On-line instructions make it look easy. Any tips or potential problems?

Is the left hand model the same as right hand?

Why? Loads are book, no pressure signs.

Expect a certain failure rate. I make sure I have 3 extractors and rivets before I start. After the first 1000 you can actually convince yourself that they are getting easier. I know people who say they don't mind doing and paying their income tax too.

Gosh, speerchucker,
What an optimist!

I've heard that the M700 extractors are prone to failure, and that smiths often convert to Sako extractors. I wonder why Rem (Freedom Arms) hasn't made a correction. The 700 has only been in production for 55 years +/-.

I can mill a slot for a Sako extractor in about the same amount of time and with zero failures. Of course, you lose the three rings of steel thing. Which does work, BTW; I have seen blowups and the shooters didn't even know what happened.

quote:

Originally posted by Brice:
Gosh, speerchucker,
What an optimist!

I've heard that the M700 extractors are prone to failure, and that smiths often convert to Sako extractors. I wonder why Rem (Freedom Arms) hasn't made a correction. The 700 has only been in production for 55 years +/-.

Actually most 700 Remingtons NEVER, have an extractor failure. The extractors work just fine. It's the installation part that works less than fine. I install the Sako extractors too.

You have to realize that the customers know far more about this stuff than we actually do dpcd. After all, they have the big arm chair and the big putor monitor and I just have to fall back on my two years at CST, 35 years of experience and every factory warranty course that came to town. With that being said, whatever the customer wants, the customer generally gets. The reason for this is not because I'm a chicken-shit that's afraid to stand up to them. It's the same reason that all the women in the bar fixate on that one special guy, who reaches into his pants, and whips out his GREAT BIG Visa Gold Card !

It's all about the money. he he he

Yeah, I find that the customer is usually wrong but as long as he is paying for it.....
Remington will never change from the C extractor, which is actually quite reliable, (US Army tested and approved too) as any cut into the bolt face (like when fitting a Sako or M16 extractor) will defeat the three rings of steel, safety factor. As I said, it actually works. You don't want to introduce a gas path in the system. Although I do it all the time. LIke when you use a case full of pistol powder in your 243; the shooter ruined two rifles in the same day. True story. He didn't know anything was wrong except the bolt(s) wouldn't open

I like to have a spare rivet but other than that I've never had a problem changing one. Try not to bend it as you "pop" it into the recess. The bucking bar available at Brownells works very well, and I consider it essential to the job.

I never saw where the OP mentioned a riveted extractor. Some were and some weren't.

Anyone who can mill a slot for, and install, a Sako type extractor in less time than it takes to install a factory Rem extractor gets my vote for gunsmith of the year!

Yes, it is of the riveted variety. Tiny rivets, like the bubbles (boobies) in the wine. Can you use the non-riveted extractor in its place?

Could I use a Dremel tool to grind a slot for a Sako extractor? (THAT WAS NOT A SERIOUS QUESTION.)

"Can you use the non riveted extractor in it's place?" NO.

quote:

The bucking bar available at Brownells works very well, and I consider it essential to the job.

That the same as the V block kits?

I said; "about", meaning, in about twenty times the time it takes for riveting. But I am Gunsmith of the year.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I said; "about", meaning, in about twenty times the time it takes for riveting. But I am Gunsmith of the year.

Glad you cleared that up dpcd. I was going to ask who your source of 10 grain, ball peen hammers was. he he he he

Funny one, that word "about". Covers a multitude of brash statements.

Gee, you machinists and gunsmiths are a touchy bunch. I suspect that comes with the precision work you do. Anyway, while waiting for the replacement extractor (and rivet) to arrive, I think I've learned how to install it properly. The only problem is what to use for a bucking bar/anvil. I really don't want to buy one for $90 from Brownells. I've come up with a few jury-rig ideas, none of which seem adequate. Any suggestions?

Check this out.
http://www.practicalmachinist....staking-tool-206035/

Thanks, RayO,
That is very similar to an idea I had, which was to cut away part of a drill bit (back end) with a Dremel. The cartridge case method will likely work better, and is certainly much less time consuming.

If you happen to be feeling really ambitious you can whittle out one of these. One day I will make a pretty version of it when this one breaks. I've been saying that for about 20 years. I'm not pretty either so I don't want a stupid tool upstaging me!

It's made from an old punch. If you can't figure it out from the photos, you probably shouldn't be making it.



Gunsmith Rod Henrickson 700 extractor tool by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

That certainly answers the question of whether or not I remove the ejector. You smiths and machinists may be a little on the grumpy side, but you sure are generous with help and advice. Thanks.

Actually I thought twice about posting a picture of it. I actually made that tool about 20 years ago after the Brownells one that I had bought in school at CST mashed flat after about the 60th extractor. Back then we didn't have carbide tooling to cut rock hard, tough crap like hardened punches in the mill. So I hacked it out with the only thing nasty enough to cut that crap in those days which would have been chain saw files and a grinder.

