I just bought a partially modified P17 Enfield. The ears have been ground off (flat deck) and its been drilled and tapped for the old Redfield one piece mount (not included). The rear bridge has not been milled back so that the cartridge clip slot is still there. The stock is cut down military, the barrel has a lot of shine but weak rifling. I paid $210 for the rifle. It is a Winchester.

I want to convert to 300 H$H. I have one of my father in laws old reloads. I find that the loaded cartridge is about .25 inch too long to fit the cartridge box. The round measures about 3.6 inch col.

I have several questions:
1) What modifications are usually done to get the long magnum cartridges to fit the cartridge box?

2) Where can I get a mount to fit the existing screw holes? I want to mount a scope and shoot the rifle while still in 30-06. Is the flat rear deck a problem?

3) What else should be done to the action?

4) I'm not planning to retain the old barrel. Who would do what else this action needs to be done, install a new barrel and reblue at a reasonable price and time frame. I'm not looking for fancy but a good shooter.

Thanks,
Phil Wiebe

ive got a 1917 that was rechambered from 30-06 to .300 h&H.... the ears were removed, and shaped like a remington 30 receiver... the bolt has been "worked" to make it a magnum boltface, and its cock-on-opening now... the bolt release spring has been 'bubba'd in an effort to reshape it...no rail work was done and it feeds nicely... jeffe's got the bolt in his stash somewhere for a .375 project, or i'd look at it closer... don't discount the old barrel unless it's really trash, and then have a gunsmith that works on enfields remove it... i can recommend tip burns ... www.canyonsportingarms.com he built a .416 taylor for me on an eddystone 1917 and he's building a .505 gibbs on a remington 30 action now...

First...are you sure it is a P-17 Enfield and not a P-14? If it is a P-14 it possibly won't need the bolt face opened up.

Second, if it is a P-14, the rifling may be one of English patterns which looks weak but isn't.

Third, you do understand, I hope, that these days it is most likely cheaper and easier to find and buy a Reminton M700 Classic in .300 H&H or an older Remington M-721 than to barrel, stock, modify the bottom metal, install a new trigger, convert to cock-on-opening and othewise transform either a P-14, or P-17 into a good working .300 H&H.

If you could do the work yourself, which it does not sound as if you can, such a conversion can be done for somewhere around $500 which would be less espensive than the Remingtons, but if you have to hire it all done, you're looking at some multiple of that.

Yeah but it would be... Well umm... A Remington!! Blah....

OK - it is a P-17 Winchester in 30-06.

Where can I get the old Redfield type scope mounts?

In these conversions what happens to the magazine box - how is it modified? Or do I just have to seat the bullets deeper? According to my measurements the existing box will not accomodate a 300 H&H or .416 Remington length cartridge.

I don't care to modify the bottom metal.The extra depth is OK with me. I'm not looking for a fancy custom job.

The bolt face will have to be opened. I like the controlled round feed and the side safety the way it is.

Is it necessary to shorten the length of the rear bridge?

I checked ER Shaw's price list, a barrel, installation, bolt face work, blueing about $600.

I've got a lot of cock on closing military rifles now and am OK with it. Actually its not bad once you get used to it. If modified, its just changing parts in the bolt or is machining necessary?

I'd have to see the action but you may not have to do much to it. My brothers Eddystone takes .375 H&H in the mag with no problem. it's a .30-06 as well.

Custom bases I would bet are your only answer. But the action may have been shaped to take an existing base.

Some basic to major machining is required for the cock on opening conversions. I've not do one to a P17 so I don't know how much is involved. but on the mausers there is a good amount of work involved with more attention to detail needed then removal of material

quote:

Thanks,
Phil Wiebe

You could call your brother

Dayton Traister makes a cock on opening conversion. I believe Buehler made a base for a flat receiver bridge, and I may have one. I'll have to look. However, the hole pattern for the rear screw may not be the same as for the Redfield base.

If you want the job done right, I would invest in some new bottom metal and have the magazine cut in the receiver opened up to accomodate the longer cartridge.

I'll recommend Dennis Olson, his data is listed on the forum here, I sent my 1917 to him to work on, you wouldn't believe what that guy can do with a stock, and he's got lots of experience with 1917's.

