USA, England, China and Israel. But I do get several orders per year from the boutiques.

32 years ago this september I started my first year of Poplar Bluff Tech

Machine Tool Technology......and what do you think our first "floor" project was?

Sharpen drills.......for weeks !!!

No success with sharpening gadgets,sharpening drills and cutting tools are basic skills that come with practice A bench grinder and good light (and glasses ) are a help. As Jim and Rod say small drills are cheap on line.jc

Ahhh, great subject I'm partly familiar with.

Back in '65 when I was 21. I worked in the precision drill dept of Aircraft Mechanics in Co/Spgs. Before they moved me to a lathe. Everything we did was "within tolerance" or it was scrapped and asses chewed.

Eight of us ran a bank of three presses per bench with a different size bit in each. Most holes were thru "guides in jigs". They help a LOT when using small bits that tend to flex and break. We also used coolant too. "Shorty" taught us how to sharpen a bit so it cuts smaller holes if pointed a little, and touch bigger if sharpened flatter on the tips. Amazing what you can do with a drill bit, IF it's ground properly.

We had a good 8x flat plate glass on the grinder and ground our own bits down to 1/16". Under that we traded back to the tool crib for new.

IF you've never drilled #80 holes in soft gummy aluminum you haven't had real fun drilling holes!
Some of the parts I drilled and made were on the 2nd and 3rd space flights. Couple of them were used to send monkeys into space inside glass tubes and such "playthings". Funny thing, that was when Teflon had never been heard of, we drilled and turned things out of solid chunks and plates of it sometimes, lot's of other metals too.

I'm so much older and out of practice I have hell sharpening a 1/2" bit on the grinder now that will even drill a damned hole! Of course I don't have that fine 8x glass to watch what I'm doing either. Almost never need a hole less than 1/16". Over an inch, in steel I use a torch.
NO, I don't do any gun work.

Never tried, but, wondered how those gadgets work. Good to read about 'em.

George

I'd like to hear other opinions, but many years ago a master machinist told me to not bother sharpening drills 1/4" and under.

In the in gun business, I find maybe a dozen or less sizes are in regular use. I buy packages of ten in those sizes and have a nice sharp drill whenever I need one and I think I save time (cost) in the long run...?

To chime in; I bought a drill sharpener about 25 years ago and it was useless, so I threw it away. I do not remember the make.
I have hands steady as a surgeon and my eyes are 2x vision up close only, (not kidding) (of course I can't see anything past half a foot without my glasses), and I sharpen drills.

I have heard of people throwing away dull drills for a new one vs. sharpening.

We might on small stuff like sub .060ish but in my trade we drill miles eorth of holes each year.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
I'd like to hear other opinions, but many years ago a master machinist told me to not bother sharpening drills 1/4" and under.

In the in gun business, I find maybe a dozen or less sizes are in regular use. I buy packages of ten in those sizes and have a nice sharp drill whenever I need one and I think I save time (cost) in the long run...?

I had a bit of a chuckle when you brought that up Duane. Not at you, like the little kids do when you're wandering back from the coffee shop, but with you! Most of the jobbing shops I have worked in and most of the big machine shops simply toss small stuff. You can't pay someone $40 per hour to stand around and sharpen light tooling that costs that little. In a 1 man or 2 man gunshop when things are slow, yes it can pay to toss drills and endmills into the sharp box and sit down at the Cuttermaster grinder, universal grinder and drill sharpener when it's slow and redo them. But keep in mind that even a Cuttermaster clone like the one I have is $4,000 USD and my drill sharpeners set me back $1,000 USD. It gets pretty hard to justify the cost. Also, sharpened tooling never works as good as commercial ground with perfect finish, geometry and the coatings in place. Like you I keep an inventory of stuff. I grabbed all of my #28 and #31 carbide in the front row and #28, #29, #31 and #32 HSS in the back row (probably 100 per tray) and probably $1,000 worth of Reiff & Nestor HSS 6x48 and 8x40 taps in the center. That's all just for 6x48 and 8x40. Some people may say it's a waste of money to inventory it. But after being in business for 35 years I just write it off as the cost of doing business. And I do plan on breaking or burning up every last bit of it in very short order.

Sharpening a $3 drill bit makes about as much sense as sharpening $5 disposable carbide inserts.

6x48 8x40 by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

But now that you edumacated me that they are selling drills for $4 that I always paid $15 and up for, I might re-think that.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:
32 years ago this september I started my first year of Poplar Bluff Tech

Machine Tool Technology......and what do you think our first "floor" project was?

