Guys I want your advice in building the long range rifle I have been picking your brains about. I talked to a gunsmith that told me he wanted to use the following:
- 1909 Argentine mauser action
- Douglas 26" barrel with muzzle break (not sure if it would be intergral)
- McMillan or HS Prec Tactical stock

Please give me your thoughts and what I should watch out for, since this is the first gun I have ever had built. Thanks.

That Mauser action is going to have to be modified to get a 30-378 Weatherby to fit let alone feed. I'd buy a after market action in Mag length. I'd get a Stillers Tac 300 or 338.

That said My buddy has a 30-378 built on a Rem M30 with a 1-14 twist to shoot 115 gr bullets right at 4000 FPS It is the end all be all of varmint rifles. This rifle was chambered in Roy's shop in the late 60's

A 300 Dakota would be an easier round to accommodate as it is a 30-06 length. Granted you lose about 300 to 400 FPS but you also are not burning near as much powder.

Have you looked at the Lapua?

.338 Lapua is one that I would most definitely consider

I have considered a 338 lapua, 338 edge, 338 rum but then I saw the 30-378. I have tons of .308 bullets and love the ballistics of the 30-378, so I wanted to go that direction, but my mind is definitely not made up. Why would you go with the 338 lapua?

I would not use a standard length Mauser action for any of those cartridges. There are much more suitable choices e.g. Remington 700, CZ-550 etc.

For a rifle you are going to plow a bunch of $$$ into, I would suggest a different round. The 30-378 is a bit of a barrel burner.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/30378wmag.html

For the reason stated above. The 30-378 is a very overbore cartridge and is not as efficient as it could be.

The .338 lapua Sends a 250 gr bullet down range faster then the 30-378 can send a 200 gr. and with it's momentum will have more energy on impact at extended range. It has less wind drift which is key in long range shooting
On top of that, In a 250 gr bullet it has the same ballistic path as a 50 BMG.

It's also a shorter case (1/4") making it a bit easier to fit in a standard length action. But there is no way I would build a magnum rifle on a standard length platform Especially when there are such great factory and aftermarket actions out there.

What a good Argentine action going to cost. $500 for a clean action with bottom metal? Then add in the action work and parts and you are right at a grand easy maybe more considering the smith. A Tac .338 is $995 add a trigger and your done.

Here's another question. How much are you expecting to spend on this project?

I ask because there are a number of stock rifles out there that can be chambered in 30-378 that are built by the custom shops.
McMillian, Rem Custom shop, Dakota Longbow, H-S Precision, Bohica arms which will fit a standard AR 15 lower!!!!!
There are options

I would like to stay as cheap as possible, while keeping quality as high as possible My budget is $1500. I figure I can pillar bed and do minor adjustments to the trigger.

Well Either that smith is not going to do much to the action or he's working very cheep.
Or that action he has he will sell you dirt cheep.

Something is not adding up. But if he can get the job done for $1500 Great. I'd expect to pay closer to 3K for a rifle like that.

I would second what kcstott just wrote.

For the most part, if you pay peanuts . . . . you get monkeys.

JMO

quote:

The 30-378 is a bit of a barrel burner.

Yep, and barrels are easily five bills and another three to put one on...

quote:

Originally posted by Toomany Tools:
I would not use a standard length Mauser action for any of those cartridges. There are much more suitable choices e.g. Remington 700, CZ-550 etc.

Completely agree.

IMO, you'll be money and performance ahead to find a Rem 700 in 300 ultramag (assuming you want a souped up .30 cal).

Further.....I'd find another smith too. I can't believe he's going to build a .30-378 on an argentine!

1909 for a 30-378?
HE!! no ..
1: the action aint hard enough (fine, heat treat it)
2: the action aint long enough (fine, cut it up)
3: the cut up action aint fit for that PRESSURE round (fine, we heat treated it right?)
4: the BOLT THRUST is INSANE as compared to a .473 casehead (to get the order of magnitude difference, 3100PSI bolt thrust vs 5700PSI bolt thrust)
4a (some lesron that can almost SPELL bolt thrust might wade in with his buddies' opinion)
5: the bottom metal WILL NOT WORK without being cut the shreads and recreated
6: it will not FEED unless single stack, which means 2+1 rounds OR an even more "wild" version of 5
7: by the time you have put all this effort into hacking a 1909 into mincemeat, tig welding it up, weakening it to the point of failure, heat treating it, and making a custom bottom metal, you could have ...

bought a cz550 416 rigby action, rebarrel, and use a cz synthetic stock, and have the whole gun for less than the price of what a REAL gunsmith, with the skills to make it, would charge ...

or a McMillan Brothers action.

1909 AINT the right action for this one, fellas

I talked to him earlier and he told me that he couldnt make a 30-378. That is why I am posing all these questions to you guys because I don't know what is possible. As for the $1500, that is what I WANT to spend. That is not the amount the gunsmith told me it would cost. I am trying to figure everything out now, with your help, so I don't look back and say :I wish I would have ...."

1500 really won't cover your barrel, stock, bluing/coating, reamer, bedded and muzzlebrake ... much less the action and the gunsmith charges

a stock would be about 500
a barrel about 300
bluing about 200
reamer about 150
bedding about 200
brake about 200 installed

double that, and you could do it on a cz .. triple or more for a mauser .. which would be, in my opinion, a pipebomb

or
cz for 900
keep the stock, do a barrel, paint it (aint gunna matter as you will burn the barrel out)
bedded it
etc//// might could do it on a shoestring for 2K ...

Get a good idea of what you want first.
Is it going to be a tactical style, express, or just plain old hunting style? That will determine a good portion of cost. But still for a built rifle you're looking at 3K minimum and then only with a composite stock. Good wood can cost more then complete rifles on a regular basis.

