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Last fall I glass bedded my first gun. I used Brownells Acraglas Gel. When I mixed up the epoxy, I had to literally scrape the resin out of the jar with a popsicle stick. It was like wax, or lard or something closer to solid than liquid/cream. Anyways, I mixed up the epoxy, and it was kind of like brownie mix, had some lumps in it. Beings this was my first attempt, I continued and poured it in the stock. I ended up getting spots of uncured epoxy. Luckily the critical areas of the recoil lug, and enough of the first couple inches of the barrel, were properly mixed and hardened correctly. I ended up digging out the white uncured goo with dental picks. Gun shoots well now, so i dont plan on redoing anything at this time. Anyways, I am considering doing another bedding job, so i got some regular mixture Acraglas, instead of the gel. I see the resin there is closer to a cream, and not anywhere close to solid. What I want to know now is was the resin in my gel supposed to be that hard, or did I get an old/bad kit? Can anybody confirm this? | ||
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The gel should have the consistency of Crisco, thick, but smooth and easy to move around. Rusty's Action Works Montross VA. Action work for Cowboy Shooters & Manufacturer of Stylized Rigby rifle sights. http://i61.photobucket.com/alb.../th_isofrontleft.jpg | |||
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You probably did not mix it up enuf. It may have been that consistency due to being stored in a cold place. I use nothing but the gel. You are gonna find it a PITA to use the liquid stuff; it will run all over and into everything. Stick with the gel. Jim Kobe 10841 Oxborough Ave So Bloomington MN 55437 952.884.6031 Professional member American Custom Gunmakers Guild | |||
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Might of been old and cold I notice same with some old many years laying around kind. Heat it up a bit before mixing and lots of time it well come back just fine. | |||
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I did the same thing once when I realized I didn't have enough with the first batch I quickly mixed another and didn't stir quite long enough and had the little white spots. I ended up taking it all out and redoing it. 2nd sticking to the GEL! God Bless, Louis | |||
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gel... NOT the glass... oh, yeah, marinetex is FAR superior, in every aspect, except coloring/matching opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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The gel works better. The only problem that you had before can be seen in a mirror. Follow the directions and you should do fine. | |||
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OKAY..gonna be the devils advocate here! Careful inletting will result in a zero clearance between wood and metal. Now if you're a slop jockey then you gotta use a "Dutchman" to take up the sloppy. I never understood why a layer of plasic should be construed as an accettable alternative to professional, careful inletting. What am I missing? | |||
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This past weekend I use the remnants of some AcraGlas gel I got about 10 years ago to fix the stock on a Marlin Camp 45. Yes, the white half comes out like wax, the brown is a bit softer but not much. I mixed them together for a good 5 minutes and they were still pretty stiff, like frozen peanut butter. But I got it where I needed it and kept a lump to check. After 18 hours it has cured hard and was fine. It's in the mixing. | |||
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Duane, maybe your missing the quality of the inletting on your average factory rifle. The last gel I bought had both the resin and hardner sugared up and hard, I'm told sticking the container in hot water brings it back, didn't try it though just grabbed something else I had on hand, ______________________ Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. | |||
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I have bedded less than 10 rifles in my life. Messed up one of them and was lucky to escape without too much grief. I used the Accraglass Gel on 3 rifles and have been using Bisonite with atomised steel for over 10 years. This has stiff Part A which softens up in a tub of warm water. The hardner part B is a viscous liquid and you only use a few drops. The mixing actually softens up the whole lot & I find it goes into all the small nooks and crannies better than ACG. I have also used Marine epoxy filler & it works fine. Bisonite is still my first choice now. JMTBW. "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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You're missing that we are not all up to your level of expertise! The average amateur hack like myself doesn't have the time, patience, or skills to even come close to achieving the fit that a simple glass bedding job provides. Like Dempsey said, factory inletting can be pretty poor, and the couple of semi inlets I have worked with looked like they were started with an adze. If I could start with a good clean routed or mill inletted blank I'd have a better jump on things. It doesn't show, and most aren't building guild rifles anyhow... | |||