Sharpen drills.......for weeks !!!

Ted, 50 years ago I was placed in front of a K O Lee tool and cutter grinder. A lightweight machine. My first job was to learn and sharpen end mills.
I do have a Drill Doctor 750 that I have used sparingly as I have a pretty good quantity of drills in number, letter, fractional and metric sizes. They mostly came with the shop that I bought. The Drill Doctor works fine on the 1/4" and larger drills.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
But now that you edumacated me that they are selling drills for $4 that I always paid $15 and up for, I might re-think that.

I do the same with end mills Tom. I no longer even look at HSS. Most gunparts are pre-hard and wood and fiberglass simply destroys HSS. Also, running HSS requires water and it makes a mess in the shop. Once a week I peruse EBay by typing in the size I normally use or want and what I want. Don't bother just typing in: "carbide end mills". You will be scrolling for months. Be specific and ask for something like: "3/8 inch carbide end mill" Then I scan through the bundled stuff until I hit something with price plus shipping that falls into the range I'm willing to pay. Lot's of times I will buy stuff that I know that I won't run out of for 6 months or more just because it's a good deal. Like this one here. Cost plus shipping on these works out to about $14.00 each including priority shipping to Canada. Not a great deal but I know from experience that the normal price on stuff of this quality normally sells for about $16.00. They are not the sort of tooling you would run in a production shop on CNCs. They just don't hold up as well as the good stuff. But in a jobbing shop, on single stage machines they will plow through a lot of material and stand up to regrinding a few times if you're just knocking the ends off. I have paid as little as $8 a piece for 3/8ths end mills that outfits were dumping. I once got a bundle of 20, 1/2 inch, coated solid carbide for less than $10 each. It pays to take 10 minutes a week and just look at whats being dumped by some of the bigger carbide places. Especially on stuff that you normally use all of the time. I am ALWAYS on the prowl for big carbide for cheap, for wood. When you get up to 3/4 inch and larger carbide becomes VERY EXPENSIVE! If you can get it at 50% of normal cost, you can't let it escape!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PCS...f:g:7scAAOSwa~BYaby~

I purchased a CutterMaster and can do drill bits, mill bits and anything else that needs to be ground with a wheel.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Nisbet:
I purchased a CutterMaster and can do drill bits, mill bits and anything else that needs to be ground with a wheel.

Knives and scissors?

Yes Butch.
I have accessory holders that have capability to position in all directions. Kind of a 6 degree of freedom movement of the element being ground.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Nisbet:
I purchased a CutterMaster and can do drill bits, mill bits and anything else that needs to be ground with a wheel.

Knives and scissors?

They are pretty versatile machines Butch. Just like that $70,000 vacuum that the evil monster that lives in your kitchen has. You can get attachments that will not only sharpen, but I'm sure there is one that will run and get you a beer and mow the grass too.

The only problem with them is that they are painfully slow in comparison to other, modern, boutique sharpeners. You also need to know all of the geometry of the tooling you're working on and you end up with about 20 different grinding wheels from boron to diamond at $100 to $300 each in differing shapes and sizes for different operations. The modern, canned sharpeners have all that built into them. One machine shop in town has one of those canned end mill sharpeners and you basically just put the tool in one hole and it lops 1/32nd off, put it into the next hole and it grinds the relief, the next hole does the cutting edge and the last one gashes it. What it does in 2 minutes takes me 15 or 20 minutes on the Cuttermaster. But for a small shop and providing you're just working with carbide the Cuttermaster works just dandy. For HSS it is a bit of a pain in the ass as you are forever dressing wheels and you should run mist on the tools as you grind which of course is pretty messy. I made the jump to 100% carbide about 5 years back. I would never go back to HSS even if sharpening wasn't an issue anyway.

Rod,
I agree with all your observations. It may not be for the production shop but for a hobby machinist or someone who wants a custom ground item today and not when a supplier will deliver, it may be a good option.

Rod,
That is why I take them, along with kitchen knives to the professional to sharpen

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Rod,
That is why I take them, along with kitchen knives to the professional to sharpen

That and for the fact that the evil monster that lives in your kitchen put her little foot down about some of your D.I.Y. projects which involved (SHARPS) because she was getting tired of plugging the leaks in your carcass, Pawpa ! ! ! !

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Rod,
That is why I take them, along with kitchen knives to the professional to sharpen

That and for the fact that the evil monster that lives in your kitchen put her little foot down about some of your D.I.Y. projects which involved (SHARPS) because she was getting tired of plugging the leaks in your carcass, Pawpa ! ! ! !

YUP!