One other note of interest - I was very recently contacted by a "retired" Federale who really questioned extensively me about my activities. I explained to him at least 5 times that I was no longer in business and was only selling of my inventory of guns, parts and tools. Beware of "retired" government agents. Once a FedreaLe, always a Federale. I hope this only old age paranoia,

Sorry for not getting back sooner.
My statements are based on what the (Senior Investigator) told me. Monthly reporting is with the tax department. Information can be found on www.ttb.gov/firearms . There is a 50 gun moratorium before you have to pay taxes. In real life if you are a full time gunsmith that is less than one job per week. At that time you will have to pay back taxes out of your own pocket if you don't collect from day one.

All other regulations, 243 pages of it can be found by doing a search for atf-p-5300-4. Please be aware that this does not contain the newest updates.

One thing that the agent told me that is not true. According to the new ruling I can occasionally assemble a firearm from parts (AR15). He told me none was allowed.

One note of advice, anyone that thinks that the powers to be doesn't watch these internet forums need to wake up and get there head out of the sand. What and how you say it can come back to bight you.

James

ATFE considers assembling a AR from parts to be 'manufacturing'. Its in the July 22 release from the DDTC that says you can assemble a firearm from parts 'occasionally'. Two different regs, two different definitions, two different 'alphabet' agencies.

quote:

Originally posted by slivers:
A 'directive' or EO instructing the State Dept. to enforce an already existing regulation.

The regulation already existed, but they altered the definition. Which is in essence, amending legislation. Which only Congress is SUPPOSED to be allowed to do. An Executive order is only intended to enforce existing law, not alter it. But! They have been "bending" the rules for so long that they dont even recognize the Constitution anymore. Not even the Supreme Court. If they did they wouldnt be coming after our guns.

Petition to the White House to remove gunsmiths from the ITAR BS:



https://petitions.whitehouse.g...ove-gunsmithing-itar

√

This particular bit of government intervention in the marketplace began under Bill Clinton, got worse under GW Bush, then hit it's stride under Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. None of the politicians, Democrat or Republican, have shown any inclination to stop it and I suspect it has gone too far by now. The partisan political blame game, while it might feel good, is really noy applicable. They ALL want to control trade and commerce, all want to control the populace, and most want to control guns. We who are gunsmiths in Canada, have it a lot better than our American counterparts except that the US government decided to limit exports to us. American manufacturers didn't care too mush at first because we are not that large a slice of the market. Now that costs are increasing for them, they care a little more. Now that even tooling manufacturers are affected, they finally see the problem. Still, some of the larger firms don't mind regulation too much. They can afford it and it eliminates much of the competition. The NRA should have been all over this 18 years ago. I am really glad I'm at the end of my career. Regards, Bill.

quote:

Petition to the White House to remove gunsmiths from the ITAR BS:

That petition requires 100,000 signatures to get action from the White House, and I cannot fathom that there are anywhere near 100,000 gunsmiths in the USA. Not too sure it will be effective.

I heard banning reloading is next.Yep my gunsmith is already retiring does not want the hassel!

Well, for whatever it's worth, I just sent off the money and the ridiculously complicated application package. I guess I'll see how it goes from there. I just can't stand to let the bastards drive me out, I guess.

quote:

posted 08-12-2016 11:46 PM Hide Post
Petition to the White House to remove gunsmiths from the ITAR BS:



https://petitions.whitehouse.g...ove-gunsmithing-itar

Just sign it and will send an email to everyone I know.

Jim

Thing is, the Constitution gives us the right to "petition," but it doesn't require "them" to do anything about it. Imho and unfortunately, a petition to this White House will amount to a piss hole in the snow....

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
write your congressman and senators. They can strip this from their authority to do so.

the people gave the whole congress to the gop conservatives in 2012 and realy what good did they do to stop the kenyan islamomarxist in our white house??


democrat or american who are you?

quote:

Originally posted by Clemson:

quote:

Petition to the White House to remove gunsmiths from the ITAR BS:

That petition requires 100,000 signatures to get action from the White House, and I cannot fathom that there are anywhere near 100,000 gunsmiths in the USA. Not too sure it will be effective.