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If we all had Duanes very high level of skill and talent in these things not only would accra glass go broke but Country Clubs everywhere would be bursting at the seems with Millionaire gunmakers.  ______________________ Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. | |||
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I use both and have discovered that mixing the regular liquidy stuff with a sufficient amount of walnut dust makes a fine gel-like substance that produces a good job of glass bedding. I keep the liquid stuff on hand as a glue and dispense it from plastic syringes in CCs.....It can be mixed in very small quantities this way also. The syringes allow precision 4-1 mixing and they were free from the local druggist! I still prefer the gel for glass bedding but the other stuff does just fine with the walnut dust in it. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Also, be advised that if you warm it up to "rejuvenate" it, let it cool before mixing. Warm/hot epoxy will kick off a lot faster than room temp stuff, possibly leaving you in the middle of something with unmanageable epoxy. Also, don't be tempted to use heat to "speed cure" an epoxy joint (ie: glass bedded action). A little warm is ok, but getting it hot will lower the integrity of the epoxy. Lessons learned from a career in the marine industry working with epoxies purchased by the 50 gallon drum. We used a lot of colloidal silica to thicken epoxy. I often wondered if that would be a good substitute for fibreglass floc in an epoxy mix intended for action bedding. Anybody ever try that? | |||
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Ah again something I know a bit about  .Whether one uses resin and a hardener in semi liquid form or gel paste makes little to no difference other than " Soak ability " into a porous substrate . A thinner Resin ( resins as well as many other types of liquids and semi liquids are given a value in Centipoise (CPS): A measure of viscosity (water has a CPS of 1). The obvious bedding procedure is to insure a fortified stable non yielding platform , in which to secure one's action too . Although a qualified Gunsmith is the expert on that subject and I'm not one !. When mixing any type of two component materials , proper preparation is essential . In other words have " Everything Ready " hence the phrase Get your shit together !. Mix components " Thoroughly " this does not mean dump into a container and swab a popsicle stick through it twice MIX THOROUGHLY as per instructions . If one wants to really fortify the wood fibers use a Liquid type product and brush it on for " Soak value " , now using the very same batch , allow it to set in it's container for a longer period of time ; prior to bedding as it will thicken . ( This can be tricky as volume can produce excess heat very quickly ) A thixotropic fluid displays a decrease in viscosity over time ( Gelling ) constant shear stress for a time causes an increase in viscosity or even solidification ( as with nearly any thermo setting resins . Please click the link below and note Page 4 Carefully ; Acraglas Regardless of which or who's methods are used there's NO Substitute for PROPER MIXING . http://www.stockysstocks.com/pdf/acraglasgel.pdf One last note with all due respect too Duane and other Gunsmiths ; There must be a reason why Savage under took the project " Accustock " and from all accounts seems to be an extremely favorable concept .  Materials move in service to some degree wood is what it is beautiful yet seasonal and subject to more movement then other materials . Personally I love wood , yet want Alum. full length bedding like Accustock . When it's not possible Devcon Epoxy assures me of the very next best thing . Opinions vary and this is just another one !.  | |||
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Look at the brain on Doc! "Never use big words when diminutive ones will suffice." | |||
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Uhmmm- no. If you want to saturate the wood with epoxy then use a thickened epoxy for bedding just add microfibers and colloidal silica to the rest of the batch, maybe even a little talc (sparingly) or titanium powder, to bring the mixture to proper state. Be sure to wipe excess thin epoxy from surface of wood once it has penetrated so it doesn't thin the thickened mixture. I have done a lot of epoxy work and would not consider applying partially cured epoxy for a structural application. Waxes come to the surface during curing (amine blush) which will interfere with the bonding process. Also batches don't cure homogeneously due to varying internal temps (and other factors) which may cause weakened "lumps". From West System tech manual-
West System may not be the most technically advanced epoxy system available, but it is routinely used to build boats that go offshore where peoples' lives depend on its bonding properties. | |||
