How strong are the '41-'45 98 actions compared to other military 98s? I see a lot of comments about WW1 vs. late 30s, etc. but not as much as the rifles built after WWII started. I was thinking that I had read long ago that the late 30s were the best when new, but they saw the hardest abuse during the war. By the end of the war the focus was on quantity vs. quality. (My 6.5 Gibbs is on a byf45 action. Neither has the X for captured.) Any metal concerns if I open it up and rebarrel to .375 H&H? Anything else I should look out for?

Thanks in advance!

Larry

My first center fire rifle was a 8x57 1944.. i was all of either 7 or 8.

Today, I would not TOUCH a german 1945 action to so anything but hang on the wall.

the 1944s, I would keep in the low pressure section .. 9,3x57,9x57, 8x57, 7x57 .. that realm

I fully realize that some 44's are fine... and some arent.. but I don't think it would be worth the risk.

a 43 and back? sure enough good stuff...

a date code rather than stamp? lt me at it!!

i wouldn't waste a cent to make a 44 or 45 into a 375 HH, sorry... sell it down the rode and get a vz, a 1908, or 1909

jeffe

Your 1941 AX was made by ERMA in Erfurt, Germany. Even though the war wasn't going particularly well for Germany, the Allies had not started their bombing raids yet.

Quality and heat treatment should be fine, if it is in original condition. Wartime wear and tear may prove it to be otherwise.

I personally do not recommend opening any standard length military 98 to fit any of the magnum length cartridges. That is what the magnum length actions are for. I would suggest a standard length cartridge such as the 9.3x62.

If you must use the .375, then one of the post war commercial FN actions is a better choice.

I have a custom 35 whelen built on a erma mauser. And I belive the date stamp is 1942. I have put some prety stiff loads through her and and it is plenty strong. ,,,tj3006

It seems I always have to be different and was thinking pretty serious about a .35 Whelen (or AI). Then I had this crazy thought about a .375 H&H...a 416 Taylor even rattled around in there a little, along with a .338 Gibbs. I'm probably thinking either .375 Hawk or just stay with the .35 Whelen.

I'm wanting this to be a shooter for a close range elk rifle here in the Oregon jungle....and I know the average elk won't know the difference in what I choose.

Final question...there was a comment in there about my byf45 that I have in a 6.5 Gibbs. This was the last rifle my granddad made. He was the stockman...another old gunsmith friend of his did the metal work. I never really questioned the safety of the action because the metal guy probably barreled thousands of actions in his day and several hundred of those were various Gibbs. I had a .240 Gibbs he did 20+ years ago. Now I find out that the later WWII actions aren't to great. With the lower bolt thrust of the Gibbs, and the fact that it's already had a bunch of ammo through it, what is the REAL threat to continued use of this thing. (other than having a bolt stuck in my face someday)(actually happened to a friend of mine with a brand new Browning A-Bolt with factory ammo)

Thanks again!

Late war German steel could very well have been made from anything they could melt down. Also, the staff in the weapons factories wasn't wasting too much time heat treating, during those relaxing moments between bombing raids.

1944 and 45 German mausers are known as "last-ditch" rifles. Anything is possible, from simple lug-setback to catastrophic failure.

Now I'm thinking I should just take the 6.5 Gibbs barrel (fluted #6 Douglas) and put it on the 41ax action...AND...just go buy a decent stainless steel .375 or whatever.

That makes a whole lot of sense, especially if you want to continue using that barrel and cartridge. The stock may fit as well.

I can't sit still long...I've already got the '45 6.5 Gibbs action out of the stock and am looking at what all it will take to make her work with the '41 action. The action looks like it will fit pretty decently, but how much will the barrel have to be set back to work correctly? I assume unless I'm the luckiest guy on the planet that just screwing the barrel on the '41 action and the headspace being correct will never happen...especially if I want the barrel flutes (7 of 'em) to sit square.

The trigger guard/magazine box on the '41 doesn't fit quite as well as the '45, so will probably just use the '45 box.

And the old guy did a great job on the original Mauser trigger and now that's out the window...but that's why they sell Timneys.

Thanks for all the input guys...this is a great site.

PS...How important is it to square the face of an action before putting a barrel on?

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5Gibbs:
It seems I always have to be different and was thinking pretty serious about a .35 Whelen (or AI). Then I had this crazy thought about a .375 H&H...a 416 Taylor even rattled around in there a little, along with a .338 Gibbs. I'm probably thinking either .375 Hawk or just stay with the .35 Whelen.

I'm wanting this to be a shooter for a close range elk rifle here in the Oregon jungle....and I know the average elk won't know the difference in what I choose.

Final question...there was a comment in there about my byf45 that I have in a 6.5 Gibbs. This was the last rifle my granddad made. He was the stockman...another old gunsmith friend of his did the metal work. I never really questioned the safety of the action because the metal guy probably barreled thousands of actions in his day and several hundred of those were various Gibbs. I had a .240 Gibbs he did 20+ years ago. Now I find out that the later WWII actions aren't to great. With the lower bolt thrust of the Gibbs, and the fact that it's already had a bunch of ammo through it, what is the REAL threat to continued use of this thing. (other than having a bolt stuck in my face someday)(actually happened to a friend of mine with a brand new Browning A-Bolt with factory ammo)

Thanks again!

