I have a 2" diameter .458 barrel which is being turned down to normal size ,but with integral front sight ,sling attachment and recoil lugs/ quater rib mount. I was wondering if the internal bore dimensions change much if the barrel gets turned down. The barrel is a Krieger CM barrel which would have been heat treated and cryoed. I also had CSC treatment done.
Do you think the internal dimensions will change much?

not to worry.....it's highly unlikely that any measurable changes to the bore will result from machining the outside of the barrel. Especially a barrel so treated as you mention.

Machining those things integrally is beastly expensive.....may I ask what the price is to do that?.

I have had several L.V. barrels turned down by Hart and they seem to be quite accurate still. I do not remember just how expensive it was but if my memory serves me it was well under 100 dollars.

Vapodog. Yes ,its pretty expensive to get a barrel turned down and machined with all integral components. Much much more than the $100 just to turn a barrel blank down to a thinner profile. It is for my custom big game rifle which is being built up in 458 Lott. I,m not sure of the exact cost to do all the turning and machining ,but most of the cost would be in the final finishing after the machines have finished. I know Purdey ,H&H and some others build barrels with integral components milled into the barrel. I was just wondering how they go about minimizing the amount of dimensional change in the bore ,if any. The reason I went for the cryoed barrel and CSC treatment ,was hopefully it wouldnt move as much when machined.
Has anyone done much of this sort of work?

I once machined a barrel with triple taper octagon and half round with an integral rib the entire length.....I has no measurable effect on the bore but can have devastating effect on the straightness. I had to straighten the bore several times.

In the end it shot quite well (it was a .222) but I spent over 200 hours dfoing the milling.

I wouldn't do that today for less than $1,500 and it would be void of any warranty of accuracy at all.

Your barrel so treated should have little trouble with this.....further the full length rib is far more complex than a front sight and barrelband.

The quarter rib is a tough nut however.....

Best of luck to you...please post pics when you get it.

$1500.00 divided by 200hrs comes out to only $7.50 an hour! I wonder what this barrel is going to cost at current price levels.

iirc, a well known maker used to do a polished finished barrel ONLY with intregal rib, lug, slingstud and front sight..JUST the barrel, for $1800.. and a years wait.

some guys can mill them on manual machines, I am not one...

However, I may be doing these (next year or more) "as machined" , on my cnc mill. the price will be dependent on the hassle factor, but I am guess 1200-1500 bucks

jeffe

AUS$5000 would be a rough figure. I think this is what he (Gabe Gatti)quoted in his latest price guide. But then this is pretty high quality stuff and well finished.

cr500,
I know of one barrel that opened up on the muzzle about 0.20 when it was being turned. The guy who built the barrel had a somewhat tainted reputation for not stress relieving his barrels. A good friend was doing the metalwork and got the money back and went with a Pac Nor barrel. This situation only involved turning the barrel down and not the extensive work that you are doing. Coincidentally, it was being done for an Aussie friend of mine, who lives in Queensland. Krieger sress relieves all his barrels. I suspect you will be just fine. If you have the opportunity, it would be nice to see a picture of it here when it is done.

I have built a half round/half octagon barrel from a large barrel blank and it had no problems.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
iirc, a well known maker used to do a polished finished barrel ONLY with intregal rib, lug, slingstud and front sight..JUST the barrel, for $1800.. and a years wait.

some guys can mill them on manual machines, I am not one...

However, I may be doing these (next year or more) "as machined" , on my cnc mill. the price will be dependent on the hassle factor, but I am guess 1200-1500 bucks

jeffe

I think a lot of the price depends on the degree of finish. I know these barrels started at $3000 at Fred Well's shop when Dan Pedersen worked there.

I also know what it takes to polish one correctly and if they delivered them close to ready, it's a bargain!

I'v done a few of them all on manual machines and have had no problem with straightness or dimensional changes to the bore. I feel a lot of it depends on good machining practices like proper speeds and feeds (light cuts) and plenty of coolant. I also prefer cut rifled barrels for this as they ar less likely to open up at the muzzle once all the stress/metal is removed. I know once stress releived they shouldn't move due to stresses induced during the button rifling process but I have heard of it in a couple of instances.

A friend of mine, Rick Stickley, has probably done more of these than anyone alive and he nearly always used button rifled barrels such as Douglas or Shilen. He only had a couple of problems and it may have been the same with cut rifled barrels if he'd been using them at the time.

I'm currently finishing up on a full integral Kreiger barrel with quarter rib, full length rib and banded front sight with pedastel swivel base. Bore dimensions have remained the same throughout. I bought the blank a little larger in diameter than I needed and also longer, however now its over 15 lbs. lighter than when I started. That's a lot of chips, and a lot of hours.

Shane Thompson

idgnmkr. Being cut rufled is something I didnt think of. At least the Krieger is cut rifled. I hope it will all turn out well then. The gun maker did say that he mills it in small facets and takes a bit of each side as he goes ,not all on one side ,to prevent warpage etc. I just thought I might check into other peoples experience to get any tips before he starts machining.

I wondered if anyone would mention Rick Stickly...he lived not too far from my place in Arkansas for a number of years and I have had the pleasure of seeing / touching a large number of his barrels...and I still wonder how anyone could do it!!! I was too poor at the time to afford one, but he was patient with my questions...he said that he prefered Kreiger or at the very least, Douglas. Any others seemed to give trouble...Does anyone know his location??? Arthur Olds

500
to minimize the bore opening up , starting of with a cut rifle barrel you have eliminated 90% of your problem
REGARDS DANIEL

quote:

Originally posted by M 98:
500
to minimize the bore opening up , starting of with a cut rifle barrel you have eliminated 90% of your problem
REGARDS DANIEL

There is reason to support this statement. I could buy this one easily.

Here is one of my rifles that has a quarter rib, swivel eye, and ramp milled in one piece in a round configuation. To date I haven't noticed any adverse effects from the machining. It started life out as a Shilen blank.

Arthurolds,

As you may already know Rick left Pocatello Idaho about five years ago. He moved to Iowa where I was in touch with him for a while. It's been a couple of years since I spoke with him. He's fairly elusive since I understand he left more than a few clients high and dry. Last I spoke with him he was working as a machinist for a poor wage and not really involved much with guns. His own thoughts were that it would take some time to repair his reputation as a metalsmith. He did take all of his equipment with him so I imagine he's doing gunwork at least on a local level.

Shane Thompson

Hello,
Precision Shooting had a series of articles on 22 rim fire barrels. The author felt that the bore will change if the O.D. was machined after it was bored. May be it would be better to start with a smaller bore and machine the O.D. and then re-bore.
John