I have a mint .348 Model 71 Winchester that my Dad use to hunt with. I also have about 20 boxes of Silver Tip ammo for it that has been in the gun safe for 40 years. Any problems shooting this ammo and then reloading the brass?

Thanks,

TH

Tear it up, If you reload dont shoot to much of the factory ammo.Its safe for sure
but the ammo in factory form is scarce.
You have a nice rifle if its mint. Keep reloading for it the factory silver tips in the original boxes are worth some money these days.

Old modern powder ammo is generally safe to use if it was properly stored. You should inspect it first, if it has green corrosion it is suspect.

Old black powder and corrosive powder or corrosive primer ammo is a different matter.

The brass is probably tarnished after all these years, I would clean it with a brite boy sponge first, and dispose of any suspect rounds.

Model 71 Winchesters are neat rifles.

quote:

the ammo in factory form is scarce

I disagree.
Winchester currently makes it and at the very least, one wholesaler will have it on hand pretty much all the time.

http://www.cliffsgunsmithing.com/Catalog_Win_AmmoR3.htm

Go ahead and shoot up your old ammo and then you can reload. If the part number is X3481 or X3483 or something, then it is modern stuff.

-Spencer

If the ammo is new old stock and the boxes are cherry, it might have some value to collectors.

quote:

Originally posted by Trouthunter:
I have a mint .348 Model 71 Winchester that my Dad use to hunt with.

You lucky devil you. Im insanely jealous! Im a big fan of the model 71. Just havent got around to getting one myself. Enjoy it!

If it's the 250 grain load, I'd use it sparingly, then reload. On the other hand if it's the 200 grain load, sell it for all you can on eBay because it can be replaced.
Barnes and North Fork still make 250s in .348", and NF makes a 270 grain bullet I hope to try very soon.

The last big bore lever gun made, the Winchester Model 71 is cool, way cool.

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:
Old modern powder ammo is generally safe to use if it was properly stored. You should inspect it first, if it has green corrosion it is suspect.

Old black powder and corrosive powder or corrosive primer ammo is a different matter.

The brass is probably tarnished after all these years, I would clean it with a brite boy sponge first, and dispose of any suspect rounds.

Model 71 Winchesters are neat rifles.

ANY ammo that has been stored in a cool, dry environment has a good chance of being good for an indefinite period of time. The idea that ammo with corrosive primers is suspect is totally WRONG! The reason why it took Army Ordnance over 30 years to start using noncorrosive primers in small-arms ammo is that they were not convinced that noncorrosive primers were as stable in long-term storage as corrosive primers!

I have personally fired .45 ACP ball ammo headstamped FA 18, which was made at the time of WWI. It was perfectly within specs, and of course had corrosive priming.

There should be absolutely no reason not to shoot your .348 factory ammo. If you're especially lucky, your father might just have stocked up on 250-grain loads, which are much better than the 200-grain load for anything bigger than deer with the .348!

El Deguello,

I have used corrosive primed military surplus ammo in the past. I am not implying it shouldn't or cannot be used. Prudence dictates inspection of this ammo before use. "Proper" storage is a big factor, the military took great efforts to store ammuntition properly. Once it transfered to civilian hands it became an unknown, and it may or may not have been stored properly, which includes low humidity storage environment. I have seen old ammo that falls into both camps perfectly safe to fire, and the other extreme just a hazmat issue. Inspection is the best way to determine what condition its in.

Black powder ammo and corrosive powders is really old stuff, pre WWI usually and if you want to use it more power to you, for me its cartridge collection stuff.

My bust is my general statement on this, ammo that was was manufacured in the 1800's even late is all pretty suspect stuff. I have seen 45-60, 45-70 and 8mm Lebel ammo I simply wouldn't use, how it was stored over the years I haven't a clue, and I will error on the side of caution. I suspect that many of the old British Nitro rounds from the turn of the last century are similar, and prudence is warranted.
I will add that these old rounds suffer from two disadvantages, old ammo, and old guns with softer steel, which do not have the safety margin designed into them like modern firearms. ( neither apply to this 348 Win ).

