Bear with me, I know these are basic questions for most of you. After plenty of research, I have a few questions on soldering these parts to the barrel.

1. If using Brownells hi-force 44 solder (which flows at 475 degrees F) and a propane torch, how long does it take for the solder to flow? 10 seconds, 30 seconds, a couple of minutes?

2. How easy is it to tell if the solder is flowing underneath the ramp or band? Will some of it flow out the side?

3. Is using the hi force ribbon preferable? Brownells claims that the ribbon eliminates the requirement to tin the parts.

4. When heating the parts, do you heat all around (top, bottom, left and right side of the barrel)?

I plan to practice on a take off barrel, but I wanted to hear what the experts had to say.

I wouldn’t use Hiforce, just use soft solder. You only need Hiforce if hot bluing. Soft is way strong enough.
Tin everything, inside and out, thinly. If it won’t tin rub the solder on with steel wool.
Try not to put the flame directly onto fluxed areas, just let the heat slowly migrate along, you won’t need much.
Position your parts then flow the solder in.
Good idea to practice a lot first, good luck.

Metal is right , but it WOULD be embarrassing to have the sight base drop off if hot salt bluing were to be ever used.

I use a Harris product with is a fairly low temp silver bearing solder called "Stay Brite"

The flux with the Brownell's propduct is almost impossible to nuetralize...just keeps rusting and rusting! I don't use it anymore.

Tin all surfaces. A brass cleaning brush works well for inside the ramp...but flux charged steel wool is also a good way to go.

The hand held propane torch should work..I use acetelene, but you might try Mapp gas for a higher temp when using disposable containers.

Go solw as Metal suggets.....let the heat come up gradually...no need for a timer..whaever it takes

When everything flows, just apply the solder to the joint..as much as it will take..have a rag handy to wpe off excess/ Let it cool on it's own.

Then wsash everything down ..I like to use "Brillo " pads. Rinse well with very hot water.

A good way to clean up is to make "scrapers" out of brass.

And...those fumes are not good....have plenty of ventilaion or even a fan.

I do use Force 44; works perfectly. I don't use their flux. Do not use lead solder; if it gets hot blued, the salts will eat it. Force 44 is 95% tin and 5 silver. No lead.
I tin each side and then you won't have to worry about adhesion.
If you practice, you will see how long it takes. Major thing is not to scorch the flux, nor oxidize the steel; once you do you have to start over. solder will not adhere to burned flux or blue/brown metal. Oxidized.
It's easy.

One of Speerchuckers videos popped up on youtube this morning, I looked through his other vids and found this-

https://youtu.be/LzDg8AwllJY

He must be using Hi-Force because the barrel goes straw before the solder melts.

Hi Force 44 is the 95% tin/5% silver stuff; melts at 475. I did not see his video, but Rod did know what he was doing.

I use the commercial equivalent of Force 44. Alloy content is tin & silver (96% & 4%). It's sold as HVAC solder and is cheaper than Brownells. I also stay away from the Brownells flux.

As far as technique is concerned, I use an old fashioned copper soldering iron heated with a propane torch. Tin the iron, then transfer molten solder to the work piece. The solder will flow very easily and adhere well if the work piece is clean, adequately fluxed, and the iron and work piece are hot enough. By applying heat directly to the iron--not the barrel-the barrel will not over heat or begin to change colors. Tin both the barrel and the inside of the ramp band (I use a small round copper iron to apply the solder). Slide the pieces together and heat until the solder flows. Tinned parts are wiped clean of any flux residue and there is no problem with after rust caused by the flux. Not a real quick job, but it lasts forever. Also kind of fun once you get the hang of things.

heat follows flame, solder follows heat...

gunsmithing zen

I tin the under side of the sight base or what ever it is that you are soldering to the bbl. Wipe the tinning solder off while molten so it's just a thin even coating.

Then when the part is cooled off, I re-flux the surface and that of the bbl where the sight base is to be soldered to.

I clamp the sight base into position so it's straight. Then wipe off any excess flux that's on the bbl surface outside of the sight base,,and any flux that may have gotten on the sight base itself.

Then take a soft 'lead' pencil (actually graphite and clay bonded together) and scribble & cover the bbl and even the sides of the sight base all around the pieces. Right up to the joint where they meet.

Now sweat solder the joint heating the bbl an inch or more away from the assembly so as not to burn the flux.

When the solder melts you will see the slight bright solder line around the joint.
You can touch the edge of the joint with the end of the solder wire hammered down very thin to add a bit more solder if you want to.
Excess will just run out of the joint.

The lead pencil scribbling covering the metal around the the soldering will make the flux and any excess solder roll right off the steel and not stick to it.

That makes for very easy clean up and little or no after soldering scraping and polishing around the assembly to remove excess solder than exits the sweat solder joint.
No solder will stick to any surface covered with the pencil graphite coating.

Sweat solder joints using soft solder must be very close fitting for there to be any strength.
If there is much of a gap,,yes the solder will fill it, but there will be very little holding strength to the assembly.

I just use 50/50 or 60/40 solder and Paste Flux.
Nothing fancy.
I use it for any soft soldering jobs even relaying ribs on SxS's.
I've never had any problems using it.

I have used the 95/5 tin/silver solder in the past.
It worked OK, but nothing I could see to recommend it over Lead/Tin solder.
The one thing I didn't like about it was that it remains forever bright silver. Unlike Lead/tin which qxidizes to a dull grey color rather quickly.
The bright silver line no matter how fine isn't all that attractive if showing along a base or rib.,,and no matter how closely you fit parts you will get a solder line showing.

Yes there are touch up chemicals to darken it I think, but that's just another step I'd rather not have to deal with.

