quote:

I had heard that either Gentry made Dakota's, or vice versa

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
I wouldn't call it a lack of QC at Dakota just because a shroud doesn't screw in. If you measure 50 mauser bolts you'll likely come up with 50 different meaurements.

Heck, ever try to fit one of Ed LaPour's shrouds? They are purposely left a tad large so as to be hand fitted to ensure the best possible fit. Sadly, those not in the know tend to PooPoo the safety giving it an undeserved bad name. Ed's is undoubtedly one of if not the best Safety on the market.

My only complaint of the Dakota shroud besides never being in stock is the weak detents the safety has. The middle position is too easy to overshoot. I find it much easier to go to the third position first then back to the middle.

Now, the Gentry, that one is fraught with problems. The threads are often not indexed properly, or the lever was not indexed properly when the relief was cut that allows the cocking piece to enter the tunnel when the flag is full forward. I think Jim Anderson has seen enough Gentry's to last him a lifetime. Worst part is trying to deal with Gentry when an issue does arise. Have fun.

Not saying that QC issues don't crop up now and again. I had to make a mandrel to recut the threads on a Dakota not too long ago. But that was the first in over a 100 installed.

If you take a milsurp Mauser shroud and try it in 50 bolts you will find that there are some it will not screw into. To make an aftermarket shroud that is a true drop in part would require making the threads so small that it will be sloppy in the majority of bolts it is fitted to.

Me, I prefer to hand fit them. Ain't hard or time consuming but it insures superior function.

Shilen? Well, it ought to be fun when Butchlambert reads this!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
I wouldn't call it a lack of QC at Dakota just because a shroud doesn't screw in. If you measure 50 mauser bolts you'll likely come up with 50 different meaurements.

Heck, ever try to fit one of Ed LaPour's shrouds? They are purposely left a tad large so as to be hand fitted to ensure the best possible fit. Sadly, those not in the know tend to PooPoo the safety giving it an undeserved bad name. Ed's is undoubtedly one of if not the best Safety on the market.

My only complaint of the Dakota shroud besides never being in stock is the weak detents the safety has. The middle position is too easy to overshoot. I find it much easier to go to the third position first then back to the middle.

Now, the Gentry, that one is fraught with problems. The threads are often not indexed properly, or the lever was not indexed properly when the relief was cut that allows the cocking piece to enter the tunnel when the flag is full forward. I think Jim Anderson has seen enough Gentry's to last him a lifetime. Worst part is trying to deal with Gentry when an issue does arise. Have fun.

Not saying that QC issues don't crop up now and again. I had to make a mandrel to recut the threads on a Dakota not too long ago. But that was the first in over a 100 installed.

If you take a milsurp Mauser shroud and try it in 50 bolts you will find that there are some it will not screw into. To make an aftermarket shroud that is a true drop in part would require making the threads so small that it will be sloppy in the majority of bolts it is fitted to.

Me, I prefer to hand fit them. Ain't hard or time consuming but it insures superior function.

Shilen? Well, it ought to be fun when Butchlambert reads this!

Isn't that kinda like what I said? Only not so many words?

Aut vincere aut mori

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:
I wouldn't call it a lack of QC at Dakota just because a shroud doesn't screw in. If you measure 50 mauser bolts you'll likely come up with 50 different meaurements.

Heck, ever try to fit one of Ed LaPour's shrouds? They are purposely left a tad large so as to be hand fitted to ensure the best possible fit. Sadly, those not in the know tend to PooPoo the safety giving it an undeserved bad name. Ed's is undoubtedly one of if not the best Safety on the market.

My only complaint of the Dakota shroud besides never being in stock is the weak detents the safety has. The middle position is too easy to overshoot. I find it much easier to go to the third position first then back to the middle.

Now, the Gentry, that one is fraught with problems. The threads are often not indexed properly, or the lever was not indexed properly when the relief was cut that allows the cocking piece to enter the tunnel when the flag is full forward. I think Jim Anderson has seen enough Gentry's to last him a lifetime. Worst part is trying to deal with Gentry when an issue does arise. Have fun.

Not saying that QC issues don't crop up now and again. I had to make a mandrel to recut the threads on a Dakota not too long ago. But that was the first in over a 100 installed.

If you take a milsurp Mauser shroud and try it in 50 bolts you will find that there are some it will not screw into. To make an aftermarket shroud that is a true drop in part would require making the threads so small that it will be sloppy in the majority of bolts it is fitted to.

Me, I prefer to hand fit them. Ain't hard or time consuming but it insures superior function.

Shilen? Well, it ought to be fun when Butchlambert reads this!

Isn't that kinda like what I said? Only not so many words?

I'm sorry, didn't know that once you had spoken the topic was closed.

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fal Grunt:
Jim, I had heard that either Gentry made Dakota's, or vice versa. I plan on using one of Lapours safety's on a future project to see how I like them.

Dewey, Shilen does make great barrels, a friend has won a great many competitions using their barrels. However... I got 12 barrels in this last batch, boy... more than a few of them will be challenging.

Mike, absolutely, I cannot emphasize enough that making any type of aftermarket mauser part is a difficult proposition. I spose I should just take some pictures of this shroud compared to a few other shrouds. You can see with a quick look that the thread form is not fully cut. Similar if you have ever seen a NOGO thread gauge? Hand fitting will not be quick on this one!