Mine is a 1917 remington, it has a one piece base, not sure the brand, but it must have been setup for a standard base as it isn't anything special. Take some measurements and post them, somebody here will come along that knows what you need.

Red

quote:

Originally posted by PRW:
I just bought a partially modified P17 Enfield.
~~~~
I want to convert to 300 H$H.

Search the web for a copy of "Introduction to Modern Gunsmithing" by Harold E. MacFarland, Stackpole, 1965. He goes into great detail on the classic mods for an Enfield, that is, before people tried to make them look just like Mausers. At the least you'll know what you're getting yourself into. Some of the parts sources are long gone, but a little searching could turn up current production parts.

quote:

Originally posted by PRW:
OK - it is a P-17 Winchester in 30-06.

Where can I get the old Redfield type scope mounts?

In these conversions what happens to the magazine box - how is it modified? Or do I just have to seat the bullets deeper? According to my measurements the existing box will not accomodate a 300 H&H or .416 Remington length cartridge.

I don't care to modify the bottom metal.The extra depth is OK with me. I'm not looking for a fancy custom job.

The bolt face will have to be opened. I like the controlled round feed and the side safety the way it is.

Is it necessary to shorten the length of the rear bridge?

I checked ER Shaw's price list, a barrel, installation, bolt face work, blueing about $600.

I've got a lot of cock on closing military rifles now and am OK with it. Actually its not bad once you get used to it. If modified, its just changing parts in the bolt or is machining necessary?

I like the cock on closing feature, it's just that most Americans don't like it because they aren't used to it. I find it does speed up the second shot IF you need speed for some reason. It also makes extraction of tight cases easier, but I don't normally load to that level on purpose anyway. Numerich Arms used to sell cock-on-opening kits, but they still required a bit of machining to the cocking piece...nothing major, but should be done by someone who has either good guidance or has done them before. Good instructions did not use to come with the kit, but may now in this litigous age if the kits are still available.

If you are willing to still have the downward hump in the floorplate, that will save you some significant money as it won't need to be cut, re-welded and have the welds polished smooth. The magazine box will still need to be lengthened though. (There are several ways to do that.)

You can modify the military trigger to single pull yourself with a little careful work (one of the old ways was to drill a hole in the trigger and put a screw through it to adjust the first pull out of it to whatever degree you feel is safe). Another is to modify one of the humps, but I'd rather avoid that. You can also leave it a double pull and just polish it nice and smooth. Or, you can put in a Timney if they are still available for that model. There used to be several other makes of aftermarket triggers for them, but I don't know if any of those are still around. I'd check a Brownell's catalogue online, or look in Google to see what is still out there.

You can probably get a useable stock for about $100 or less from Boyd's.

Shaw's price is reasonable, but you probably will have enough into it by the time you're done that you'll either never want to sell it for what it will fetch, or will lose money if you do peddle it.

Me, I'd go with one the Remingtons I mentioned before. They are not CRF, but you will make money on one of those Remingtons if you keep it a few years as they are becoming more rare every year. I don't see making money as likely happening with your proposed P-17 conversion.

But the conversion is definitely do-able. Enjoy the chase.

If you are going to rebarrel, you can save a lot of work by swappng your bolt for a P-14 bolt. The bolt face will fit a magnum on the P-14.
I am working on a 458 Lott using a P-14 action, E.R.Shaw barrel and a Boyds stock. The worst part of the project was milling the receiver and the D&T job. It must have been cast from ball bearings. You have that part done already. It does clean up the looks of the action to remove the stripper guide and also some metal around the rear of the action.
You also might consider using a 300 Win mag rather then the H&H. Easier to fing ammo off the shelf if you need to.

quote:

Originally posted by odies dad:
You also might consider using a 300 Win mag rather then the H&H. Easier to fing ammo off the shelf if you need to.

You would not have to modify the magazine, either.

My first one was a Remington 1917 that a gunsmith just:

1. opened up the bolt face.

2. drilled the rivets out of the mag box ends and flipped them end over end. That makes the box plenty long enough.