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Uhmmmm YES Please feel free to take some liquid epoxy allow it to stand in a container and tell me it didn't cure to a thicker state ?, than if you brushed it out !. A filler is simply that which takes space with in the epoxy matrix . One can use Microballoons also Chopped fibers of nearly any type even cellulose dust. The effect of hollow glass particle (microballoon) volume fraction in the range of 0.3-0.6 on the tensile properties and fracture mode of syntactic foams is characterized in the present research. Sixteen types of syntactic foams have been fabricated and tested. Four types of glass microballoons, having 220, 320, 380, and 460 kg/m3 density, are used with epoxy resin matrix for making the syntactic foam samples. These foams contain 30, 40, 50 and 60% microballoons by volume. All types of microballoons have the same size but different wall thickness, which reflects as a difference in their density. It is observed that the tensile strength increases with a decrease in the volume fraction of microballoons. All types of syntactic foams showed 60-80% decrease in the tensile strength compared with that of the neat resin. The foams containing low strength microballoons showed lower tensile modulus compared with that of the neat resin, but the presence of high strength microballoons led to an increase in the tensile modulus of the composites. Want to seal the entire inside of the stock without appreciable dimensional changes prior to epoxy bedding or no bedding ? . Smith's epoxy sealer ; http://www.jamestowndistributo...&keyword=smith_epoxy | |||
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I believe that Brownells sells fiberglass floc that can be used with the liquid acraglass to thicken it. This allows you to come up with a custom mix that is thicker than the liquid, but not quite as stiff as the gel. According to Brownells, if you think the gel is too thick and the liquid is to thin, you can just go floc yourself. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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I had a similar problem with Acraglass Gel today. I needed to bed the recoil area on a tupperware stock. I found some NOS, unopened 8 oz tubs in the back of a cabinet. The stuff must be ten years old. The hardener softened with a bit of heat, but the resin had cured. I called Brownells to order some resin, (they sell the individual components). The 8 oz tub was listed at $25 & shipping. When I placed the order, the lady asked if I wanted the hardener and I explained I had an old tub and the resin had cured in the tub. She directed me to the tech service, they suggested I warm it up to ~140 degrees but that didn't help, it was cured, white, shiny and like rubber. The tech guy sent me back to ordering and instructed her to send me a new 8 oz tub. I am not a frequent customer. I do this stuff for fun and although I have ordered from them since the 70's, it is sometimes years between orders. The lady asked when I ordered it, I had no idea. She asked for my customer number and looked at her computer, then asked if I wanted it sent to the address they had. That was it. No questions, no hassle, no shipping and no cost. No "return it and we will see if it was defective". I can't remember when I have returned something to them, maybe that has something to do with it. You guys that buy frequently probably know just how good that company is, but I was surprised to say the least. I used the last of my MicroBed and if you know what that is your probably as old as I am. I think all epoxy resin has a shelf life and will cure with air or water and time. Some are water or air activated, the accelerator or hardener is needed for strength and to shorten the cure time. If it has already cured, no amount of heat or mixing will make it usable. My advice, if the components don't seem right even with heat and mixing, get fresh ones. Nothing is as messy as trying to remove and redo bad epoxy. It just isn't worth the effort. Roger | |||
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Doc, 86thecat did not say it would not thicken, he said that letting it sit in the pot was not the best way to achieve a thicker consistency. He then backed it up. You shot him down, but then just rambled on and didn't adequately counter any of his points. By the way, exclamation points and question marks are stand alone punctuation, they do not require a period at the end to finish the sentence. (and you don't space before a punctuation mark...) Sorry, I don't normally nitpick like that, but it has been bothering me for a while. | |||
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From Doc-
Doc, that is the point. If one uses proper fillers the epoxy will be stronger, so why pizz around with partially cured epoxy and risk problems. Easier and stronger to just stir in the proper filler. From Doc-
Fillers modify the epoxy, increasing strength significantly especially in "gap filling" applications. From West System-
http://www.adhesivetechnologies.co.nz/west.html
Good stuff but be sure to follow proper precautions. The solvents used are nasty. From my experience a respirator is mandatory. Haven't used it for 10 years and wasn't aware it was still available retail. edit-Looked at the MSDS and product info, looks like it has been reformulated since I used it, but would still be careful. Some guys on our crew had respiratory issues with exposure to the old formula. | |||
