45cal double rifle

opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com

07 May 2009, 07:06

Duane Wiebe

Don't really about the frame you mention, but shotgun frames usually assume "shotgun" pressures. Here's one I built on a 20 ga LC Smith frame, but stayed in the safe zone with factory 45-70..Firing pins were bushed to center fire rifle specs..And...last year shot three pigs with one shot! No kiddin' have a witness!

07 May 2009, 12:08

N E 450 No2

quote:
Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
Don't really about the frame you mention, but shotgun frames usually assume "shotgun" pressures. Here's one I built on a 20 ga LC Smith frame, but stayed in the safe zone with factory 45-70..Firing pins were bushed to center fire rifle specs..And...last year shot three pigs with one shot! No kiddin' have a witness!

Nice looking double.

For a fun NA Double, standard pressure 45/70 is a good cartridge.

11 May 2009, 06:00

J Bennett

Duane

How much have you shot the LC 45-70?
Has it come off face any?
I have a 20 just like yours but considered the single forward lump/hook and hinge pin to be a little small. What are your thoughts?
Thanks

James

12 May 2009, 05:50

Duane Wiebe

No problems so far..I did spot in the face and did the hingepin stuff. The strength of the LC lies in the distance apart between the hinge C/L is to the lock up...there is very little pressure on the lock up...with underlugs, the lock up to hinge is pretty short!

I.E. the further apart, the better. I've fired perhaps 200 rounds all together.

12 May 2009, 17:54

J Bennett

Duane

Thank you for your reply.

That is one beautiful set up. I can only assume that it handles superb. Weight and balance of these little LC's are great before your magic.

What type of hinge pin (stuff) did you do?
Thanks again.

James

12 May 2009, 18:20

TC1

Duane, what a beautiful rifle!

3 pigs in one shot? Around here we call that a redneck triple

HA!

Thanks for posting that.

Terry

13 May 2009, 03:27

Duane Wiebe

quote:
Originally posted by J Bennett:
Duane

Thank you for your reply.

That is one beautiful set up. I can only assume that it handles superb. Weight and balance of these little LC's are great before your magic.

What type of hinge pin (stuff) did you do?
Thanks again.

Well, as you probably know, the hinge pin on an LC is a taper pin...forget what number off hand and it's held in place by two smaller taperpins at 90 to the bore...so after needed scraping/filing to face (not much needed here), drive out all the pins, then with the reamer, start cleaning up the hole.

I clamp the barrels tightly against the face while doing that...of course, in this case, I had to keep switching barrels back and forth so they would fit the same.

After everything's cleaned up, stuff in a pin and test...might drive it in a little tighter (doesn't take much)...then the small pins, then drill for the cocking rods...and that's about all there's to it!

13 May 2009, 09:37

vigillinus

Like that elegant H&H style lever to remove the locks ... if my eyes do not deceive me.

13 May 2009, 18:02

J Bennett

Duane

In other words you installed a new hinge pin to compensate for fitting of multiple barrels. I thought you may have used a special pin or heat treat.

Thanks again. Your time and knowledge is greatly appreciated.

James

14 May 2009, 02:25

Duane Wiebe

I did have appropriate parts color case hardened.

14 May 2009, 06:30

Shack

Questions if you have time to fool with them..what grade of L.C. Smith? Did you keep the original forearm? Was there a custom case done for it?

What kind of feel would you have for the Win .348 in a piece like that?

And, is it for sale? If not and you saw a gun like it for sale, how much do you think it might go for? That's intended as sort of a diplomatic way of asking...

Anyhow, it's beautiful and there's just something cool about a custom build..almost like a one of one.

14 May 2009, 20:04

Duane Wiebe

Well, this is actually a two barrel set...One in 45-70 and the other in 20ga. Started life out as a "Ideal" grade, has ejectors.

Just about everything is custom made, I have two fore ends..the one for shogun is a splinter style (There are some photos on my website)

348 would be cool! Were I to take a closer look at that, I'd probably CONSIDER standard frame rather than FW.

For sale? Well, once heard a guy say "Everything I have is for sale", but I have praticular plans to sell.

I don't know what I would charge to do this again..but it would be plenty spendy...never , kept track of time...was a "5 year plan"

Never had a case made for it, I use a Kalispel case made to my dimensiions (They used to do that!)

14 May 2009, 21:09

Shack

Duane, I have a Parker Trojan conversion done in 30-30 (already mentioned on another thread here). The forearm is original and no extra shotgun barrels. It's a sleeved job so parts of the original barrels were used. The stock is new and matches the forearm. An old Parker hard case was re-habilitated and french fitted. Barrels permanently regulated so custom ammo needed. Under $5K and I thought a bargain.

The .348 just seems such a good choice...30-06 energy level in a rimmed cartridge. If I ever did such a thing I believe if possible I'd want to build it around factory ammo and not have to get into handloads.

15 May 2009, 03:15

Duane Wiebe

Sounds nice..For something like a 348, I'd like to see a bit more metal on the receiver balls...dunno...I'd like to hear from others that may have seen any 348 conversions.

I think a 21 would work, but who's going to experiment?

15 May 2009, 05:38

ForrestB

quote:
Originally posted by Shack:
And, is it for sale? If not and you saw a gun like it for sale, how much do you think it might go for? That's intended as sort of a diplomatic way of asking...

I've been scheming for this little combo ever since I saw it in the white. I'd appreciate it if Duane didn't know there might be other bidders lurking about.

15 May 2009, 06:35

Shack

Don't worry...I ain't about to mess with another man's true love or his gun...so I'll just print out a picture and use it as a pin-up...unless of course the wedding gets called off...

Seriously, Galazan is doing doubles based on their re-designed beefed up 21s. That was covered here. Otherwise it would be sacrilege to chop up an original Model 21 for this or any purpose.

I wonder how in theory you draw the line on what pressures for older shotguns?

15 May 2009, 08:57

ForrestB

A 348 Win double rifle built on the Galazan Model 21 frame with a set of 16 gauge barrels would a neat package suitable for just about anything in North America.

I can't afford to be thinking about this stuff right now.

16 May 2009, 01:32

Shack

Here is a pretty good discussion of the .348 complete with ballistics and bullet choices -

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/model71.htm.

Note the size difference shown between the .30-30 and the .348. The brass is much wider at the base. In rating the cartridge they say it's somewhere less than the .350 Rem Mag and about the equal to the rimless .358. I assume the Model 71 built for the .348 was supposed to be the tubular feed counterpart of the more common Model 88 built for the .358.

Anyway, I tend to agree on the need for a bit more metal in a shotgun conversion and I think I would want a fairly heavy frame and for that matter a nice thick grip. The skinny pistol grip area is the one real complaint I have about that stock on my custom Parker .30-30. It was built to copy original Parker stocks, and as those who know the Parker are aware of, the stocks tended to be very thin.

Unfortunately I didn't see pressures mentioned anywhere.

16 May 2009, 05:23

vigillinus

Actually Shack you have it the wrong way round, the Model 88 .358 arguably was an effort to make a box magazine counterpart of the 71 in .348 which preceded the 88 by many years - and which is still thought by many to be an incomparably more elegant rifle.

16 May 2009, 08:30

Duane Wiebe

quote:
Originally posted by vigillinus:
Like that elegant H&H style lever to remove the locks ... if my eyes do not deceive me.

Yes, I got a little tricky with the sideplates...here's a close up: