Just what is the PRACTICAL COL for chambering in a "standard length" M98 without "lengthening" the action itself?

------------------
Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!

[This message has been edited by wildcat junkie (edited 02-09-2002).]

But why would you want an 8 x 68? You can duplicate its performance with an 8mm Remington, or if you want something more exotic, build a wildcat 8mm on the Remington Ultramag case. Besides, the ultramag case will fit a regular .530 bolt face without alteration.

------------------
Andr�

quote:

---

Originally posted by Andr� Mertens:
The only thing that refrains me from adding a 8x68S to my battery is the low availability of reloading components. But that may change with future demand

---

Where does one get brass for the 8x68S?

What sort of velocity is realistic with a 200gr bullet?

Does anyone have case dimensions (including rim diameter)?

Would anyone happen to know the water capacity of the case in grs.?

Where can I find load data?

------------------
Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!

------------------
When in doubt, do a nuclear strike.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
But why would you want an 8 x 68? You can duplicate its performance with an 8mm Remington,

---

Congrats.
You just earned the "Alfred E. Neuman of the week award" for patently absurd, yet obvious humor.

Carcano

Is there a particular trigger guard that is large enough to handle this length? I have measured mine, and it is 3.315 Looks like I would want more than this guard can give. Total length of this vz24 is 3.507.

In the posts above I have seen you list 3.650 as a minimum desired length.... Also how much real modifications are required to let the length feed into a standard length opening again, my action opening measures 3.441?

The load data states approx. 2800 fps for a 200-grain bullet�. I would think you could push it a lot faster than that� More like 3200 fps with Reloader 22 give or take�..

Scout�.

quote:

---

Originally posted by dan belisle:
Rim dia. is .572", case base dia. is .524",

---

While published (Nobel Sport), the first value is a printing error.
Rim dia. is 13,00 mms (.512), case base dia. is indeed 13,30 mms (.524").

quote:

---

Load data is in the A-square manual and the Nobel Sport manual.

---

And in a couple of others, too.

quote:

---

Brass availability I'm not sure. RWS I suppose. Also S & B in Europe. I don't think norma loads for it, at least I've never seen a box.

---

Neither Sellier & Bellot nor Norma load for it. Factory ammo comes from RWS and Hirtenberger. RWS offers 3 different loads, Hirtenberger also 3. Since the 8 x 68 S is far more popular then the 9,3 x 64, brass will likely remain available for a long time.

quote:

---

I'm tempted to build one though. I came across a set of RCBS dies for this caliber for $50 Cdn. The 8mm Rem Mag has a lot more case capacity, and therefore the possibility of more speed with equal bullet weights. But the 8 x 68 doesn't have a belt, and doesn't need a true magnum length action.

---

Theoretically, this may be correct. All gun manufacturers that I know of, however seem to use different actions for the 8 x 68 S.

Carcano

quote:

---

Originally posted by scout:
In any of the manuals do they list barrel length?

---

The 8 x 68 was indeed designed for long barrels. The following test barrels were used by the reloading manuals:

RWS/DNAG: 650 mms
DEVA: 650 mms
Vihtavuori: 650 mms
Vapenjournalens Ladebok: 660 mms
A-Square: 660 mms
Hornady: 660 mms
Nobel Sport: 610 mms

quote:

---

The load data states approx. 2800 fps for a 200-grain bullet... I would think you could push it a lot faster than that... More like 3200 fps with Reloader 22 give or take...

---

The reloading manual data adhere to the CIP maximum pressure standards. Since there are no "old and weak" 8 x 68 rifles around (which possibility the industry pessures in other cartridges' cases take into consideration), this represents the safe maximum.
It is easily possible to top the velocities; however, there is a mere small engineering problem involved as far as the rifle action is concerned, namely to stop the dissipation of liquid brass into the action and the shooters face...

Regards,
Carcano

[This message has been edited by carcano91 (edited 02-10-2002).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dan belisle:
RWS ammo and brass for the 8 x 68. Horribly expensive. The Hirtenberger stuff seemed a lot more reasonable. Does anyone know anything about the quality of this brass?

