Where would one send an action to have it reheat treated and what is the average costs for that?

Joe

http://www.bmproc.com/index.html

About $75 last time I sent one in.
Don

check this out

You might want to PM JBrown to see if you can piggyback with him.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
check this out

You might want to PM JBrown to see if you can piggyback with him.

Well the Model 70 Win action isn't exactly a military action, how would that fare with going in with Mausers?

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:
Well the Model 70 Win action isn't exactly a military action, how would that fare with going in with Mausers?

Joe

you didn't mention the make/model you wanted done.
Action heat treating here is almost exclusively Mausers.

To my knowledge, you're the first person to post here wanting to heat treat a M-70 action. I'll take a back seat and listen as I have no advice for you on the M-70.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:
Well the Model 70 Win action isn't exactly a military action, how would that fare with going in with Mausers?

Joe

you didn't mention the make/model you wanted done.
Action heat treating here is almost exclusively Mausers.

To my knowledge, you're the first person to post here wanting to heat treat a M-70 action. I'll take a back seat and listen as I have no advice for you on the M-70.

I sent you a pm.

For the other the full information is I got a pre 64 Model 70 Winchester complete action for a song and a dance. When I got it in the mail and after tinkering with it I came to the conclusion it had been in a fire. Thus the reason for heat treatment. I need to know what the rockwell should be on the receiver and bolt, where to rockwell those parts at. Now I can tell you that the small coil springs and the magazine box spring are pretty dang soft and have not tension. The collar spring that holds the extractor is pretty tough yet and parts like the firing pin, bolt shroud, receiver and bolt seem pretty hard.

Joe

In a fire??? Deja vu. Where did you acquire that?

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
In a fire??? Deja vu. Where did you acquire that?

AR15.COM...fellow from Oregon. Get it rockwelled? Re heat treated?

Joe

I'd look for original specs first. Assuming 4140 the hardness shouldn't be all that great maybe 40-42 HRc.I would reHT receiver and bolt , replace the rest .

quote:

Assuming 4140

mete, this is a 1949 action. Do we know this is a 4140 metalurgy?....and is there a risk of surface decarb in a fire.....

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Assuming 4140

mete, this is a 1949 action. Do we know this is a 4140 metalurgy?....and is there a risk of surface decarb in a fire.....

THAT is THE question of importance here.
I'd be real leary about getting it re-heat treated until I absolutely knew what steel was used in them.
Warping in the fire would be another concern. You might be building a sand pile here, with more problems than solutions, all of which cost big bucks to solve.

Don

Here are some pictures of the action and parts. Notice in the one with just the action and bolt how dark the bolt is. It has some kind of surface on it that is hard and black/blue and where doesn't have that surface is like it is missing, kind of like eaten away or something. The small parts have this only to a degree, mainly the trigger guard. It appears to me if it was in a fire that it was disassembled prior to the fire, because why doesn't the receiver look like the bolt? Unless someone polished it up some.





I can take more pictures if requested.

Thanks
Joe

Wouldn't many of the smaller parts (like the springs) need replacing if this action were in a fire?

ddj

I don't THINK it's a military secret, but Winchester used all sorts of alloys for their actions.

Years ago, I saw analysis of ten M-70's... every one was a bit different composition.

I don't know if these slight differences should affect heat treating, but suspect it would

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:
Where would one send an action to have it reheat treated and what is the average costs for that?

Joe

If it were mine, I would look for a metallurgical company who specializes in Optical Emission Spectroscopy. These folks can perform a "not too invasive", non destructive test to provide you with the correct analysis of the receiver and bolt. Then you could approach a heat treating company like Blanchards in SLC, Utah or PacMet to provide the correct treatment for what you have. If it were mine.

I live outside a very small mountain town, but ironically they have a ball bearing factory there. I'm going to get the action and bolt Rockwelled. At what area or areas on the bolt would I have the test perform and same for the receiver.

Thanks
Joe

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:
I live outside a very small mountain town, but ironically they have a ball bearing factory there. I'm going to get the action and bolt Rockwelled. At what area or areas on the bolt would I have the test perform and same for the receiver.

Thanks
Joe

Joe, save yourself some time and trouble and send the receiver and bolt to a heat treating company who specialize in this area. They are the experts. I doubt seriously that after having been in a fire, that the metallurgy is structurally uniform from end to end.

