I would like to build a scaled down std.98 action to suit the 6.5x54 mannlicher.
I am talking about;
-smaller bolt dia.
-shorter bolt.
- 3.1" magbox(could suit 7x57 aswell!)
- scaled down bottom metal
- smaller barrel thread,( maybe 7/8", not sure)
-smaller action dia(1.15"),but maintaining scaled down large ring feature(1.250").

in other words everything scaled dowwn to suit.

I am sure some will say im crazy,but they sure would love it once it was done.

well.....do it then...what ya waiting for.....am I missing something here?

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
I would like to build a scaled down action 98 to suit the 6.5x54 mannlicher.
I am talking about;
-smaller bolt dia.
-shorter bolt.
- scaled down bottom metal
- smaller barrel thread,( maybe 7/8", not sure)
-smaller action dia,but maintaining scaled down large ring feature.

in other words everything scaled dowwn to suit.

I am sure some will say im crazy,but they sure would love it once it was done.

The CZ 527 is almost there. If they had that chambered in 6.5x54 I would buy one tomorrow. That or the Carcano but I'd like it in .264 dia. roger

Can the bolt face on Daly Mini Mauser or CZ be opened enough to accept the 6.5x54. That first, then deal with the magazine.

The closest "scaled down" factory action that might work for this that I have seen would be the Savage Model 20. They're sort of a Mauser/Springfield hybrid.

Or, like vapodog says, build it or have one built just for you. Should'nt cost more than 5 grand.

Just had another thought, how about one of the Mauser clones currently chambered for the 7.62x39 as a starting point?

Craigster & Vapodog,

who will build me one? Do you have a recommendation? Maybe FredWells Shop?

you are wanting a true "kurtz" mauser... that's a couple grand...

or just buy a mrc small action

jeffe

The Kimber 84M action is chambered in 260 Rem and that action might be smaller than the one you propose!

It has a diameter of about 1.15", 6" long and a .590" bolt diameter.

Or is that too easy?

Jeffosso,

No, a Kurz is not what I want. I said scaled down to match the proportion of the cartridge , , not just shortened like the Kurz.
The 6.5 MS is like a minature 30/06 so I want a rifle reduced in proportion overall, not just weight and length.
A good similar example of what I mean is the the Brno ZKW465 hornet,it is scaled to the cartridge.
Another example is the GMA Heavy express magnum,scaled to the 505 case.
They both maintain the large ring feature and approriate bolt dia for cartridge.

Savage 99,
yes your gettin toward the idea, but no a Kimber does not do it.

You might try Waffenfabrik Hein.

Those guys sure do some amazing stuff that's made to order. Perhaps they could fix you up.

If you've got a deep enough checkbook, I'm sure you can find somebody that will build you whatever you want. I once saw a rifle action that had been highly modified around the .32acp cartridge. Can't recall the details because at the time I couldn't imagine how/why somebody would be compelled to do something like that.

But I am now older and more tolerant, (note I didn't say "wiser"). So if this is what you want to do, get out the checkbook and make it happen. Then come back and show us the photos so we can all ooohhh and aaahhh.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
Craigster & Vapodog,

who will build me one? Do you have a recommendation? Maybe FredWells Shop?

You're asking for quite a lot IMO.....any good machine shop will do it for you.....but as previously said you better have deep pockets.....Seriously now....I'm talking in excess of ten grand for an action.

On second thought the libility would keep a lot of shops away.....

Most gunsmiths don't have the facility to build this and I'd suspect that you will have to find a full service machine shop...one willing to accept the risk.

All I can say is to go asking....and be willing to entertain very large numbers.....seriously...ten grand is not going to surprise me for what you're asking.

Woodjack, I think Craigster is onto the track that would work for you. I was fortunate to shoot Rod Rogers and Larry Tahler's Tigercat rifle based on the Charles Daly mini mauser that they had reworked. It was sweet! An absolute tack driver to boot. It was chambered in a small (.20 Vartarg I think) cartridge, but it might work for the 6.5 x 54, Rod knows what it takes to make that action refined and really work well--It would be worth a call to see what they think, if it will work Rod will know.

They are the guys at http://www.Serengetistockworks.com/

I'd give them a call, they have worked on several projects for me and are just super folks.

Good Luck--Don

6.5x54MS has quite a long COL for those long 160gr bullets, memory fails but I think it's in the 3.1" range.

The case head is only marginaly smaller in diameter than the standard x57 rounds, I think you would barely notice the difference of a scaled down to size action.

Sounds good. How about a design with a ring diameter of 1.250. A bolt diameter of .625. Barrel threads 7/8-16 tpi. I think it should be a square bridge design. Barrel it 21 inches, light contour barrel .535 muzzle Dia. Get a real nice stick of Turkish from the Dressels for it. Skeleton butt plate, skeleton gripcap, barrel band sling swivel. Make some nice custom rings for it too. Oh man I can taste it now, The venison that is. That would be one sweet lightwieght Whitetail harvesting unit for sure.
Timan

Woodjack, the solution to your problem is spelt "Mannlicher Schoenaur 1903". Why reinvent the perfect woods rifle?

My references show that the Kurz Mauser was furnished in the 6.5 Mauser, and later in the 6.5 MS because the later round was way more popular.

I always think Sako for scaled actions. Will an L579 or Forester action work for you? Of course the MS '03 would be a natural.

jim

I would think you could use the CZ 527 and use that as your platform. I am not sure if it is long enough though. But I can visualize putting an Orbendorf bolt handle, 3 position safety aand maybe some surface grinding. And you would have a super cute minature 98 action.

