What is the limit to the length of cartridge that one can fit in a Kurtz?
If we can fit 375h&h,416Rigby in a std 98 that was originally designed for the 7mmMauser,what is possible with the Kurtz? Would a long throated 7x57 for 160,175gn pills fit?
What is the (magzine box)action length difference between a Kurtz,Std 98,and Magnum?

I am not sure of the magazine box length, but the Mauser company used 51mm and 54mm cartridge cases in them. Ruger & Winchester both use standard length actions for the 7X57.....

Kurtz are pretty rare birds. If it's even possible to modify it to hold the round, it would be highly unadvisable. One thing you've got to keep in mind is you get a little aftermarket support with the bigger cartridges in the standard M98.

I'd find a nice little Mexican 98 and use that. They're a little shorter than a regular M98. They're plentyful enough, you won't have to give an arm and a leg for one and some serious collecter isn't going to call you a butcher They were made especially for the 7X57. Hard to go wrong with purpose built.

Terry


Picture time, Here's clean little Mexican I'm about have done in a 7X57.

Thanks for the photos.
I did see a H&W kurtz action (new manufacture)at SCI Reno.I was not expecting to find an old one,and at the price they would charge for it, a person would be better off with a new one,and it would be made in high quality chromemolly,square bridges ,etc
The H&W was chambered in a WSM cartridge,but I dont know what length box they had. Maybe it was only to suit the factory round length(2.8")I am unsure. Too short for what I have in mind.I thought it smarter/quicker to ask the question on this forum first,H&W dont have an email.
Also,why do you say it is highly unadvisable to modify a kurtz??
But like I said,if we can turn a std 98 into a 416 Rigby(2.90" case length), can we not do something similar with a Kurtz,by putting a longer round than what it was originally designed for?

Terry,
man, that is a great looking 36.

Woodjack,
I reckon you could do all that, but every 98 in the world would hold the 7x57 and there's at least 3 (if not 4 more) makers of NEW 98's that will do the 7x57 for under $400 each, and there's no action gunsmithing ($$$$$)

You could always get the kurtz, in 7wsm, and load it down.

to me, though, a kurtz means 250 savage

jeffe

Waffenfabrik Hein also makes new Kurtz-type actions, and if I'm not mistaken so does Granite Mountain.

Terry, that is a great looking Mex, did you do the polishing? Blackburn bottom metal? IMO the Mexican Mauser is the best 98 Mauser for the 7x57. Also the 6.5, 250, 308, etc. I have two squirreled away.

Yea, It's got Blackburn bottom metal. I did the polishing. Why, I don't know. It's on it's way to Mark Stratton for a complete surface grind. All the shinny metal will be on Marks shop floor before long

Actually it's a 1910 and not a 1936. I bought the cocking piece separate from the action. I think it's the best of both worlds, You get the cool cocking piece, but you also get a thumb cut that doesn't protrude below the stock line.

Hey Woodjack, How much was one of these Kurtz WSM Mausers? Sounds neat!

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
Yea, It's got Blackburn bottom metal. I did the polishing. Why, I don't know. It's on it's way to Mark Stratton for a complete surface grind. All the shinny metal will be on Marks shop floor before long

Actually it's a 1910 and not a 1936. I bought the cocking piece separate from the action. I think it's the best of both worlds, You get the cool cocking piece, but you also get a thumb cut that doesn't protrude below the stock line.

Hey Woodjack, How much was one of these Kurtz WSM Mausers? Sounds neat!
Terry

Beautiful little action! Nice polishing job!

quote:

TC1: I think it's the best of both worlds, You get the cool cocking piece, but you also get a thumb cut that doesn't protrude below the stock line.

You also don't get the ugly oval gas port on the left side of the receiver.

I'll look up the specs later, but a Kurtz action is too short for a 7x57. It was meant for the 8x51, .250 Savage or the 8.15x46.

The Intermediate action, like the Mexican and the 93, was meant for the 7x57.

I don't know about the 8,15x46R (were repeaters ever chambered for it?), but the other cartridge of the Kurzsystem is the 6,5x54 Mauser.

Carcano

Carcano91 wins the prize for correct spelling! (The German word "kurz" does not contain a "T").

I don't read too well either

Terry

Gentlemen

Wasn't 6,5X50 offered in Kurzsystem?

Cheers
/JOHAN

To destroy a Kurz Mauser by modification would be akin to incest or child molestation...

Build yourself a nice 250 Savage on one and let it go at that, the action alone is worth a small bloody fortune as is...