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OK point well taken ; FYI ; Fillers of ANY TYPE NEVER EVER Increase the strength of ANY EPOXY !. When applying an epoxy over a fabric they do lend strengthening properties to one another , however no fabric increases an epoxy strength ?, it's actually just the opposite . Fillers are added for a Bulkier Gap filling purpose and to some extent lesson the weight of the total matrix . Again the more filler LESS STRENGTH is achieved . It's what lamination schedules an composite mixtures are based upon / % of fabric too Resin ratio's . It makes no difference to me how any of you ,do or use which ever products you choose , to do whatever you're doing . Carry on . | |||
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There is nothing finer then a rifle with wood to stock fit that looks like they were grown together. There is also nothing more expensive. | |||
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Well, which is it Doc?! | |||
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FYI ; Fillers of ANY TYPE NEVER EVER Increase the strength of ANY EPOXY !. Is Bondo plastic autobody filler stronger than resin it's self !. I believe most of you know the answer to that one . Use it instead of Acraglas if you think it is !!!. It's a Whole lot cheaper !. If a person has two bags of Oranges and two bags of Apples and they spill those bags into a pile What do you have then ?. Somethings remain the same yet appear different . The matrix is comparing microballoons NOT THE EPOXY IT'S SELF !. Testing which is stronger Titanium Epoxy or Steel epoxy ? . If you need more than 10 seconds to formulate an answer , You've just flunked chemistry 101 !. | |||
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Ouch !! | |||
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In the real world- "Epoxy" refers to the entire matrix including fillers for the intended application. (Acraglas gel already contains proper fillers.) Using epoxies similar to West System and System Three- With proper fillers compressive strength DOUBLES. With proper fillers tensile strength in gap filling applications increases. With proper fillers amount of compression and elongation under load can be halved. Fillers modify epoxy for higher PERFORMANCE. If anyone is interested in the numbers, do a google or contact the epoxy manufacturer. Most unfilled epoxies are weak in a gap filling application. Bedding a firearm action is a gap filling application with the epoxy primarily under compression (action screw tension and recoil lug load during firing) so high compressive strength is important. Advice to use unfilled, partially cured epoxy in this application is IMHO bull, and likely to result in bedding which needs to be ground out and redone properly. ..................... Bondo is a polyester resin filled with a lightweight low strength filler, its performance has been increased for its' intended application which is a light weight easily worked fairing compound that sands and finishes easily. It was never designed for high strength applications. | |||
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I used acraglas gel before I found Devcon 10110. The Devcon is a lot better than Acraglas but not any cheaper. It is all I will use anymore. It does a better job and is stronger.......Tom SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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Doc, I think you flunked English 101. Either that or I flunked reading comprehension... Am I the only one here who can't figure out what the hell Doc is trying to say?  OK, I'll bite, you have a pile of apples and oranges. What is the point you are trying to make? You seem to think fillers of any kind weaken the epoxy. Others have countered that some fillers will strengthen the matrix, and they have done a good job explaining their position. I am not an epoxy major, but the later makes sense to me. If what you are adding has a higher tensile strength than the epoxy itself then the results should be stonger. If you are just adding microballoons to thicken the mixture then I could see how this would weaken the epoxy. I think of it this way, when you add styrofoam beads to concrete you end up with a lighter weight product with better insulative qualities, but it is weaker than the original concrete. If you add steel rebar to concrete, you get a structure that is much stronger than concrete alone. The two main points of contention in this thread are: 1. Fillers can be used to thicken an epoxy mixture to a desired consistency. Some fillers may strengthen the epoxy, and some may weaken it. 2. Using a filler to thicken the mixture is more desirable than allowing it to partially cure. By the way, nobody here ever suggested that Bondo is stronger than Acraglass. P.S. Doc, you really should try to get this grammar and punctuation thing under control. I don't say this to belittle you, but I can't take anything you say seriously with all the sentence fragments and random inappropriate punctuation marks. It looks like it was typed by a 3rd grader. | |||
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First an foremost I barely passed my English exams as it was arbitrary to Latin !. I do speak German fairly well and Spanish also . What part of this don't U Understand ?. FYI ; Fillers of ANY TYPE NEVER EVER Increase the strength of ANY EPOXY !.