3. converted to cock-on-open.

4. piddled with the frame rails a bit.

That was 1979, and it cost me a whole $150. I regretted selling it, but walked into a local store Monday, and they had a 721 in good shape in 300 H&H for $400. Yes, I bought it...

easy project .. buy a 300 weatherby mag box from numrich - then WELD IT CLOSED (the box)
and turn over to any half decent smith

I have a mag box for a 14/17 in 300/375 length. I also have a weatherby follower that fits very nicely in the mag box. I even have a win 1917 barrel chambered to 300 H&H if you decide yours is not to your liking. Give me a shout if you have any intrest in any of the above.

I converted one from 30-06 to 30-378. I got some sheet metal and cut and welded a new box to fit. It held 3 down. I cut the chamber with the old barrel inplace after opening the bolt face. I used a die grinder and a light hand to adjust the rails for feeding. It shot great and was a fun project.

The Numrich cock on opening conversion is a
POS. There isn't enough firing pin travel to
be reliable. If you put a heavier spring in it
is harder to close the bolt.

To do the receiver right, with custom bottom metal, mag box, follower, feed rail mods, surface grind the receiver, custom scope mounts, bolt handle, bolt mod., 3 POS safety, and trigger will be right at $2000.
Butch

Well - I attempted to mount a scope to the rifle over the weekend. As posted earlier, the rear receiver ears were milled off and the resulting flat deck milled off flat and drilled and tapped for scope mounts.

I was not able to find any scope mounts that would work, and what's worse, the rear deck was not milled down far enough, by about 3/16 inch, so that if a scope could have been mounted using existing mounts, there would not have been enough adjustment in the scope left. Custom mounts would be needed or more milling to finish the job.

Also found out that most modern scopes have a relatively short straight section that limits the type of mounts that can be used.

That was my breaking point, the scope mount D&T job was botched and more milling work required. I took the rifle back to the shop where I got it and by their good graces they reluctantly gave a full refund.

I'm a bit disappointing in the end. I like the 1917 action was hoping to put together a 300 H&H relatively inexpensively.

Idaho Sharpshooter found a Rem 721 300 H&H for only $400. That is rare. So far I've not seen one available at all locally much less for that price. Part of my motivation for the project is that my Father in Law used one to bag many elk. The whole family was upset when he sold that rifle off to get a 7mm.

I appreciate all the feedback - I learned a lot from this experience. It's obvious that to get a 300 H&H will require significant $.

My quest continues ...

pm sent

You can still find Remington M30's in the $500 range, a few were already D&T'd for scopes, but all can be. The one I have and others I've seen are 3 hole mount but I was able to find the proper mount. It seems 90% are 30-06 so a rechamber and a little work should do it. Most of them are COO, only the early ones are COC.

reviving this one in the hope to clarify a few things....

Aside from the magazine box modifications, is there any work required to open up the M17 action to accept 300/375H&H length cartridges or can they a handle them without modification?

Having said that, do the Winchester M17's use the same length action for 308win, 30-06, 300win mag?

Believe I have a bolt that's already been opened up. Know I have a Win action and most of the parts except safety. Pulled a new Shaw skinny barrel off. think it's a .300 rum, if not, it's .300 Win. I'd have to look to make sure now.
PM: IF interested It IS a '17

George

quote:

Originally posted by Recoil Rob:
You can still find Remington M30's in the $500 range, a few were already D&T'd for scopes, but all can be. The one I have and others I've seen are 3 hole mount but I was able to find the proper mount. It seems 90% are 30-06 so a rechamber and a little work should do it. Most of them are COO, only the early ones are COC.

I have to agree. I bought a Remington Model 30 Express for $475 about a week ago. It is not in mint condition, but could be cleaned up and be a perfectly serviceable hunting rifle...or taken apart and turned into a damned fine custom. The Model 30 Express began life as a 1917 and Remington removed the ears properly, at the factory. "Bubba" turning a good 1917 into junk is an all too common story. I also had one that had to be thrown away.

There is lots of support here, in advice and parts, if you go ahead with your project.

I have a 1917 barrel in excellent condition that is in 300 H&H; $150. I will put it in the classifieds. Winchester I recall; it is in the 200+ old barrel pile.
Use a P14 bolt; do not alter 1917 bolts or extractors.