Back on the subject of the thread. 40 year old 348 WIn ammo is none of the bad stuff above, it's 1960's manufactured. I would still inspect it, if it has been stored in high humidity it is very possible it has developed green crud (TEXAS?), and eyeballing the ammo is the best way to tell.

I am in no way suggesting old ammo is problematic, I use it but a little effort on knowing what your using is the smart and safe course.

excellent round, brass is on midway

jeffe

In MY rifles, The "key" to whether old ammo should be used is, as Schromf said, inspection.

Unless one has owned the ammo himself since it was first made, a person has NO way of knowing how it has been stored. BUT, he CAN look at it and tell if the brass is deteriorating (verdigris, stc.)

If there are rough, dull looking dark colored, or green, or reddish, splotches on the brass case walls, those are places the brass has chemically changed and the change is always for the worse, never for the better. Those splotchs are areas of brass that are now less strong than the unchanged other parts of the brass. Whether the changes extend all the way through the case cannot be told by just looking at it. Generally, they do not go clear through the brass, and again generally the brass MAY be safe to fire (once) with factory loads.

BUT, it is not the GENERAL round that hurts you or your gun. It is that one specific exception in several hundred or several thousand that does the damage. So, in MY guns, that badly discoloured brass is not fired, regardless how I believe the ammo may have been stored.

After all, new brass is available, and relatively cheap. In my book, penny-wise and pound-foolish is not a good strategy for investing either one's money or their safety.

I am not trying to hijack this thread, but I fancy myself as a cartridge collector ( half assed at best ). I have some old ammo which, I suspect must have been corrosive, where the brass is thin, paper thin, corroded from the inside, and extremely brittle. I am not sure what chemical process went on over the years to get it that way, and I admit I haven't pulled it apart. But its so thin you can crush it between your fingers if you try. It is deceiving cause it is so brittle, but thin and brittle is bad news, I place this in the same category as an old paper wrapped round, display purposes only.

quote:

I have used corrosive primed military surplus ammo in the past. I am not implying it shouldn't or cannot be used. Prudence dictates inspection of this ammo before use. "Proper" storage is a big factor, the military took great efforts to store ammuntition properly.

You're absolutely right, of course. My point was that for a long period of time, the corrosive primers (at least, OUR corrosive primers) were considered to be MORE stable in long-term storage than the noncorrosive type. Whether they actually were more stable is another question!

Schromf, you say you are a collector of sorts, 10 or so years ago I came across a couple of boxes of .348 at a flea market. One is Peters 150 gr. with the cellophane still on the box. The other is a full box of Winchester that has been opened but in good shape. I stuck them in a draw when I got them and pretty much forgot about them until I read this post, any collector value to anyone or wouldn't you know. thanks a lot.

Thanks for the advice, it's appreciated. I think I'll hold on to the boxes of original ammo and reload some of the boxes of empties that I have.

Many Thanks,

TH

I really don't know. I am really a pack rat, and I occasionally will buy a round or two at a gun show, or I will horse trade something with my gunsmith friends ( if they just don't give me a round ).

Like I said I am really half assed about my collecting, I don't even have all the rounds in the same place, they are scattered between my garage, my workshop, and my reloading room. One of these days when I have a lot more spare time than I currently do I was planning on doing a cartridge board, something decorative I could hang in the reloading room. Bottom line is now if I see something I don't have I pick it up and add it to the collection, I don't have it cataloged, just a running list in my head. I do have a good memory though and if I see something I don't have I pick it up and add it to the collection ( of sorts ).

Someone who had more time could do a lot more with this, and dollars isn't really the driver, some of these old rounds you just never see, and when you do a buck or two will secure them, its just finding them. Really it is probably the top reason I go to gun shows anymore, gives me something to keep my open for, when the show is a tank.