Here's a BSA RF action that I recently converted to CF. There are many ways to do each step of this conversion and many ways to do the overall conversion itself, this is only one of them. It's the method taught at TSJC by Bill Prator to Dennis Sorensen and me in '66.

This method does not change the angle of the block but rather it offsets the striker nose to a lower position in the face of the block, ~.110" lower, to strike the center of the bore line.

First close the original firing pin hole, by whatever method you choose. For this particular project I chose welding with low-carbon rod.

Now face off the weldment lump on the block down to be level with the remaining block face, again by whatever method you choose. I used a small grinding wheel spun by a hand-grinder and finished up with stones.

Now mark the location of the hole for the new offset striker nose, again using one of several possible methods. I'm fortunate enough to have made a jig/fixture for this operation by using a cut-off section of chambered Cadet barrel. I simply screw the chambered stub into the receiver face with an unprimed case in place, and then mark the new location on the now-blank block face through the empty primer pocket. Here's a pic of the fixture with a case in place.
I spin the case against the block face to check for any tilt or lumps or low spots; the spun case will leave minute traces of brass on the high spots and so ID them for leveling.

Now drill through the block face using a drill smaller than the final intended striker nose OD, and use the new hole to mark the face of the striker after first cutting back the original striker nose. Double-check for alignment and correct the new block hole as necessary, then drill the striker hole down close to its final depth while it's out of the block. Now reinstall the striker in the block and use your larger final-diameter drill to enlarge and align the two new holes. Now install your new striker nose in the new hole in the striker, again by whatever method you choose. I used silver-solder and here's a pic of the offset striker nose.

Often these old actions will be found with Bubba'ed mainsprings and this one was no exception. Here's a pic of the Bubba job next to an original one, and BTW the 1903 Springfield mainspring is the same size and makes a splendid replacement.

The new block hole will need deburring and clearance inside, so I used a rat-tail needle file inserted from the rear and turned BACKWARDS by hand. No stroking back-&-forth, only a rotation by hand in the COUNTER-clockwise direction until the file is biting all the way to the front of the now-tapered striker hole.

Now cut off the new striker nose and then shape & polish a hemisphere on the tip that protrudes at least 0.040" from the face of the block. Up to 0.060" is OK but 0.040" works fine too.

Here's a pic of the new striker hole shown against the original unaltered RF extractor.

And here's another pic showing what I'll send the client. Notice that I've included a case with primer strike to illustrate whether the new strike will be acceptable or not.

Like I said, this is only one method. The only machine tools used in this conversion were a lathe to make the centering fixture, a hand grinder to remove most of the weldment lump and a hand-held drill motor. A propane torch can heat for the silver-solder but I used oxy-acetylene since it's quicker although not as clean.

Hope a few of you find this useful.
Regards, Joe

Joe,
Thanks for the post. I believe this is what the forum is for.
Butch

Thanks Butch, that's kinda what I thought too.

I've done this conversion several other ways and would like to hear from others on the subject.
Regards, Joe

Joe,

I appreciate you creating this how-to for us as well. I'll most likey try the conversion within the thext couple of years and will surely refer back to this post of yours to increase my chances for a successful outcome.

Thank you.

Ian

I do have printed instructions on converting a Ruger#1 to rimfire available.
Butch

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
Thanks Butch, that's kinda what I thought too.

I've done this conversion several other ways and would like to hear from others on the subject.
Regards, Joe

I have a Cadet, has an Eric Johnson rimfire barrel marked 1947 on it, beautiful trigger. I contacted a gunsmith with an online presence as to converting it to .218 and he replied he wouldn't get near it because of the liability.

That aside, what is the largest diameter pistol cartridge that could be worked into one of these? I know the Bee is a popular conversion, what others? Thanks.

Tin Can,
I believe the collector value of one with a Johnson would keep me from doing it on your particular barrel. Get another to do the conversion. I have a Martini International built by Karl Kenyon. It is too valuable and shoots too good to convert. Find another one.
Butch

What Butch said. Eric Johnson was one of the very best and most famous of the 22LR accuracy builders, please don't mess with any of his rifles!

The following is only my opinion and thus is worth exactly what it's costing you, but it's based on the solid & repeatable experiences of myself and others, dating back to the '60s.

The Cadet has long been proven safe with the 45 Colt, 44 Magnum, 44-40, 32 Special, 30-30, 25-35, 219 Zipper and similar. I've been told that the 7-30 Waters is one of Bob Snapp's favorites and I don't doubt it.

I currently own and shoot Cadets in both std 219 Zipper and 219 Improved but IMO the factory 225 Win is loaded too hot for the diameter of the barrel's thread tenon.

With cartridges of the 223 head size, the action is perfectly safe with loads over 50K psi (factory 223 or 5.56 NATO pressures) and Bob Snapp makes a nifty little rimless extractor intended specifically for the 223. However loads in this pressure range require that the striker nose and block be bushed to a smaller diameter, especially when using Small Rifle primers.

Cartridges using the 30-30 size case head are safe when loaded to ~ the 45K psi range, especially when using the Large Rifle primer.

Cases of the 44 Mag and larger sizes are best left to pressures below 40K psi, certainly no more than factory loads.

A Cadet when chambered for any of the Bee-size cases can, IMO, be loaded so hot that you blow the brass and, unless the sound is different, you'll never know it until you try to extract the empty. The Cadet is perhaps the best gas-handler of them all and would be perfectly safe with any sane load in the Bee-size case.