Bump...

Now would be a good time to start banging on our Congressman's phones on this issue. We should stay on this, there may yet be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Go to www.GreatAgain.gov There's link titled "Suggestions",,,,, "Suggest' that the "Export Trade Control" initiative be completed, which will remove sporting firearms from ITAR and the Dept. of State to the Commerce Dept. where registration is not required.

quote:

Originally posted by slivers:
Go to www.GreatAgain.gov There's link titled "Suggestions",,,,, "Suggest' that the "Export Trade Control" initiative be completed, which will remove sporting firearms from ITAR and the Dept. of State to the Commerce Dept. where registration is not required.

What is the definition of "sporting firearms"?

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
I heard banning reloading is next.Yep my gunsmith is already retiring does not want the hassel!

Not exactly unheard of...Tanzania wisdom has not allowed this for many years

Maybe Trump will make good on his promises regarding all of this GC crap.

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:

quote:

Originally posted by slivers:
Go to www.GreatAgain.gov There's link titled "Suggestions",,,,, "Suggest' that the "Export Trade Control" initiative be completed, which will remove sporting firearms from ITAR and the Dept. of State to the Commerce Dept. where registration is not required.

What is the definition of "sporting firearms"?

A little research, and on the DDTC web site concerning the 21 items to be moved to the Dept. of Commerce from the USML and it just says "FIREARMS", not sporting firearms, not military firearms, just "FIREARMS". The 3 items that haven't been transferred yet are; firearms, artillery, and ammunition.

This is still an issue... does anybody have any information regarding the Trump administration's possible actions on this?

quote:

Originally posted by H47:
This is still an issue... does anybody have any information regarding the Trump administration's possible actions on this?

No, but I am interested to hear how your payment and application went.

Fal Grunt, the payment and application went ok. They don't take checks, so I had to do an electronic transfer from my bank, which cost an extra $30. I received a computer generated receipt of the application, and then nothing. I tried to email them, no answer. They used the whole 45 days, and I finally got an email saying I was "registered" until Sept 30, 2017. And next year, unless the Trump administration corrects this piece of crap, I get to do it all over again. Yay!

And btw, I contacted my senator's office back in August with a whole load of information on this. Since then, nothing.

do not worry. An awful lot of these silly anti 2A regulations and the people who thought them up will be gone by time Punxatony (sp?) Phil shows up in the spring.

Well we can certainly hope. Frankly I'd also like a refund, but that is probably hoping for too much. Still, if this thing were to go away, a lot of us would look at it as "Christmas in February..."

I've been operating outside this regulation since it come to my attention in July. I printed out a copy of the two lists from the State dept letter of July 22, "registration required" and "registration not required", and put them up in my shop. This is partially for the benefit of my customers when I tell them why I can't do a specific job and mainly for the ATF. When they ask me what I do during a visit, I will reference the guideline.

I have found out that it only applies to rifles and handguns. Sporting shotguns are exempt per the USML. A sporting shotgun is defined as having a barrel over 18" and an overall length over 26".

I have also read legal opinion that this guideline applies to anyone doing the work, not just FFL holders. The letter clearly states "any person" not licensee.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Mark, the letter and the regulation clearly state, "engages... in the business," which would clearly exclude individuals doing the work for themselves.

I'm not sure what ramifications there are or may be for gunsmiths who do the work but don't register. I'm sure many of us have struggled with the issue. I have never been contacted by the State Dept regarding this, and to my knowledge they have no field enforcement staff similar to BATFE who go around and check "manufacturers." And I'm not sure whether ATF enforces this on a cooperative basis or not.

For my own self, I decided that taking the risk simply was not worth it. I choose not to put 40 plus years of doing it, my shop, and probably my ability to own firearms at all, at risk. So I registered and paid up. It's not easy or cheap, it really sticks in my craw, but the alternatives of just closing up shop or continuing to operate while risking being charged with a violation, I decided were less attractive.