I would bet you could get someone like Burgess, or Wisner to design the safety and shroud for you for not a lot of money. At least compared to building one from the ground up.

Timan,
Youve got the picture

All the other posters, Im listening to what you say.

1894,
there is a good weight saving on the idea. There is excess metal in a 98 anyway for the 7x57(bolt/reciever dia) if that was not the case we would not be able to chamber the magnum case heads(404 Jeff.). Bolt dia can be reduced to around .590" (15mm), for the 6.5MS, Action body dia to around 1.15",Large ring feature around 1.250". Then you can mount a leupold compact etc.
Give you an example, increasing a .700" rem700 bolt to .730"(less than 5% increase) increases weight by 10%.
A granitemountain square bridge mauser std98 with .700"bolt and bottom metal weighs 3lb 7oz
A Sako 579 weighs 2lb5oz,Sako Large L61 2lb13oz(all with steel bottom metal,follower,screws).
Id say my action will get down to some where between the two Sakos. (2lb10oz?)
Barrel,bottom metal, stock, will also be slimmer and/or shorter etc. With scope you will be looking at around just under 7lb.
Todays 140gn pills are all thats needed(for me) these days for the 6.5MS, so 160s' are not an issue.
If you look at the Hagn single shot,
large 4lb, medium 2.5lb, small 2lb.
if you handle these, that 1/2lb plus the other weight savings between the small amd medium feels noticably different in a small calibre finnished rifle .Cant see the effect on a bolt rifle being any different.

http://www.african-hunter.com/6_5_x_54_mannlicher-schoenauer.htm

look at the above link,too see the diff. between the MS and the 06',375H&H(which are regularly built in std98 actions) . Unlike Winchester building 22Hornets on pre 64 actions,I see good reason and viability(enough size difference) to build a scaled down 98 to suit MS. A little bit of vision is whats needed.

At the end of the day it would be cheaper to buy a ULA or Colt Light Rifle and build up the action/bolt to resemble a Mauser than make one from scratch.

TigerGate,

You cant make a silk purse from a sows ear.
Holland and Purdey dont buy chapius doubles and turn them into their own sidelock doubles, nor do they try and convert rem700 into M98s'.
Nor will I. Different playing fields. There are no short cuts to excellence.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
TigerGate,

Holland and Purdey dont try and convert rem700 into M98s'.

Indeed they don't but try and discuss the origin of the mauser actions they use ie are they DWM or what and they look completely blank, couple that with the total surface grind they do plus gun trade innuendo from smiths who have been approached by them for actions and you get the impression they are not at all fussy about their source M98s

Woodjack,

I see the point now - I've never been very weight orientated but the savings were brought home to me last night. I compared my 243 sako AII with a M98 30-06. The extra 1.5lbs of the M98 appear to be 90% in the action.....

Whilst we are on the subject of smaller mausers, does anyone such as granite mountain etc make a double square bridge mauser short action in standard bolt face?

One of the masters of scaling the M98 action up and down is Frank Wells of Wells' Sport Shop in Prescott, AZ. Not cheap, of course, but if you want it done right, he's the man.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
TigerGate,

You cant make a silk purse from a sows ear.
Holland and Purdey dont buy chapius doubles and turn them into their own sidelock doubles, nor do they try and convert rem700 into M98s'.
Nor will I. Different playing fields. There are no short cuts to excellence.

True enough but a scaled-down mauser is pretty much a sow's ear no matter how much it cost to build.

Tiggergate,

do your sentiments toward the idea of a scaled mauser for the 6.5x54MS also apply to other scaled actions. ie;

- BrnoZKW465 Hornet
-GMA Heavyexpress action for 505 case(1.50"ring)
-What about when they scale a double rifle action for the 9.3x74r. (compared to a much heavier 375H&H/ or 470NE version)

are they all sow ears as well in your eyes?

I didn't mean to come off as harsh as that sounded...what I meant was that you would spend in excess of $10,000 to build a rifle worth about $3000 if you ever wanted to sell it. As far as looks, I would agree it would be very nice looking.

Tiggergate,

10K cars end up being worth 3K and less, just a fact of life. Sometimes the pleasure comes from creation, not just from ownership or $$ value.

Hagn makes a scaled up version(4lb) and scaled down version (2lb)of its original regular size(2.5lb) falling block. I am sure the manufacture of the first of any of those actions started off much more expensive, but now they are all between $2300-$2900. I am sure there were people saying whats the point of a smaller and larger version,but now that they are here, they are selling.and that small one is super dandy for a 257R.
The fact that this scaled 98 action would also suit the 7x57,gives it good potential. I can see someone ordering a Hartmann Weiss true magnum mauser length action in 300H&H,375H&H, and on occassion, ordering a sweet little 7x57 or 6.5MS on the scaled down action to complement it. But no, were not talking about average incomes or high volume sales, never really is the case with best grade rifles.
And I suppose its a bit like the art world and what sports people get payed, what people value and whats payed for something can astound us.

1894Mk2,

Yes GMA does a Kurz length Dble square bridge98. Magbox length 2.8". 2lb15oz, 1.30" ring dia.
Std. bolt face should not be a problem, I have seen one in 7mm/08.

I am using the fact that there aren't any being currently made to judge the market for a rifle built on one. In the end, it's worth what it will sell for and you could get lucky and make 10 grand, not lose 7...

And you'e right that a man can spend his money on what pleases him, not others.