Caterstrophic (sp) failure of your byf 45 action is most unlikely, I you have concernes take it to a good gunsmith and have him check it over for lug setback or cracking, if you get a clean bill of health keep shooting. The biggest worry with late war actions beside the sloppy tollorances is if it was hardened all the way through making it brittle,I have seen one of these ,it was found by a gunsmith when he drilled and tapped it for a scope mount (the reciever was scraped.

There's a whole pile of 1930's actions available for conversion and a lot of post war actions too. I wouldn't spend a dime on a 1944-1945 mauser.

I can find VZ-24 rifles 1935-1938 for $120 and would use one of them in a heartbeat over the late war specimens.....

it's your money....have at it.

quote:

Originally posted by darwinmauser:
Caterstrophic (sp) failure of your byf 45 action is most unlikely, I you have concernes take it to a good gunsmith and have him check it over for lug setback or cracking, if you get a clean bill of health keep shooting. The biggest worry with late war actions beside the sloppy tollorances is if it was hardened all the way through making it brittle,I have seen one of these ,it was found by a gunsmith when he drilled and tapped it for a scope mount (the reciever was scraped.

Sooo...just what would a gunsmith look for exactly. Magnaflux the bolt/action? Or just use a big magnifying glass and "try" to see if anything is questionable. Wouldn't I notice lug setback with either hard bolt opening, or at the least goofy headspacing either visible or noticeable when I resize the brass? I'm obviously a novice at this. Guess bottom line is this...when I'm poppin' prairie dogs, or trying to poke an antelope, the last thing I want to be thinking is if this thing is going to hold together. Now the thought of that might make me start flinching bigtime...

I'm still leaning towards swappin barrels to the '41 action and pedaling the '45 action to some guy that shoots cast bullets. Oh grandpa...why didn't you use a Remington or a Winchester or a ...

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5Gibbs:


Sooo...just what would a gunsmith look for exactly. Magnaflux the bolt/action? Or just use a big magnifying glass and "try" to see if anything is questionable. Wouldn't I notice lug setback with either hard bolt opening, or at the least goofy headspacing either visible or noticeable when I resize the brass? I'm obviously a novice at this. Guess bottom line is this...when I'm poppin' prairie dogs, or trying to poke an antelope, the last thing I want to be thinking is if this thing is going to hold together. Now the thought of that might make me start flinching bigtime...

I'm still leaning towards swappin barrels to the '41 action and pedaling the '45 action to some guy that shoots cast bullets. Oh grandpa...why didn't you use a Remington or a Winchester or a ...

A experianced gunsmith will know exactly what to look for and where to find it, you probably would notice something wrong if you had signifigant setback and seeing as you have not mentioned any problem I would say it a pretty good bet that all is well, but you seem determined to swap out the action and hey its your money


. With the lower bolt thrust of the Gibbs, and the fact that it's already had a bunch of ammo through it, what is the REAL threat to continued use of this thing. (other than having a bolt stuck in my face someday)(actually happened to a friend of mine with a brand new Browning A-Bolt with factory ammo)

seeing as you have already had a bunch of rounds through the rifle with no ill efects I think it has proved itself capable of withstanding the pressures of the cartridges you use and failure is not eminant unlike the browning ,how that passed proof testing is a mystery.
whatever you end up doing with the rifle ,happy shooting.

ps I would have thought the rifle would have some sentimental value as it was the last one your grandfather built.

quote:

Originally posted by darwinmauser:
ps I would have thought the rifle would have some sentimental value as it was the last one your grandfather built.

Thanks for your comments. (everyone elses too!) I do want to keep as much of the rifle as possible and I will have a couple of good 'smiths give me their opinion before I change anything. I've got several of my granddads projects...some completed and some he didn't get done and I'm finishing them. But he would want it done right though.

I probably should probably start a new post with this question...but it's along the same lines....

He used to shoot competitive high power (late 1940's & 1950's) with a Springfield 1903 (Springfield Armory #598674...obviously a low number '03). In the 60s he shortened the barrel, removed the rear peep sight and restocked it in a beautiful hunk of walnut. He had the receiver drilled for Weaver bases and put on a 4X scope. It's a wonderful shooter and beautiful rifle. He gave it to me 25 years ago and I have shot quite a few deer and coyotes with it. When I realized it was a lower number Springfield, I kinda quit shooting it as much. He shot 56 gr. of IMR-4350 w/ a Sierra 180 and a 50 gr. of IMR-4895 and a Hornady 150 gr...both are pretty much max. loads. It surely has had 5-10,000 rounds through it???

Sooo...did the early Springfields have soft metal or brittle metal or ??? Did they start off ok, then develop headspace issues??? Any help here would be appreciated too. I assume those that were going to "blow up" probably already have.

One last question...somewhere along the line he had it rebarreled. I don't know if it was when he sporterized it or when he was competitive shooting. The barrel has been shortened and there is a date stamp of 7 44 on the end. It has HS, then a stamping that looks like a flame on top of a "cartoon bomb" (round circle with a small box on top)(flame on top of that) Then the 7 44 code under that. (4 groove rifling) When I was younger I assumed it was a Springfield '03-A3 barrel, but it is has a sporting taper. Also, it has the chisel mark of where it probably originally was lined up with the action on the bottom of the barrel. Now that mark is just past the top (5/8 turn past it's old location)...as if it originally was on another rifle and then put on this action. There are no sights, but I assume the front one was removed when the barrel was shortened. (22.5" now) Anyone know what it is???

Thanks to all for educating me!

Your barrel was made by High Standard in July of 1944.

I have a High Standard on my Rock Island '03.

Rojelio