I'm sure the guy's down at the Ball Bearing Plant are knowledgeable in the area of ball bearings, but there is a world of difference between testing those and something that has to contain several tons of explosive energy that sits mere inches from your face. 'Send it out' would be my recommendation. For what that's worth.

+1

If it were my action, it would go to Blanchard's immediately.

I think I may have seen that action before!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
I think I may have seen that action before!!!!

yes Jim.....I thought of you when I first read it was a M-70

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
I think I may have seen that action before!!!!

Jim, what did you do with the one you had?

Joe

Vapor...pm sent.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
I think I may have seen that action before!!!!

Yes, I think I have too. Isn't that the one YOU offered me in partial trade for my MAGNUM Model 70 that was never in a fire. I am amazed that you were able to get rid of it.


Starmetal

Do yourself a favor. Place a call to Mr. David Miller in Tucson, AZ. His book (written by Tom Turpin)states that he used to have all of his pre 64 actions completely annealed before he worked on them because he did quite a bit of machining on them and he wanted to save on his tooling. (he buys his current actions in an annealed state, works on them, and then has them heat treated) He of course then had them re heat treated. He knows what he is doing, and he certainly would know which direction to point you in as far as who knows what to do with Pre 64 Model 70s.

my apologies to 22WRF.....It was not my statement nor my intent to imply that his action was ever in a fire or that he ever falsely represented it in any way.

It has become a humor point here on the gunsmithing forum.....nothing more!

22WRF has been totally upfront and honest in all dealings I've had with him on the classifieds and I've done busimess with him many times.....he has my trust!

quote:

It has become a humor point here on the gunsmithing forum.....nothing more!

I have a great idea. Lets all direct our humor on Kobe for awhile.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
I think I may have seen that action before!!!!

Yes, I think I have too. Isn't that the one YOU offered me in partial trade for my MAGNUM Model 70 that was never in a fire. I am amazed that you were able to get rid of it.


Starmetal

Do yourself a favor. Place a call to Mr. David Miller in Tucson, AZ. He used to have all of his pre 64 actions completely annealed before he worked on them because he did quite a bit of machining on them and he wanted to save on his tooling. (he buys his current actions in an annealed state, works on them, and then has them heat treated) He of course then had them re heat treated. He knows what he is doing, and he certainly would know which direction to point you in as far as who knows what to do with Pre 64 Model 70s.

Do you have contact information for Mr Miller?

This is getting to be fiasco, maybe I should have a fire sale and sell it.

Joe

Joe

I don't know for sure as I do not know him personally, but I believe the number for the David Miller Company, Inc. is 520-326-3117.

If you decide to sell the action I suggest that you see if Kobe wants it back. But be careful making a deal because he is so tight he squeeks.

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:
This is getting to be fiasco, maybe I should have a fire sale and sell it.

Joe

Joe, this is only becoming a fiasco because you are allowing it to be. The answer to your problem is simple and straight forward. All you need to do is do it. Nothing more, nothing less.

BTW, how much do you want for that worthless POS?

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:

quote:

Originally posted by starmetal:
This is getting to be fiasco, maybe I should have a fire sale and sell it.

Joe

Joe, this is only becoming a fiasco because you are allowing it to be. The answer to your problem is simple and straight forward. All you need to do is do it. Nothing more, nothing less.

BTW, how much do you want for that worthless POS?

There are two things to do...one scrap it or two have it reheat treated. The thing is deciding if reheat treatment is cheaper (then what I have into it) then looking for another GOOD action.

Okay for all following this I got the Rockwell test. The receiver tested out a 9.7 on the C scale and the bolt lugs at 10 on the same scale. It's not even safe for a rubber band rifle.

Westpac if you're serious what I want for it make me an offer pm and we'll discuss it. I'd want a signed letter saying that you are aware that it is an unsafe action in the condition it's in now.

By the way it's not worthless if it's reheat treated. This all also depends on whether the fellow that sold it to me will refund my money.

Joe

When all is said and done, you might be into the action $250.00 including new springs. $120.00 just to have the Bolt and Receiver analyzed and redone. I don't know what you paid for it, but Pre-64 actions are quite sought after in some circles. I would certainly contact the seller and tell him he should have used a condom when he screwed you 'cause you're coming after him for support.

As for me, I'm no longer interested in it. The signed letter stating that I am aware that it is a POS was the deal breaker. Good luck!

quote:

I would certainly contact the seller and tell him he should have used a condom when he screwed you

There is no doubt in my mind that the seller knew the action was in a fire!