Fillers DON'T STRENGTHEN EPOXY PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION !. Fillers remain inert to the epoxies chemical formulation . Epoxy can be made as thick or thin as necessary without fillers of any type , depending on intended usage and application of said materials . If you or anyone else really believes fillers strengthen epoxy , then why buy Acraglas or any other epoxy ? . Just use Bondo and you'll be fine .
If you add carbon fiber or nearly any fiber too concrete it becomes stronger than just concrete so what was YOUR POINT ? Epoxy is now somehow Concrete or vice versa ??. Bondo is FULL OF FILLER is it stronger than Epoxy or Polyester resin ?. If you want to play at chemistry ? , answer my question which YOU avoided altogether !. Testing : Which is stronger Titanium Epoxy or Steel epoxy ? . If you need more than 10 seconds to formulate your answer U flunked Chem 101 !!!. Epoxies formulated for coating and fiberglassing are too thin to serve as gap-filling adhesives. They can be modified by the addition of thixotropes to form non-sagging pastes very useful as gap filling glues. These pastes can be further modified with the addition of microballoons to form putties for fairing and hole filling. Fillers change the flow density and strength characteristics of an epoxy system. Each filler changes the liquid resin and hardener in ways that make epoxy useful for other applications besides coating of fabric . You will need to learn how to use fillers if you intend to use general-purpose epoxy. You can avoid using fillers if you choose a product which is better suited for your intended purpose . Those products have already been modified and optimized for their particular end uses. You simply measure and mix these products and do not have to bother with fillers. Fillers fall into four general classes: thixotropic agents, bulking agents, fibrous fillers, and pigments. There is some overlapping as to function of certain fillers. For example, plastic minifibers are both fibrous and act also as a thixotropic agent. Silica thickener (Cab-O-Sil or Aerosil), plastic minifibers and wood flour are thixotropic agents. They turn the epoxy into a thixotropic fluid. These fluids flow under shear stress but do not readily flow once the stress is removed. Ketchup and latex house paints are examples of thixotropic fluids. Adding these agents to the mixed resin and hardener produces a fluid that will easily flow under the spreading stress of a putty knife. Once the stress is removed the thickened epoxy retains its shape. In short, these fillers make the epoxy non-sagging and are added specifically to make gap-filling adhesives. They do however tend to lesson the strength of the original resin properties . Phenolic microballoons, quartz microspheres, and wood flour are bulking agents. They "bulk out" the epoxy making a lightweight putty like mix. Although all these thicken the epoxy, only wood flour will also make it thixotropic. Attempting to add sufficient microballoons or microspheres to make a non-sagging fairing putty will result in one that spreads poorly as it becomes dry. These materials should be used along with a thixotropic agent. Silica thickener is the best choice because it produces the smoothest compound. Chopped glass strands, milled glass fibers, and plastic minifibers are fibrous materials that can be incorporated into structural filleting putties to improve tensile strength. The correct sequence for the addition of filler materials: 1. Correctly measure and mix resin/hardener. 2. Add fiber fillers, if any, and mix well. 3. Add bulking agents, if any, and mix well. 4. Add thixotropic agent and mix well. As I originally pointed out the only materials which lend any strength values are Fibers as they increase tensile strength . The composites community doesn't consider Fibers as fillers they're referred to fabric layup . In all fairness some people refer to them as filleting joints , when a bulk faired joint is required . Class now over !!!. | |||
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Link to original text of Doc's 9 March post- http://www.jamestowndistributo...+Three+Epoxy+Fillers Part of the text Doc edited out-
Link to original text of his 5 march post- http://composites.poly.edu/Pub...syntactic%20foam.pdf I guess the class is over as the "professor" was just fired for plagiarism. | |||