But I'm going to make another one now that I feel so ashamed. It's going to be SO PRETTY, that dpcd will probably unscrew the "Gunsmith of The Year" crown off his little, pointed head and hand it to me in shame! Yes I'm going to. You betcha I am Bub.

The extractor arrived yesterday. Will report if I am successful, or Bubba of the Year.

Ok, I will relinquish my crown for the rest of 2015 to Speer.
Hail to the King. For now.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Ok, I will relinquish my crown for the rest of 2015 to Speer.
Hail to the King. For now.

WHOA NOW ! ! ! !

Hold the fawk on there Sunshine. I didn't say I was just going to jump up and make a new one today, in 2015, of this decade. I just said I would get around to it. Damned pushy people.

Besides, this one ain't bustimicated yet. he he he

Post a pic when you bust it and make another one, and then you can have the crown, the castle, and the 70 virgins that go with the title of Gunsmith of the Decade..

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Post a pic when you bust it and make another one, and then you can have the crown, the castle, and the 70 virgins that go with the title of Gunsmith of the Decade..

You do realize that if you can find a virgin these days there is probably a very good reason for them being a virgin ! he he he he

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Post a pic when you bust it and make another one, and then you can have the crown, the castle, and the 70 virgins that go with the title of Gunsmith of the Decade..

You do realize that if you can find a virgin these days there is probably a very good reason for them being a virgin ! he he he he

The only ones you find today are mothers and baby sisters.

First off, thanks for addressing this.

There is nothing wrong with the 700's extraction if there were Remington would have addressed it 30 years ago, and the Marine Corps M40 sniper rifle would be modified to accept a M16 or Sako extractor.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
First off, thanks for addressing this.

There is nothing wrong with the 700's extraction if there were Remington would have addressed it 30 years ago, and the Marine Corps M40 sniper rifle would be modified to accept a M16 or Sako extractor.

Many argue, but the 700 extractor is actually a lot more effective than some of the replacements that people have put in over the years. It is a sheering extractor, not a camming extractor like the Sako style. When faced with a stuck case, the 700 extractor will either cut through the rim or it will tear out the rim out the bolt face. Camming extractors will simply slip off. There are good and bad points to either scenario but the 700 is a tough little monster despite its whimpy appearance and low mass.

quote:

but the 700 is a tough little monster despite its whimpy appearance and low mass.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
First off, thanks for addressing this.

There is nothing wrong with the 700's trigger if there were Remington would have addressed it 30 years ago, and the Marine Corps M40 sniper rifle would be modified to accept a new trigger.

Edited to show how silly your post was.

quote:

Originally posted by speerchucker30x378:

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
First off, thanks for addressing this.

There is nothing wrong with the 700's extraction if there were Remington would have addressed it 30 years ago, and the Marine Corps M40 sniper rifle would be modified to accept a M16 or Sako extractor.

Many argue, but the 700 extractor is actually a lot more effective than some of the replacements that people have put in over the years. It is a sheering extractor, not a camming extractor like the Sako style. When faced with a stuck case, the 700 extractor will either cut through the rim or it will tear out the rim out the bolt face. Camming extractors will simply slip off. There are good and bad points to either scenario but the 700 is a tough little monster despite its whimpy appearance and low mass.

Or it will break.

My gunsmith has a field kit with all the tools he needs to change an extractor in the field, and he will recommend the same to any Remington customer. He also reattaches a lot of Remington bolt handles. He had a lot of local LE work until those guys got tired of Remingtons and bought AWs.

Time out, guys. I'm baaaaaaaack.
The extractor and rivet arrived. I installed it using RayO's link which shows the Brownell's method using a cartridge case as an anvil/bucking bar. Easy peasy. Except, it doesn't work. The extractor will usually not slip over the rim of a case in the chamber. When it does, it will not cam the case free of the chamber. Also, the ejector will not push the case off of the bolt head.

I'm nearly certain I have the extractor right-side-up. I did file the rivet end flush with the bolt OD. The rivet head is a bit proud on the inside of the extractor. I can't measure it, but would say in the neighbor hood of .010".

Any suggestions? I'm at your mercy.

Ryan

I am guessing you are a gunsmith who went to the Colorado School of Trades, a military gunsmithing school or the one in Ferlach, Austria who changes the extractors on thousands of 700s every year.

If none of those is true, I am guessing you are just a forum expert who has a PHD in BS.

No problem !

Pull out the extractor and throw it away. Grab another extractor and rivet out of the box.

Use a flat, fine stone or 400 wet & dry on a flat surface and polish about .003 inch from the top and bottom of the extractor and break the sharp edges so that it can't catch on the machined surfaces of the bolt face as in C and D.

The extractor is shaped like A. Clamp it in a machinist clamp or small vise and give a slight bend at the green arrow. Don't bend it to sharp or far or it will break. You just want to increase the purchase a bit.

The extractor hook will look like #1 on a profile view. Use a dremel or handy grinder to decrease the flat on the top to figure #2 so the rim of the cartridge won't catch the edge and shave when closing the bolt. Polish it to a #600 wet and dry finish or matchless if you have a wheel.