Use a Model 70 mag box, and mill out the receiver.
Alter the rear bridge and eliminate the bolt stop spring seat.
Straighten the TG.
Mill down the rear bridge to use a flat bottom Savage Leopold base. Weld a plug in the pond if it has one.

unholy zombie thread!

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I have a 1917 barrel in excellent condition that is in 300 H&H; $150. I will put it in the classifieds. Winchester I recall; it is in the 200+ old barrel pile.
Use a P14 bolt; do not alter 1917 bolts or extractors.
Use a Model 70 mag box, and mill out the receiver.
Alter the rear bridge and eliminate the bolt stop spring seat.
Straighten the TG.
Mill down the rear bridge to use a flat bottom Savage Leopold base. Weld a plug in the pond if it has one.

This is the sort of info I was after.

Thank you.

One more question. I've seen the Winchester M17 chambered in 308win, 30-06, 300win mag. Did Winchester offer these in different action lengths or are they all built on the same 30-06 action length?

Until about 1990, not sure exactly when, all post 64 calibers were made on 375 length (not 30-06; those are pre 64) actions; only the bolt stop (easy to shorten) and mag box were different, and the mag boxes had a spacer spot welded into them; easily removed. Then they made short actions, and now, another one for the WSSMs.
I forgot one thing on the Enfields; mill out the clip guides and run the cutter across and into the existing relief for the thumb on the left top wall. That will move the right bridge front to slightly behind the extractor; it won't hurt it.
Leave the cock on closing; it is not broken and works well. I can use double pull triggers; some don't want to learn.

Right; do not butcher any collectible Enfields.

I was just told about a Rem 720 at a nearby gunshop. 30-06, with a scope.... were they D&T'd?
Under $400, so might be a good starter for a big bore.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Alter the rear bridge and eliminate the bolt stop spring seat.

So on the receiver I have right now, the round seat has been ground off and the back of the rear bridge is straight across from left to right, I.e. the rear bridge is now flush with the back of the hinge for the bolt stop and retaining screw.

Anybody want to walk me through bending the bolt stop spring to 90 so I can finish this thing up?

I should add that I have a very nice new checkered bolt stop from Nick Hughes in the white I eventually want to switch over...

quote:

Originally posted by kala_azar:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Alter the rear bridge and eliminate the bolt stop spring seat.

So on the receiver I have right now, the round seat has been ground off and the back of the rear bridge is straight across from left to right, I.e. the rear bridge is now flush with the back of the hinge for the bolt stop and retaining screw.

Anybody want to walk me through bending the bolt stop spring to 90 so I can finish this thing up?

I should add that I have a very nice new checkered bolt stop from Nick Hughes in the white I eventually want to switch over...

Like this one?

Exactly

You can save yourself a lot of headaches by buying one of our "Bad Boy VI" kits .. P14, recontoured to Rem 700, swimming pool welded up, d&t for any 700 scope base, magnafluxed, custom stainless oversize magazine box, bolt straightened, bolt stop spring modified, supplied with contoured and threaded oversized shank barrel (standard blanks won't be fat enough), just need to chamber/headspace, stock, and finish. We can supply with straight or bent bottom metal. Magnum follower. Dayton Trigger. Optional Dayton cock-on-opening conversion kit. New action screws. Probably forgot something. Oh, we have various styles of wood stocks that have enough meat in the forend for a heavier barrel contour. (Most aftermarket stocks are proportioned for the skinny Mil barrel).

Step by step instructions on bending your stop spring,
Step one, cut it off .2 inch (or so) longer than the little step left at the rear of the bridge after you cut the spring seat area off. Look at it and you will see how much is needed for the bend.
Step two, heat the back 1/4 inch or so end of the spring; dark red or so, not too much.
Step three; bend it 90 degrees. with pliers.
It's easy and you won't anneal the spring even though you think you will.

Great, I’m going to give it a try on the old original spring and stop before I go messing around with the new one

I use a "forging block" to make the 90 degree bend in the right place .. and as stated you don't need to redo the heat treatment of the spring if you localize the heating. In theory, as long as you keep most of the spring below 735 or so, you won't change the spring properties. You can achieve this by clamping the main part of the limb in a vise, preferably between copper plates.