Maybe you should look at an off the shelf 300 win mag. Considering your budget that is a more realistic option. and you won't miss 400 FPS.
Ammo is available nearly every where and at half the cost of Weatherby ammo.

Magnum rifle magnum action

Or the 300 Remington ultra Mag 200 gr at 3100 fps is not much slower then a 30-378

M700 CDL in 300 Rem Ultra mag is $959 MSRP

I've been mulling a long range project for the last couple months myself. I also own several rifles built off Mauser actions.

My advice to you would be to take your $1500 and buy a used Remington Sendero in .300RUM and save up for a good scope. If you really want to reach way out there, you'll likely need to spend $500+ for good glass. I would also advise spending a few hundred more for a good spotting scope and laser range finder.

Pick up a used Remington or Savage somewhere and pay a qualified 'smith to go through it and make it run correctly. I understand that you want what you want and you really like the 30-378, however don't fall in love with it. There's a few other cartridges out there that do the same thing that you might could find a good deal on.

Whatever you do, DON'T BUILD THIS RIFLE ON A MAUSER. You will not accomplish what you want to do for $1500. Trust me on that. I love Mausers, but they're like a boat or a motorcycle - once you open one up, you'll never stop spending money on it.

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
I talked to a gunsmith that told me he wanted to use the following:
- 1909 Argentine mauser action

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
I talked to him earlier and he told me that he couldnt make a 30-378.

Rolltop,
The gunsmith I talked to is an older gentleman and must have missed what I said when we talked for the first time. The second time we talked he mentioned it wouldnt work. Feel free to use your comments elsewhere if you aren't going to be helpful.

As for the rest of you that have been VERY helpful, should I find a Sendero in 300 RUM and have a smith go through it? What would it cost for him to "go through it?" Also, I have a Browning A-bolt 300 wsm that I have been toying with for a while now. Should I just spend the money on it and have the lugs lapped, etc?

If you have your heart set on a mauser action then thats what i would build on just not the 30-378 I would go with a .308 Norma Mag and use a good cut rifled barrel like Brux then buy an adjustable trigger and a Bell and Carlson Medalist stock to put it all in. My action choice would probably be a VZ24 though. This you can build on your budget.

James

Thanks Weaveman. What would be the best long range cartridge the 1909 Argentine could handle?
I am thinking of just saving up another year to be able to build the "dream" long range gun. I want it to reach out and touch things, but also be as light as possible. I really like this carbon 300wsm. No clue how much it would cost to build though.

I have a 1909 in 308 Norma Mag. ballisticly its a 30-06 length 300 Win Mag I have had no set back in it shooting some stout loads. But to be safe and for peace of mind if I used a 1909 I would have it heat treated which will incur a little more expense. Since you stated you where on a budget I would go with the VZ24 besides being able to get one for under $200 you wouldnt have to worry about heat treating which alot of guys dont but its cheap insurance and peace of mind.

James

quote:

f I used a 1909 I would have it heat treated which will incur a little more expense.

FYI.....the last time I purchased heat treating of a Mauser action it was $150 per lot......and if you send one action it's still $150 for that single action.

Possibly another source than the one I have used would be less costly.

Midway emailed me a delivery date of January 25 2010 for availability (they sell bridges too I think) of the Zastava actions and they come with altered bolt handles, hinged bottom metal, drilled and tapped, adjustable trigger, scope worthy safety, blued, and do not require heat treating.

All this for about $100 more than a bare VZ-24 action. Add a bit more for the .375 H*H length action if you want .300 Weatherby performance.

If your set on the 30-378 WBY, why not just buy the Accumark, you can pick them up ready to go for the 1500 price range without all the hassle and they are very good LR shooters.

Jimmy,
I didn't know at the time that they were such barrel burners. I am now considering a 338 edge. Are they also barrel burners?

Seconding Jimmy264. Check out an Accumark. I just picked one in 338-378 up at a steal for $1100, the place had gone out of business. My dad has one in 30-378 and has killed elk out past 800 yards.

Would an accumark 30-378 shoot sub moa out of the box? Also, would I need to pillar bed, lap lugs, target crown the rifle or is it already done in the factory?

quote:

Originally posted by MRAMSAY10:
Would an accumark 30-378 shoot sub moa out of the box? Also, would I need to pillar bed, lap lugs, target crown the rifle or is it already done in the factory?

You can get all that in the Wby Custom Shop if you select a Krieger cut rifling barrel but it will cost plenty.

You don't need pillar bedding if it is an Accumark because of aluminium bedding block. But for best results they should still be bedded.

MRAMSAY10
I have owned both the 30-378 and the 338-378 and both were MOA guns out of the box with good ammo.
You ask if it will be sub MOA, well the way I look at it any gun that will shoot MOA is more than enough for a hunting rifle.
In a hunting condition, can you shoot sub-MOA?
Not trying to bust your balls just sayin, in your price range the Accumark would be the way to go and then maybe do a bit of tweakin if the gun needs it. Good luck.

I have a .338-378 and it is a re-barreled Weatherby Accumark. I would recommend the Weatherby action. It is plenty accurate for deer shooting well past 600 yards. I also have a rifle on an Argentine 1909 Mauser action. I may be overly conservative but it is chambered for the 7X57 cartridge and I do not even load it with hot loads. I've got quite a bit of $$$ in this rifle and want to be sure the action is not damaged.

Jimmy,
I take no offense to that. THanks for the review of the rifles. Depending on conditions I can make shots hit their target. I only take the sure shots. That is why I take my little camcorder so if I can't safely make a shot, I can shoot the animal with something

Iowa,
Thanks for the input on both. I have to admit the Argentine has my attention, yet I was told that it might be more difficult finding a cheap one with the matching mag box etc. I would have to buy and part out an old rifle, which just doesn't seem right