TC1,
the H&W newly manufactured kurtz,was about US$5500 for the complete action. The complete rifle was in the many 000's more.
I have happen to come across a picture of one:
http://www.martiniandhagngunmakers.com
look under "custom guns"
The Hein actions dont appeal as much as a mauser. Granite Mountain Mausers has discontinued its Kurtz length.
Collectors dont have to dispair I am not interest in an orignal. I prefer actions in modern chromemolly alloys with the high intensity cartridge loading of today.

quote:

To destroy a Kurz Mauser by modification would be akin to incest or child molestation...

Mr. Atkinson has such a way with words...

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
What is the limit to the length of cartridge that one can fit in a Kurtz?
If we can fit 375h&h,416Rigby in a std 98 that was originally designed for the 7mmMauser,what is possible with the Kurtz? Would a long throated 7x57 for 160,175gn pills fit?
What is the (magzine box)action length difference between a Kurtz,Std 98,and Magnum?

If you want something a little shorter that will work why not get a M48 Yugo (action, rifle)? They are a "medium" Mauser action a bit shorter than the 98. And they are plentiful and cheap...

Roi

hello Ray,
If we are destroying a Kurz to fit a7x57, then surely we must also be destroying any 98 once we put a375h&h or 416Rig. in it, are we not?
The fact that people now produce the kurz action,does not make it so rare to me. I am not sentimental about things like that,I woul rather have anew high quality version anyday of the week.and like I said,I willnot be touching an original one.Since when has the 250 SAv. been the original cartridge that the little action was barreled in? Does not seem to be the authentic cartridge anyway for that rifle/action. Educate me on this one if I am wrong.
TEX21, an M48 model I will consider.

I seem to have found part of my answer
http://www.labyrinth.codfiles.com/kar98k.htm
this site tells that the Kurz was chambered as a WWII military sniper rifle in 7.92x57
GunsAmerica has acouple of Kurz $4400-4900 at the moment.

i believe about 6500 original K mausers were made,6.5x54 mauser,250 sav,8x51 mauser.51mmcase is about the longest that works,still gets 243 win,250-3000,6.5/08,7/08,308,358.the kar98k was not a kurtz length actionbut the standard 98 mil.mauser also made an intermediate length action rigby used on 275 rigbys,believe it was 09 ?small ring.use a33/40,vz33,or mex.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Woodjack:
Since when has the 250 SAv. been the original cartridge that the little action was barreled in? Does not seem to be the authentic cartridge anyway for that rifle/action. Educate me on this one if I am wrong. QUOTE]

The Kurz action was chambered for the .250 Savage by Mauser from before WWI. The majority of the custom rifles made on the Kurz were also chambered for the .250 Savage.
Fred Adolph a New York state gunmaker imported Kurz barreled actions and stocked them, they where chambered for the 6.5X54 Mauser and sold them as “. 25- Adolphâ€.

Montana old me that their SA is perfect for the 7x57. It's a bit longer than most SA's and will work fine.

As in MRC 1999? I agree its a great action and the size is more intermediate than short. I will probably buy another befor eI'm gone but not if I wanted a petite rifle. Just NOT the way to go. It is longer than a Sako L61R and just about an 8th shorter than a CZ Safari in 416 Rigby and as big around as the CZ.

Thankyou for the clarification Michael about the 250 Sav.
Check this little Kurz out:
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976520873.htm
someone please post this picture if you can.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
As in MRC 1999? I agree its a great action and the size is more intermediate than short. I will probably buy another befor eI'm gone but not if I wanted a petite rifle. Just NOT the way to go. It is longer than a Sako L61R and just about an 8th shorter than a CZ Safari in 416 Rigby and as big around as the CZ.

Yep, the MRC 1999 SA. You're right though, it's no junior miss.

Woodjack:

I beleive there is some confusion on your terminology here. I could not open the link for the 98K, but I think i know where you are going with that. The 98K was a Kurz as in short rifle, but it did not have a Mauser "kurz" action that was shorter than the standard 98. Mauser made 98 Kurz action sporting rifles in .250 Savage just like the 6.5x54 you posted a link to.

There is a world of difference between opening up a 98 for a .375 and opening up a Kurz for a 7x57. Millions and millions and millions of standard M98s were produced, with only a few thousands Kurz actions being made. Additionally, for quite some time it was all but impossible to get a M98 magnum length action that would take the .375 with no modification.

THe 1999 Montana action makes a damn fine boat anchor, but a small rifle action it aint!!!