I'll be interested to hear what Butch has to say. I would indicate the runout on one of the 7mm barrels I was getting ready to cut but none of my indicators will measure that much travel!

Anyone used a NECG? Opinions? Problems?[/QUOTE



Re: Necg (Recknagel) safeties. I liked these a lot! In my experience, they require some fitting, but not as much as La Pour. I like the real screw to remove the flag instead of a one way taper pin. And..a bit easier to engrave.

I too, have had plenty of trouble with Gentry safeties. Too bad... still like the looks best of any out there

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fal Grunt:
Jim, I had heard that either Gentry made Dakota's, or vice versa. I plan on using one of Lapours safety's on a future project to see how I like them.

Dewey, Shilen does make great barrels, a friend has won a great many competitions using their barrels. However... I got 12 barrels in this last batch, boy... more than a few of them will be challenging.

Mike, absolutely, I cannot emphasize enough that making any type of aftermarket mauser part is a difficult proposition. I spose I should just take some pictures of this shroud compared to a few other shrouds. You can see with a quick look that the thread form is not fully cut. Similar if you have ever seen a NOGO thread gauge? Hand fitting will not be quick on this one!

I'll be interested to hear what Butch has to say. I would indicate the runout on one of the 7mm barrels I was getting ready to cut but none of my indicators will measure that much travel!

Anyone used a NECG? Opinions? Problems?[/QUOTE



Re: Necg (Recknagel) safeties. I liked these a lot! In my experience, they require some fitting, but not as much as La Pour. I like the real screw to remove the flag instead of a one way taper pin. And..a bit easier to engrave.

I too, have had plenty of trouble with Gentry safeties. Too bad... still like the looks best of any out there

Duane, I think LaPour changed his design to omit the tapered pins.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Mike,Well lets see.
My Rock and Bartlein BR barrels are shooting great.
James Anderson has had no trouble cutting a few Shilen barrels into octagons for me. James Kobe has had no trouble installing the Gentry and Dakota 3 pos safeties for me.
Nat, unfortunately you will have to make do with what you purchase while doing custom gunwork.Certainly not a knock on you, but some of this comes from learned skills and the school of hard knocks.
Butch

Aut vincere aut mori

quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:
The barrels I received are unturned, a straight 1.250 the whole length. This accommodates the integral front sight base.

The particular .284 barrel has a surprising amount of runout. Enough so that I cannot turn the barrel between centers because of the vibration. I would indicate how much, but none of my indicators have enough travel.

I normally turn about 6" of one end down about .050 between centers. Then I crown the other end. With the amount of chatter and vibration I am getting from the runout I am having a hard time getting a good finish.

Any suggestions?

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Nat,
Why did you complain on a forum that can't fix your problems? I visited with Shilen and you have never said anything to them.
Nat, they can't fix anything that they are unaware of.
Butch

quote:

Perpendicular only applies to that infinitismal portion of the bore at the crown end.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

Perpendicular only applies to that infinitismal portion of the bore at the crown end.

Would you not want the shoulder where you are butting the barrel to the action to be perpendicular to the bore?

quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:
Something not intended to throw fuel on the fire, but merely information to use at your discretion. Upon reading Westpac's post I realized I was making an incredibly stupid assumption. I was assuming that the centers put in by shilen were actually centers. So I did a simple experiment.

I took the 7mm barrel in question and turned it between centers. Then using gauge pins I mounted the barrel in 2 v-blocks on a surface plate and indicated the diameters. The V-block's are close, not perfect, but close. The guage pins were vermont minus pins.

What I found was interesting. The center on the "label" side (ie where shilen stamps barrel information) the center was dead nuts. However at the other end, the turned diameter was ~ .0055 off.

So I have modified my process a little to account for the centers being off, part of which, includes turning the OD concentric, facing, and re-centering(single point)

Jim, I do not know. I have been doing a lot of research about this and am getting all kinds of mixed responses.

quote:

Originally posted by gasgunner:
First thing you do is ALWAYS cut the barrel to as close as finished length as you can while leaving enough length for you to work with, then cut new accurate centers on each end. Doing this and turning a few inches at each end to run true to the new centers should be a 5 minute deal regardless of how far out the barrel is. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill, leave that to the guys on BRcentral :-).

If you are getting chatter on the ends, you need to look at your setup. Trying to turn in the center of A 28" blank yes, but within 2" of the tailstock you should not be getting any chatter.

Best of luck,
John

quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:
Ok, in all seriousness. What should I look at in my setup? I have a dead center on the drive end with a faceplate and a live center on the other end. Thats all I have for cutting the OD concentric.

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:

Just curious, do you take a truing cut on your dead center every time you mount it? I take a truing cut every time I use a dead center, be it chuck mounted (all the time now) or when I would use a face plate. A lot of folks assume the center to always be... well, centered. And no matter how minor the change, it changes every time is it mounted.

quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:

Just curious, do you take a truing cut on your dead center every time you mount it? I take a truing cut every time I use a dead center, be it chuck mounted (all the time now) or when I would use a face plate. A lot of folks assume the center to always be... well, centered. And no matter how minor the change, it changes every time is it mounted.

Westpac,

I do not, my center is a precision ground hardened center.