The guideline does not clearly state anything. As to whether this applies to any person or a licensed gunsmith is a matter for courts and attorneys. I've read opinions from attorneys that say it means any person.

There are 3 alternatives for a gunsmith, the 2 you listed or not doing the work that triggers the registration requirement. I choose the last one. That is as valid a choice as either of the other two.

Mark, I didn't mean to imply that yours isn't a perfectly valid choice too. My work consists mainly of barrel and chamber work, threading and other "cutting" operations. I don't do repairs or bluing. Hence the "non manufacturing" choice doesn't really work too well in my case, so i didn't mention it.... Peace, Bro.

And btw, I contacted my senator's office back in August with a whole load of information on this. Since then, chirping crickets.
But I contacted them again, and apparently they are working on something for the new congress. So there may be hope.

I'm glad to hear your senators office is taking it seriously. I called 4 years ago when ITAR came up for me with my manufacturing license. Because no one at ITAR or the ATF could answer my questions I dropped my 07. Now it's come back to haunt me. I didn't have the money then and I don't have the money now. I would have to significantly raise my prices which I believe will likely mean the gun work I do will no longer be viable.

The above members should review the letter again. If you, under definition, once meet the manufacturing criteria you are required to register for eternity. Per ITAR, that means anything "improved" or made for a firearm. Per my conversation if you cold head, or machine an 8-40 screw, you manufactured a firearm. The cocking piece weldments I'm selling are an order of 25 firearms.

My senators office told me I could write them a letter but from what they said they could care less. No one wants to take on the DDTC and the pentagon.

According to my senator's office, Senator Daines of Montana is the "lead" on this, and they are co ordinating with him. A copy of letter sent to Kerry is available at the link.

https://www.daines.senate.gov/...sguided-itar-changes

Thanks for posting.

That could get some results????


.

JTEX, the letter itself was sent some time ago, in August, with the of course predictable non-results. But if they will keep it up, this sounds like something the Trump administration will want to take care of. I'm hoping....

And read the list of signatories. If your guy is on it, tell him thanks and keep it up. If he's not, then maybe send him a copy and ask why not.

quote:

Originally posted by H47:
And read the list of signatories. If your guy is on it, tell him thanks and keep it up. If he's not, then maybe send him a copy and ask why not.

That I will do.

quote:

Originally posted by H47:
According to my senator's office, Senator Daines of Montana is the "lead" on this, and they are co ordinating with him. A copy of letter sent to Kerry is available at the link.

https://www.daines.senate.gov/...sguided-itar-changes

I emailed Colorado Senator Corey Gardner about ITAR shortly after it went public. Given that two of the most prominent gunsmithing schools in the country are located in Colorado, I thought for sure that Senator Gardner would be a signatory, but he is not.

As a graduate of CST I have been meaning to call them and ask how they are handling it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:
As a graduate of CST I have been meaning to call them and ask how they are handling it.

My suggestion to them would be to get out of the peoples Republik of Colorado. Maybe move north to Wyoming. Colo has officially lost its "collective" mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Wstrnhuntr:

quote:

Originally posted by Fal Grunt:
As a graduate of CST I have been meaning to call them and ask how they are handling it.

My suggestion to them would be to get out of the peoples Republik of Colorado. Maybe move north to Wyoming. Colo has officially lost its "collective" mind.

We could be wimps, and do that, or we can call our elected officials, and engage as many people as possible about our pro-gun views. Simply moving to a pro-gun state solves nothing, in the long run. The media, the K through 12 teachers and college professors endoctrinating our kids, and the political left won't stop trying to move their agenda forward. We can't sit on our hands and do nothing about it. Being passive and apathetic, while the left has been busy reshaping our country, is how we got here in the first place. I spent my first 21 years of life in Texas, and the last 21 years here in Colorado. Needless to say, the political landscape here has changed tremendously, with the "California" political mindset largely prevailing. However, Trump's victory reminds me that the viewpoints and attitudes of people's hearts and minds aren't always set in stone, and everyday folks talking to other everyday folks can make a huge difference. The libs are in this fight for the long haul, and so should we. We own this country, not the politicians.