My friend George the Knifemaker has Cadets in 44-40, 44 Mag, 357 Herret, 30 Herret and 25-35 AI among other smaller ones. He doesn't like his 357 Herret very much 'cause it'll knock his dingaling in the dirt when he shoots it, but he absolutely LOVES his 25-35 AI.
Regards, Joe

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
Tin Can,
I believe the collector value of one with a Johnson would keep me from doing it on your particular barrel. Get another to do the conversion. I have a Martini International built by Karl Kenyon. It is too valuable and shoots too good to convert. Find another one.
Butch

Barrel spalled where it slipped in the vise- bushleaguer attempt, stock was butchered when I bought it, maybe 35 years ago.

What the guy did to my 41 Remington is fodder for another day...

-and, thanks for all above advice/information.

quote:

Originally posted by J.D.Steele:
Bob Snapp makes a nifty little rimless extractor intended specifically for the 223.
Regards, Joe

Joe where can I get a couple of Bob Snapps rimless extractors?? Thanks Kiwi

Robert Snapp
6911 East Washington Road
Clare, MI 48617 USA
tel 989-386-9226

For many years he did some of the best barrel reboring in the country but these days I think he's semi-retired. I believe his extractors WERE very reasonably priced but again I haven't checked in quite some years now. Because of the limited primary extraction leverage of the Cadet, I would be surprised if the shooter of a 223 didn't have to give the lever a noticable 'bump' to get things moving but that's also true with other chamberings as well.
Regards, Joe

Joe,

I have used both the 12's , 15's, and 310 actions since my first Martini in 1961 and Prator was our instructor. He didn't go into rimless extractors at that time. I have made 218 Bee AI, 17 Bee AI, 5.6 X 50 R, 17 Rem., and now a 20 cal similar to the 20 Tac., but slightly shorter. When reloading for these rifles if you are getting close the max. the extractor becomes harder to eject the case. The 20 Special that I have made is shooting quite well at 20.5 grs of Rel 10X.

The extractor on a rimless has to be set just right and it takes time to adjust and hone in order for it to work smoothly. I usually have the case rim pick up the floating extractor about 1/4 inch before it is chambered. Them push into the chamber making sure that it picked up the rim. If it misses and rides over you have to pick the case out with a bent pick to get under the case. I am still playing around with the adjustment on my rifle.





These are too rough, but after I have it working smooth I will make a new extractor insert.

Here is the first type of rimless extract that I made and it is the best design. This one is easy to make and adjust. The center cross pin with keep it tight against the old extractor base.

Many thanks for the pics Les, I haven't had nerve enough to tackle one of those yet!
Regards, Joe

Great information. I have a model 12 in .220 these are getting rather rare. If one has an orphen then yes but a complete shooting RF, to me better to keep it as it is they are not making any more. Most accurate 22 I have had. It will stay this way for another 90+ years.

quote:

Originally posted by butchlambert:
I do have printed instructions on converting a Ruger#1 to rimfire available.
Butch

Hello Butch, I would be interested in a copy of those instructions.......Kiwi

Pm your address and it will be on the way.
Butch

i do have a martini 222 with bod snapps extractor, Sure was a sob to fit. having never done one before i took me all day to figure it out. once in it works just fine

Thanks for getting this started, J.D.

Our machinist--Yavapai trained, but takes exception to gunsmith--has done a couple of these recently, .223 and .222.

Hopefully, we'll be able to post a little on his technique.

What's certain is that should any AR members be looking for BSA Martini actions, they can find them at MT Guns.

mtguns at earthlink.net

or PM me.

Best,

flaco

the action in the pictures just happened to find its way to my place. i can assure all that it is even better than the pictures show. now with the addition of a piece of turkish walnut thats on its way from luxus, alot of ambition (of which i have little left) and a trip up to knock on jim kobes door, a 219 donaldson wasp is going to appear

Butch, about 10 years ago I built a Wasp on a similar Martini using a Lothar Walther barrel, built it for my old friend Ben Shelor The Infamous Engraver. Ben was a fan of the small varmint-type cartridges & actions, owned a couple dozen of 'em, and almost every day he would, as he called it, go 'on patrol' around the rural ponds in his area, looking for turtles, chucks and other targets of opportunity.

He said that little Cadet Wasp was the most accurate, and the easiest to load for, of all his rifles.

I envy you that action, wish I coulda kept it! How about giving us some pics as Jim does the barreling and you advance with the stocking?
Regards, Joe

I have two of the odd ball type of Cadet that take down like the big boys. One I made into a 17 Ack Hornet and waht a pleasure it is to play with. Accurate almsot beyond belief and the pressure is handled great too. The other? I was going to make into a 25-20 Win. but got a really neat old Low Wall for a steal and, quite frankly, love that old beast. Heavier than I would have preferred but just plain FUN! I was thinking baout perhaps a build using the 222R Aussie brass as a platform but am getting too old. I still have to get the beautiful Sako Riihimaki I got from Butch done. Perhaps it is time to sell the little Martini!
Aloha, Mark

Looking at that picture in Tincans is enough to make me sick!! Have you EVER seen anything[one] so STUPID looking! Makes Alfred E. Neumann [What? Me Worry?] look like a rocket scientist!
Aloha, Mark