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I don't much about AR platforms any advantages to the DPMS platform versus the other platform? Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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Mike What calibre are you looking at and what is it for? ie hunting or personal protection/defense or long range shooting of some sort??? DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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308 is the cal. Mostly hunting but will probably keep it to 20 inches so it handy for defense Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Get yourself something that can withstand accidents and abuse. Get yourself an M1A. _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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I already have one of those Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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My favorite of all the 308 AR's I have shot is the JP. Its forend is the same size as the 223, which makes it feel and handle very well. It is also one of the most accurate 308 semiautos I have ever fired, as accurate as most Good bolt rifles, it was very impressive. And I have shot a LOT of 308's over the years. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I have an SR-25 I'd sell, but it has a 24" barrel. John Farner If you haven't, please join the NRA! | |||
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Maybe I should have been clearer. I plan on building a 308 on an AR. IN CA, the easiest way to do that is to start with a CA legal lower. When I went to order one at the shop, they asked do you want the DPMS format or the "XYZ" (I don't remember what they said the other format was) When I asked what were the pros and cons...I didn't get a good answer. I know DPMS is a brand but when I asked..."Do you mean the make, they said "no, the make is CMGG (or somrthing like that) what format do you want?" So what does DPMS format mean? Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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just my wils azz guess but i think they want to know what magazines you may want to use. | |||
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The DPMS LAR10 uses the original configuration Stoner magazine first designed for Stoners AR10. The dimensions are the same but the appearance has changed. Actually the PMAG by Mappul is probably one of the best out there. ArmaLite uses a slightly modified M14 magazine. It originally used the Stoner too but the CEO thought it would be cheaper to go with the M14 magazine. The Rock River Arms uses the FAL magazine. Also RRA's receivers are longer. This all come about when some of ArmaLite's personel left ArmaLite to start RRA. They were told by the CEO of Armalite if one "freaking" part of their rifles copy the ArmaLite that he would sue them. CMMG makes a set of receivers that use the HK G3 magazine and possible not produce the rifle. Westpac you need to watch Daniel Defense's video on the the Torture Test of their M4 Carbine. I'll bet you a good sum of money no M1A would survive it. The M14 and M1A are very good rifles but in no way match the AR10's durability. Doubt they will match it's accuracy either. Another fine shooting and accurate rifle, especially for it's configuration, is the HK belt fed 7.51 NATO, although the belt limits it's hunting use. The FN SCAR is very good too, but expensive. | |||
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Given the different magazine configurations, will the M14/M1A magazines that are modified to fit in the ArmaLite still work properly in an M14/MIA? One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx | |||
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And so is there an advantage to one over the other? Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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In your case I would use the DMPS format so I could use their magazines or the PMAG. If I knew that the CMMG reciever would function 100% with the H&K magazines I would go with that as I have several H&K Mags, and they are still dirt cheap. They are the best enginered 308 magazine IMHO. You can get them in 5 and 10 round versions as well, but they are more expensive than the military surplus 20 rounders. So for you the DMPS is the way I would go... You might see if a JP upper will fit that lower... I would also go with an 18 or 20" barrel. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I watched it, and while it is somewhat impressive, they didn't perform the all too real, full swing sledge hammer to the receiver test. Aluminum is for beer cans! Oooorah!  _______________________________________________________________________________ This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life. | |||
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Mike, There are two styles of AR-10 type rifles, DPMS and Armalite. The rear of the upper and lower receivers are cut at an angle where they meet at the rear on the Armalite and the DPMS are cut with curves. More upper manufacturers make the DPMS style uppers and in an emergency you can use the Armalite upper on a DPMS (with a gap) but you cannot use a DPMS pattern upper on an Armalite lower. Like it was said above, the DPMS uses a much more common style magazine which is available from different manufacturers and are cheaper than the Armalite proprietary magazines. If you Google images of the DPMS lower and Armalite lowers you can see the difference in construction. I shoot a Tactical Machine brand DPMS LR-308 style lower with a bullet button and parts are much easier to find for it than an Armalite. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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To me what was more impressive on that test was the Aimpoint. That device did not give up. All I can say is let me hit your M1A with a sledge hammer and we'll see if it still works okay? | |||
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I'll add that the gas tube length on the ArmaLite AR10 is longer they the other breeds and also the bolt and it's headspacing are different then everyone else. | |||
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DPMS = R25 - different labels .. but the r25 has the forward assist - i thought I would hate the camo pattern, turns out, I don't care. the DPMS uses the Pmag, which is, hands down, the best mag on the market - the r25 has ONLY been available from rem with a 20" barrel .. mind you, it is a wilson barrel, done for DPMS, and mine shoots as good as a bolt gun.. or better. get the DPMS/R25 -- i would say get the r25 -- its only downside is that the barrel is not threaded -- that is a $75 problem... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Let's just say DPMS have their steel magazines. Mapul who makes the PMAG decided so after the DPMS pattern. You make it sound like DPMS comes with PMAG's. Unless they just changed policy they don't. DPMS barrels are like Savage's barrel. When new they shoot exceptionally well. If you shoot them ALOT they wear pretty fast. There are two Wilson barrel companies know of. One of course is the Wilson of the 1911 45 fame. Then there is the other Wilson of which I believe you speak of. These companies today are out to make a profit, not build you the best gun with the best components. They cut corners everywhere they can. ArmaLite was going to switch to Lothar Walther barrels until they heard how much they would costs. | |||
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J - sure, i think I agree with .. i should have said the DPMS can use PMAGs - we are talking 308 rather than 223, I doubt round count will be an issue for barrel wear -- no name brand marquee uses high grade barrels for their production runs - however, mine shoots any decent ammo well -- sure POI moves when you change loads, but if you keep aiming in the same spot, you get a good group... a good barrel starts at what, 400 bucks? 1/4 to 1/3 the total street price of an r25 .. but buying quality has an inherent limitation when ramping up quantity -- sure, i expect a discount if i buy 1000 vs buying 1 -- but when 1000 represents a significant portion of total sales, in order to keep the same profit levels, I would then have to make more -- meaning the quality would likely decrease ... and i think LW AR barrels are muy precio opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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i have to say that i like JP by far the best. that is until i come to the pricetag. given that i bought the remmy r25. except for the trigger, whichc i promptly replaced i like the gun enough to go out and buy a r25 in 243. i think you will find that the mags for the dpms /stoner format will be much more accessible than for others (for calification mags go to 44mag.com) my 308 shoots under 1 minute groups even with my eyes, and the 243 is a real tackdriver | |||
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