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Doc, My apologies concerning my comments about your English if it is not your primary language. Your location did not provide any clue in this regard. As far as your question about the relative strength of titanium epoxy vs steel epoxy, I did not answer it because it was not germain to the discussion. I honestly do not know the answer... I guess I just flunked chem 101! I think the root of this entire misunderstanding lies in our interpretation of the meaning of terms being used. Your second to last sentence finally clued me in when you stated "The composites community doesn't consider Fibers as fillers..." You see, when an average guy like me who is not part of the exclusive "composites community" reads a sentence that states: "Chopped glass strands, milled glass fibers, and plastic minifibers are fibrous materials that can be incorporated into structural filleting putties to improve tensile strength", I naturally tend to think of those materials as fillers. Especially when step number 2 in the instructions you graciously provided above refers to them as such: "Add fiber fillers, if any, and mix well." Silly me I guess... Then when you emphatically state "Fillers DON'T STRENGTHEN EPOXY" it seems to me like you are contradicting yourself. Or that you didn't actually read the text that you copied and pasted. I understand that microballoons, cornstarch, or floor sweepings don't do anything to strengthen epoxy. However, some fibrous "fillers" do. So, now that we've cleared that little mess up,  which is stronger, titanium epoxy or steel epoxy?! Or is Bondo stronger? If not, why not?! Are titanium and steel fibrous materials, or fillers? | |||
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doc, you are playing a word game between physical bonds and properties vs chemical bonds and properties.. and trying to make people feel dumb because they KNOW filler in epoxies makes them "stronger" .. they just don't know how to explain that well .. the physical properties of say, powdered titanium are bascically "dust, innert to most things" ... but add an epoxy that it can matrix in, or even i dunno, aluminium, it has entirely different results ... glad you are having fun at other peoples expense ... its cheaper that way
opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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we get it, you don't use bedding and look down your nose that those that do. ... and that's unlikely to change.. got it ...
opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Has anyone used Bisonite? "When the wind stops....start rowing. When the wind starts, get the sail up quick." | |||
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Jeffeosso, I honestly don't think doc is trying to have fun at anybody's expense, I just think there is a huge language barrier. I'm just here trying to learn something. There was a missed opportunity to clear up my confusion several posts ago. (below) When I pointed out what I saw as an apparent contradiction in one of his posts his answer was rambling and didn't address my confusion whatsoever. I think doc has some education, but can't always see the point.
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Monte, i think he certainly is having a go and playing word games .. being at least tri-lingual, he has a greater understanding of noun-pronoun, subject-predicate reference, tense and mode than any single language speaker. he's having fun with the concept that the physical changes of the epoxy+filler don't actually change the EPOXY's physical characteristics as there is no chemical interactive changes ... and if one ONE measures the strength of the epoxy, he's correct.... though "we" don't care about the specific strength of the epoxy, we care about the strength of the composite ... there's a huge, but meaningless from a gunsmithing perspective, difference ... i am certain Doc is intelligent enough to know the difference, and has chosen to take this bone and run with it ... like the guy that picks a fight over calling a bullet a cartridge, correctly stating that there is NO power in a bullet ... yeah, he's "correct" but "that boy aint right" opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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FYI ; I wasn't intentionally having fun at anyone's expense other than my own time !. The Point is simple ; Adding a filler doesn't make an epoxy resin stronger HOW CAN IT ?. What properties do they lend ? . I use more types of epoxies and resins of nearly every chemical concoction than you could possibly imagine . I use fillers and never said I didn't . I wanted to correct an error / no different if someone asked about loading 55 grains of blue dot in 30/06 BAD EXAMPLE ! DON'T TRY IT !!!. Acraglass, Devcon Masterbond and other epoxy putties are just fine and I never said other wise . My intended purpose was to educate not belittle someone ;I save that for the political forum . Sorry if anyone saw it differently . I believe everybody wants a Duane Wiebe Rifle / I KNOW I DO !. However wanting and obtaining are two separate issues aren't they . To fortify wood as in a bedding situation , I simply like to " Soak " the wood fibers within that bedding area with a quality epoxy . Then if gap filling is necessary I prefer Fiber placement to Cabosil ,silica , talc or microballoons . Nothing like running a layer or two of Armid fibers like Carbon Boron for rigidity .While retaining the outer stocks Walnuts natural beauty pristine . My Idea of a Firearm aficionado's perfect marriage . Just another mans opinion .  | |||
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