Cut a slight angle on the top on the area between the rivet and the hook. It should blend right in with the modification that you made to the hook face. Then do the same to the tail. This will keep the rim from catching on this area as well.

Then install the rivet using about a .200 inch radius as an anvil. Like the small anvil the Brownells tool uses or the one like in the photo I posted. If you use a full diameter radius like a cartridge it will peen out the slight bend you made at the start. The anvil should rest on the rivet head. It should not touch the extractor or it will flatten your extractor against the back of the bolt rim and it won't work. After riveting it in you can dress the inside and outside of the rivet and try it in the gun with a case. If it closes to hard you can take a small punch and hammer and strike the extractor from the inside just ahead of the bend you made to decrease the purchase.

I actually lied before when I posted. I have a 5% failure rate. Unless I have one extractor or rivet. In that case I have a 99% failure rate. The extractors know this. You can't act casual and fool them. They can read your mind. They hate you and they hate your family and all of your friends.

I wasn't kidding when I said they were a pain in the ass to install and it's a learning curve. You're going to wreak a few. I did warranty for Remington for 15 years and I can humbly say that I have probably wreaked a hundred or more. One last thing. I don't know about others experiences. But I don't bother trying to reinstall the same extractor again. Once it fails, it hits the round file. In days gone by I did try it but more often than not they would fail the second and third time too. Some are to soft, some to hard, some out of spec and some just don't deserve to live.

That's all I got.

Gunsmith Rod Henrickson Remington Extractor by Rod Henrickson, on Flickr

Thanks for the link and the detailed advice. I blame you guys here for seducing me into thinking that this must be a fairly straightforward task. I will do it again, being a persistent, even stubborn type.

BWW, no I'm not a gunsmith, though I do know about Trinidad and Ferlach. Does that count? I'm an amateur who enjoys learning, even by trial and error. The extractor I'm replacing was installed by a well respected smith who is a member of the ACGG. (Not our Jim Kobe.)

Incidentally, this is a LH rifle. There is no LH extractor listed, but I will call Brownells Monday just in case. I noticed that the hook part of the extractor is angled slightly, apparently to cam out the case a few. thousandths. I also noted that it would not be possible to install the piece upside-down. The angle is correct to pull on the rim when lifting the bolt handle. Seems odd considering that the extractor is intended to be ambidextrous.

Again, thanks for the help.

.
Actually, now that I read back. There is nothing wrong with the Walker trigger either. The reason so many people get hurt with it is because of: "Customer oriented idiocy" which is brought on by the lack of intelligence.

People insist on setting the trigger below its recommended settings and then proceed to point the muzzle at themselves or someone else (which is not to smart) and then messing around with it and banging it around which causes it to discharge and put a big hole in something, or someone.

The second problem is that people feel they can go for 30 years without cleaning out the trigger and polymerized oil and dirt build up. It gets to the point that when the trigger is pulled, it sticks in the rearward position and when a second round is chambered the sears don't fully catch and it fires on closing. Or, the idiot puts it on safe and then pulls the Trigger which sticks back. When he releases the safe, the gun fires and he kills himself or someone else because he had it pointed that way.

Remington finally said PHUK-Q and started putting in the nice 30 to 40 pound non adjustable lawyer triggers that we see today and Timney is getting rich selling after market triggers.

I'm not super, team-Remington. I'm just sick of people blaming their stupidity on everyone else these days.

OH MY ! Did I just say that?

Morons are a fact of life. Einstein remarked that the most common element is nitrogen. Second is ignorance.

People lose their mind over putting Jewell triggers in Remington 700s and then like you talk about not cleaning them. The Jewell design is meant for precision and it is important that the thing is clean.

I would have Huber design triggers in every 700 I own if they were about $200. Beyond that I clean mine very well and work hard to ensure that they are ok.

Well, I'm making progress, I think. Yesterday I sat in my shop with the rifle and stripped bolt, put on my Opti-Visor, and studied the bolt and extractor for an hour. I put several cases in the bolt face to see how well they fit, were held, etc. First, I concluded that the rivet head was too high, so using my trusty Dremel (the same one I use to regulate doubles) I took a little off the top. Better. A case would now seat in the face without being tilted. I could then chamber and extract a case, except that cases seemed a little hard to chamber, and sometimes the extractor would slip off the rim when lifting the bolt handle. I FL sized some well-lubed cases, running them in and out of the die several times. (I normally neck size only using a Redding bushing die.) The cases are still a bit snug. The barrel is a Lilja, and I suspect the chamber is on the small side of specs. Today I will print the SAAMI drawings and carefully measure cases. Don't have any chamber casting material on hand.

So, one problem is that my cases are getting over-used. They should still extract. Before installing a new extractor I will again study the problem in the hope of learning just how this system is supposed to work. And it looks so simple. (That's what I tried to tell the damned fool!, Spearchucker is saying.)

This is my go-to alpine rifle, and it wears a Jewell trigger, thank you very much. I clean it with trichloro-ethane and compressed air.

Please mods, don't 86 me from the forum.

quote:

so using my trusty Dremel (the same one I use to regulate doubles) I took a little off the top.