I don't hot salt blue anymore nor send stuff out for it to be done. I rust blue everything so the Lead/Tin solder vs Hot Salt Blue thing isn't an issue ,,at least with me.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I do use Force 44; works perfectly. I don't use their flux. ...

quote:

Originally posted by RogersGunWorks:...I also stay away from the Brownells flux....

What are you guys using instead of the Comet flux Brownells supplies? Will it also work for the higher strength High Temp Hi Force?
Thanks

I use Harris Stay-Clean paste soldering flux & get it from MSC.

When I do use Force44 solder, I just use the same paste soft solder flux as I use for lead/tin solder. Plumbers flux I guess it's called.
Works just as well and solders fine.

The Comet Flux and others of the same mix are usually called 'acid flux' & are generally Zinc Chloride.
You can make your own by disolving Zinc in Hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid)
Zinc from regular flash light battery casings.

It works great as a flux, but the after rust problem is the issue.
Unless you flush every bit of that flux from the surface after soldering, you will get continued rusting of the fluxed surfaces.
..and it isn't easy to get the stuff all off.

I've seen it used on SxS rib relay jobs and the rust afterwards terrible. It doesn't take all that long to start either.
What occures inbetween those ribs and bbls where you can't see and get at afterwards can be really damaging. Deep pitting, etc.

If you use it for tinning only of the parts and then rinse and flush it completely off and then use a rosin or non corroding paste to do the actual soldering you'll be safe.

It certainly does do a great job when tinning the surfaces. It's just the issue of the ever growing after rust if not removed that makes it a pain to work with in some applications.

note.. zinc in h2so4 releases A LOT of H2... i used to use this to fill balloons

quote:

Originally posted by RogersGunWorks:
I use Harris Stay-Clean paste soldering flux & get it from MSC.

Harris USED to make a paste of of Stay Clean and Stay Brite...worked great, but it seems that all those solder/flux pastes ae no longer available???

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):

quote:

Originally posted by RogersGunWorks:
I use Harris Stay-Clean paste soldering flux & get it from MSC.

Harris USED to make a paste of of Stay Clean and Stay Brite...worked great, but it seems that all those solder/flux pastes ae no longer available???

Duane, I use one of those Harris products, can't remember offhand which. I picked iy up about two years ago at my local welding supply. It worked well, much better than the crap Brownells was selling.

This is all extremely helpful. How critical is tinning the barrel? I noticed Larry Potterfield doesn’t appear tin the barrel in these two videos. He only tins the pieces that are being attached.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GWccdgwv5WE


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sBHOay8TAiI

You don't really have to tin both pieces; or either. When you solder copper pipes, you don't tin anything; the capillary action sucks the solder in. However, we like to make sure....

The reason to tin both sides is to remove ALL traces of flux that ends up leaching out later. After tinning, I spend 5 min or so under HOT water with a tooth brush scrubbing away the acid flux. Then I assemble the parts, heat and flow new solder into the joint. The second I'm done, I rub rosin around the joint fluxing it. Lotta smoke!! You can use rosin to flux for tinning, but it's a pain in the ass to get a perfect tin. A wire brush removes all the cooled rosin and Duane's little brass chisel cleans up much of the excess solder. I use 1/8" brazing rod in a collet needle file handle. Takes only a few seconds to re sharpen the chisel. You'll need to do that often.

quote:

Originally posted by 2152hq:
When I do use Force44 solder, I just use the same paste soft solder flux as I use for lead/tin solder. Plumbers flux I guess it's called.
Works just as well and solders fine.

I'm gonna have to try that.

There is no difference in flux requirements for lead/tin or tin/silver based solders. I use flux from Lowes; tin all surfaces and the joints will hold an elephant. Be careful of truly non corrosive fluxes; they might not work well on steel. Just don't use the old school hydrochloric acid fluxes. Although they do work very well. Don't breathe it either.

Since it seems nobody recommends comet flux, which particular plumbers flux is appropriate for the Force 44 solder?

Something like this: https://www.oatey.com/products...paste-flux-584191109

quote:

Originally posted by Tex84:
Since it seems nobody recommends comet flux, which particular plumbers flux is appropriate for the Force 44 solder?

Something like this: https://www.oatey.com/products...paste-flux-584191109

That is exactly the stuff I am using now with any tin/silver soft solder work I do.,,which isn't very much.

(I've used 'No Corrode' (sp?) soldering paste flux in the past w/o any issues with the tin/silver soft solder as well.)

I use the same Oatey brand flux with lead/tin soft solder for most everything that needs to be soft soldered and have never had any problems with failed joints or after rust.
So the tin/silver soft solder doesn't get much use by me.

But I did use it this evening to put the 'silver bead' back on a Winchester front sight. The stuff stays bright silver color,,so it does work good for that!
Just tin the soldering iron and touch it to the sight bead surface and transfer a nice rounded smooth bead of solder and it's done.
I used the Oatey flux as usual and a lead pencil scribble to keep the solder from flowing anywhere else onto the sight.
Quick and easy.

I finally got around to soldering on some iron sights. I used the Oatey No 5 past flux and the brownells hi-force 44 solder. I tinned the work piece and then added some flux to both the barrel and the tinned piece before clamping. Heated with a propane torch and everything seems to be very firmly attached. I practiced first on a take off barrel by soldering on a front ramp. After cooling down, I beat the ramp on the take off barrel with a hammer to test its durability, and it wouldn’t budge.

I washed everything down with soap and water and then cleaned up the metal with some 400 grit paper.

you don't need to solder a banded ramp ... just set it up for a crush fit and use a piece of round stock with a relief in it to hammer it into place.

That is the way Ruger does it; FS bands and sling bands.

“Gunmakers” method is the same I use.

As for other methods, I prefer solder and banded accessories in the event I need to set the barrel back any I can quickly move things.

I always solder them on.