I am in the process of opening a barrel channel for my first bedding job. And I was looking at it and remembering of advertisements for guns where they are proud of the fact that the barrel is completely free floated.
If it is so great, why not do it all the time? It would certainly be easier to just open up the channel to where it doesn't touch the barrel at all and be done with it.
I have no plans of doing that on this gun, I'm just asking.
Thanks.

You're in the process of opening the barrel channel, but have no plans on free floating the barrel. Why not?

quote:

If it is so great, why not do it all the time?

It IS done mostly all the time, on guns requiring precision bullet placement.

full bedding, full floated, pressure point bedding -- all of them do ONE THING

make the rifle repeat, shot of shot, exactly the same way.

Some guys want it one way, some the other, sometimes you try the other way...

it all works

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:
You're in the process of opening the barrel channel, but have no plans on free floating the barrel. Why not?

quote:

If it is so great, why not do it all the time?

It IS done mostly all the time, on guns requiring precision bullet placement.

I am bedding it a few inches forward of the action. I have seen a few 1000yd bench competitors do it this way. But more importantly, the gunsmith who has been kind enough to teach me a few things does it this way. He produces rifles with outstanding accuracy. It may not be the best way, or the only right way, but it works really well for him. I'll do things his way until I can get some proficiency at what I am doing. Then I may try some other things.

I think you have answered the question for me.
Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
full bedding, full floated, pressure point bedding -- all of them do ONE THING

make the rifle repeat, shot of shot, exactly the same way.

Some guys want it one way, some the other, sometimes you try the other way...

it all works

A down side to free floating a barrel is that it can allow debris to enter the barrel channel. In a hunting situation this could happen fairly easily creating uneven pressure on the barrel and outweighing any benefit you might have gained.

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:
I am bedding it a few inches forward of the action. I have seen a few 1000yd bench competitors do it this way. But more importantly, the gunsmith who has been kind enough to teach me a few things does it this way. He produces rifles with outstanding accuracy. It may not be the best way, or the only right way, but it works really well for him. I'll do things his way until I can get some proficiency at what I am doing. Then I may try some other things.

When I free float a barrel, I let the bedding flow forward under the cylinder portion of the barrel, but from the transition point forward, there is no contact. And I float them more than a dollar bills width so dirt and debris doesn't create any pressure problems.

quote:

When I free float a barrel, I let the bedding flow forward under the cylinder portion of the barrel, but from the transition point forward, there is no contact. And I float them more than a dollar bills width so dirt and debris doesn't create any pressure problems

+1

quote:

A down side to free floating a barrel is that it can allow debris to enter the barrel channel.

That I will vouch for! But there is a way around it - the soldered on sling swivel just in front of the fore-end. It means one can't use the sling to tension the hold during firing.

Free floated barrels are the norm for precision rifles simply because it is the most consistent. Freefloated barrels are popular on rough usage hunting rifles for the same reason. If the entrance of debris into the barrel channel is perceived as a problem, it is easily prevented with a grease or wax seal. I will always float a working rifle if I am bedding the receiver unless it is requested that I not do so.
On my own rifles, all are floated with a couple of exceptions.
The Lee Enfields are bedded with a pressure point because I've found that to be the best way to control vertical.
The trapdoor Springfields are bedded because it just seems proper.
A fairly decent stock on a Model 70 custom is fully bedded for show because that's what people want to see. In this case I accept that accuracy and consistency are compromised for appearances! Regards, Bill

I wasn't trying to crap on free floating a barrel. Free floating a barrel is MUCH better than a poor inletting job and has it's place. It has been shown to work very well to prevent barrel pressure issues. Though there are times, depending on the barrel where appropriate barrel pressure is the answer to a particular rifle's accuracy issues.

What I stated about debris is a valid issue however. This is the reason factory free floating is done so you could drive a fork lift under the barrel (tongue in cheek).

Bill, the wax or grease seal is something I had not heard of and sounds like it would eliminate the issue all together. Thank you for the, new to me, information.

To imply that a fully bedded barrel is just "for show" as Bill states and that you must "accept that accuracy and consistency are compromised for appearances"...well I beg to differ. Glass bedding a barrel is fully bedding a barrel and it has been shown to work very well. When done properly a wood to metal, fully bedded or pillar bedded stock works equally well. Jeffeosso has it right about it being an opinion issue in practical use.

If we are talking about a gun trying to shoot a 1/4 MOA than I'll agree with you about the compromise in accuracy due to movement of the wood with temperature and humidity. If this is the case however, we are talking about a heavy bench rest gun and not the hunting gun that I was referring to. In practical use, this compromise is not an issue.

This is an interesting thread of differing opinions. I'd like to hear more and again I am not trying to start a, "mine is better than yours" argument. I know that everyone does it the "best way" don't they? I KNOW that I Do...

Good point, Trez: A free floated barrel is a piece of cake for anyone. A properly bedded barrel calls for art and experience As far as using grease of wax...well this makes no sense inasmuch as grease or wax will probably not compress...yeah...may "ooze"

I'm not trying to get into a fray. The "free floaters" will never be convinced and the "properly bedded" when asked to free float will "be busy that day"

When I see experienced people disagreeing about the same subject I usually figure there may be more than one right answer. Anyway......

What about really heavy barrels? This barrel I'm working on isn't that heavy, but it is a lot heavier than the one I took off.

The grease or wax was not my idea but simply a passing along of the method used on the Kleingunther rifles. At first glance they appeared closely bedded but, upon closer inspection, were revealed to have what appeared to be a beeswax concoction, nicely colored, filling the gap in what was actually a floated barrel. Later on, when I was concerned obout water getting in the gap, I started doing the same thing. It won't last forever but it will last for a ten day hunt in bad conditions.
Now, I know a fully bedded barrel can shoot just fine for hunting and have some that do. I also know they can shift point of impact more readily than a floated barrel. I also know a floated barrel is more sensitive to receiver bedding error.
To explain where I'm coming from, I started out as an "accuracy first" gunsmith and started in the benchrest arena. Consequently, I did lean toward the floating barrel as an accuracy tool. This was, of course, because it was absolutely the best way to build one. Later on, when I was called upon to rebarrel finely built custom rifles, I had to bed those barrels full length by hand and was pleased they shot as well as they did. I always felt, however, they would have shot even better had they been glassed and floated. This is why I say accuracy and consistency are compromised for appearances. I can build a half minute rifle with a free floating barrel which will shoot a half minute today, tomorrow, and next week. It will shoot the same hot or cold. I can bed one by hand and maybe get it to shoot half minute today but I won't be promising tommorow and don't talk to me about next week. Likewise, I'll feel less than confident with temperature or hummidity changes; the kind of temperature and humidity changes we see every year between the first of September and the end of November.
So, if somebody wants to see a nicely fitted bedded barrel, I'll do that but if they want the best accuracy under all conditions, I wouldn't.
There are some exceptions. I don't believe a Ruger No.1, for instance, will shoot particularily well with a floated barrel and prefer to bed those closely and with a slight upward pressure. This way, they will shoot better but are, nonetheless, sensitive to holding and/or conditions compared to a bedded/floated bolt gun.
I like finely crafted custom rifles and admire those who can produce them but I don't believe the fully bedded by hand rifle is the perfect answer to the requirement for a rifle which maintains accuracy and consistency in adverse conditions. It can be pretty darn good but it won't be the best.
Now, watch some guy show up at the next "F" class match I attend and hand me my butt on a platter whilst shooting a fully handbedded Model 70 with a Lyman Targetspot scope! Regards, Bill.