---

You are welcome. Lutz Moellers comments on his experiences with 6,5 x 68 brass from Hirtenberger were less than entirely positive. In my feeling, the brass is a bit on the soft side. Their loaded ammo is more (!) expensive than RWS.

quote:

---

3200 fps in an 8mm with a 200 gr bullet is really 8mm rem Mag territory. I think it's very do-able,

---

Definitely not. Only if pressure and safety were no concern. Read the manuals on the 8mm Rem Mag.

Carcano

I think the .300 Win mag case is shorter than 68 mm, so perhaps Weatherby brass could be used. Still the 9.3x64 case is essentially a Belted Magnum case with belt turned off. The 8 and 6.5 x68 (S) case is BIGGER!

Good shooting and I would like a Mauser 8x68S, too!

Hermann

------------------

Scout...

[This message has been edited by scout (edited 02-11-2002).]

This is a rather interesting discussion. What are your suggestions for a proper gun weight to handle the recoil? In the wrong rifle it would be a rather mean kicking muleass.

Best regards,

Fritz

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fritz Kraut:
Vihtavuori in Finland have some recipes for the 8x68S: http://www.vihtavuori.fi/vihtavuori/rifle/8x68s.htm

This is a rather interesting discussion. What are your suggestions for a proper gun weight to handle the recoil? In the wrong rifle it would be a rather mean kicking muleass.

Best regards,

Fritz

---

Fritz: Thank you very much sir! In this one post you have given all of the information I sought!

Instead of sarcasm and criticism, you gave the exact information desired! You are a gentleman Fritz. Thank you very much.

The difference in velocity between the 196gr and 200gr variants is interesting. One would not expect a 150fps reduction in velocity for a 4gr increase in bullet weight. 3000fps with a 200gr Nosler Partition is what I am looking for. It looks to be practical from this data. The COL looks like it would easily fit into a "standard length" M98K with a little work on the magwell and feed ramp.

Now to find the brass @ a reasonable price!

P.S. I have absolutely no interest in any "belted" magnum! (with the possible exception of the 375 H&H, for which the "belt" does indeed serve a purpose!)

------------------
Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!

[This message has been edited by wildcat junkie (edited 02-12-2002).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
OOPS, WRONG BUTTON

---

------------------
Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!

[This message has been edited by wildcat junkie (edited 02-12-2002).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dan belisle:
WJ- yes, as I mentioned in the previous post, with some work the 8 x 68 will fit in a 98 action. I believe that 3000 fps with a 200 gr bullet is a reachable goal (depending on barrel length). As for weight and recoil, a 200 gr bullet at 3000 fps is about the same ballistically as a 300 Wby, so a rifle of about the same weight would probably be a good choice. Say 8-9 lbs. Not too heavy, but enough weight to help soak up the recoil. I think this is a good idea, so much so that I've added it to my list of projects. Good luck and keep us posted. - Dan

---

Dan: Sorry if you felt slighted by my last post. it was not aimed @ you, or anyone else that has tried to contribute data. What Fritz did was list publised data. This cleared up some conflicting information, and did indeed support your contributions. An 8# rifle with proper cast off and a 1" decelerator pad should be quite managable I think.

I too must put this on my list. I currently have the 8mm-06 A. I. to rebarrel, 2 VZ500 "intermediate length" large ring commercial M98 actions to build on,(8mm/376 Steyr Imp and 7mm WSM?) as well as a pristeen (except for "sporterized" stock of unknown origine) M98K with matching numbers. I think the later would make a good basis for an 8X68S (A NON WILDCAT CHAMBERING NO LESS)

Let's here some brass sources with prices please!

------------------
Life is more exitin' when yer stickin' suppositories inta a wildcats behind!

quote:

---

Originally posted by wildcat junkie:
The difference in velocity between the 196gr and 200gr variants is interesting. One would not expect a 150fps reduction in velocity for a 4gr increase in bullet weight.

---

As the quoted Vihtavuori data show, the small difference in bullet weight is indeed not the responsible factor.

Regards,
Carcano