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
When all is said and done, you might be into the action $250.00 including new springs. $120.00 just to have the Bolt and Receiver analyzed and redone. I don't know what you paid for it, but Pre-64 actions are quite sought after in some circles. I would certainly contact the seller and tell him he should have used a condom when he screwed you 'cause you're coming after him for support.

As for me, I'm no longer interested in it. The signed letter stating that I am aware that it is a POS was the deal breaker. Good luck!

The reason for the signed letter is to make sure anyone just didn't throw it together into a complete rifle and someone get themselves hurt. I do care about people and would never do such a thing to anyone. I told the fellow I got it from that if he knew it was in a fire and sold it to me that he was lucky I figured that out.

Here's where I think I have him for a refund of my money. I sent my money and my FFL license to purchase it. He said the action through the postal system and sent my licence back with it and no licenses from himself or a shipper. That technically is illegal. Now we've been hassling over a refund and he said get a Rockwell on it, which I have now done. I don't want to have to get hard on him for a refund. I also told him to destroy it should we work the exchange out.

The action is complete except for the hinged floor plate. I even found a NOS firing pin with cocking piece, because that was missing. Make me an offer West, you may be surprised.

Joe

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

I would certainly contact the seller and tell him he should have used a condom when he screwed you

There is no doubt in my mind that the seller knew the action was in a fire!

Yeah, he was even dumb enough to tell me he was fireman and because of his shift might not be able to ship the action out right away.

Let's talk about that word dumb above. I too was dumb for buying it. I bought it under the pretense it was in a rough condition from setting in a little box in a basement for a long time. That apparently isn't so we find out now.

Joe

FWIW, You don't need an FFL to sell or ship a gun to an FFL.

22WRF,
Just a point of clarification but if this is the famous winchester in a fire situation, you were not even present. A shill posing as you was at Kobe's shop and I assume you were out hiding in the bushes. Now you can get your alter ago to post the barking dog cartoon again (and yes I have been told it is you - send in the hounds or what you think constitutes a hound).

Customsucks

Another post from you that completely and positively shows your incompetence and lack of knowledge concerning what you are posting about. No wonder hardly anyone listens to you anymore.

1. You certainly weren't there either so how do you know what happened. (fyi I was in the driveway and the person was my brother becasue Kobe and I didn't get along and he insisted he wanted to buy the action)

2. My action was a Magnum action. This one is not. But then of course your mode of operation is to spout off without bothering to check facts.

3. Unlike the unfortunate fellow on this post Kobe was offered the option to get his money back if he later decided he didn't like the action. I do that with every sale I make.
(see
http://forums.accuratereloadin...2711043/m/7311037601 )

4. Ego is spelled E G O, not ago.

5. If somebody told you that I was the person who was posting the barking dog cartoon they were incorrect. (check the URLs or whatever it is you need to check) Once again, you are spouting off without checking the facts. You ought to know that a person can put anyone's user name on Notifications so as to be notified anytime that person posts. I am sure that whoever it is has your name on Notifications. Regardless, I do agree with whoever he/she is that you are a fruitcake.

quote:

Customsucks

If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Kolostomy,
I feel privileged to be bad mouthed by you. There is probably no one on here who is more clueless than you. You find some fucked up info and go touting your misinformation. But lets go back to the Kobe situation. You had your brother pass himself off as you and admitted it in here. Nice piece of work you are. Mr. Integrity. Then you come in here and tell us what Kobe said about the transaction. When we figure out you were 22WRF, you denied it and said ask Kobe, I visited him and told us all about the conversation that you NEVER HEARD. It had nothing to do with Jim not liking you. You wanted to keep your identity a secret, so you had your brother lie for you . Does it run in the family???

Lets see, you bad mouth Duane Wiebe and he has forgotten more about custom guns just during the time he was on the toilet depositing waste that are of more worth than you will ever be. I feel better all the time with your comments about me. Bring it on.

Now check my post for typos, evidently you are good for something.

Regarding #5, You admitted to the identity and it was brought to my attention. Just another indication of your lack of any integrity. You and I both know it is true but you can keep your line of BS going and someone with a very dim wit might just get sucked in. They will be good company for you. I would like to know how many times that you have to tell a lie until you believe it yourself. You certainly are adept at it.

Starmetal, sorry for hijacking your thread but every once in a while you have to squash a bug.

quote:

Starmetal, sorry for hijacking your thread

No you're not. Asswipes like you are a dime a dozen and never sorry for anything.