I have just started the ball moving for one of Weatherbys Build a Custom Gun. The odds are 90% it will be a 378 and 10% a 30/378 or maybe 80/20.

Their top Claro blank is $1050US and their top French Blank is $2150US.

I don't know much about wood.

Their basic recommendation is that if the rifle is the tradition Wby, shiny finish etc then the top Claro is the go. But if classic style stock and oil or dull finish is chosen then the French Walnut is the go.

From the little bit I have heard of wood Claro is likely to look the best and flashiest but is not suitable for fine checkering and is looked down on. The last part does not worry me.

So if the rifle is to have carving as in an uograded Crown Custom or if checkering at low lines per inch is chosen would the Claro be the best, assuming equally good examples of Claro and French.

The difference in cost between the two is not an issue as it is a relatively small percentage of the total rifle costs.

With barrels as many of you probably know the Kreiger owned Criterian button rifle barreled is standard on Wbys. However, you can take the option of the Kreiger cut rifling barrel. The Kreiger cut rifle option also allows squaring bolt face, receiver, lapping lugs. Do you think think this is worth doing. The main negative that I can see is extending delivery time on the rifle.

Any thoughts, comments, suggestions greatly appreciated.

Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike375: Their top Claro blank is $1050US and their top French Blank is $2150US

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Wonder if they'd let you furnish your own blank?

No they won't.

I also asked about paying more for them to go better but they said their top blanks is what their supplier has. They also stick to the sam supplier and have for years and this apparently covers things such as a blank being no good when the stock maker starts cutting.

I don't have any reason to disbelieve them because I have bought stuff through the custom shop last year (but at a lower level) and everything happened as they said it would happen.

Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike375:


Any thoughts, comments, suggestions greatly appreciated.

Mike

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Mike
Since these upgrades are going on a Weatherby
the point is moot.

"The main negative that I can see is extending delivery time on the rifle."

Better to wait and get what you want rather
than get what you don't want now.

Mike, claro often looks flashy, but it simply isn't as good a stock wood as French walnut. The grain structure, texture, and figure of French is superior in every way, plus it's lighter and stronger as well, and checkers better. French walnut is the best stockwood in the world, pure and simple.

Claro also tends to fade over time from sun exposure, and it really needs that heavy, glossy Weatherby stock finish in order to best preserve it's appearance. You get what you pay for in most everything, wood is no exception, and I would absolutely choose French walnut for your project.

I would also choose Kreiger's cut-rifled barrel over the button-rifled version. I believe that cut-rifled barrels last longer and are not as load-specific, and shoot with superb accuracy. I also suspect that the cut barrels cost more. All of my Echols custom rifles wear cut Kreiger barrels, and they all shoot like gangbusters.

AD

Allen
I thought Turkish was the "best" stockwood?

Jeff

One of our top stock makers in Australia reckons Australian grown is the best if the rifle is a conservative style rifle and Californian for a Weatherby syle rifle.

But I have had heard it said many times that French is the best.

Mike

MIke,
there are only two kinds of walnut..hard shell and thin shell....Hard shell is Claro and Black, thin shell is English, European, Turkish, Russian, French, or california English the quality of thin shell is according to the conditions under which it is grown... Turkish, Russian, French is all grown under extremely harsh conditions, thus it is the best wood...Most Claro and black is grown on a ditchbank in California and has the consistency of cork, with a few exceptions IMO....

The pricing your were quoted on Claro is bloody exhorbant and I suspect the other is also...I can put you in touch with some people in the states that will send you a absolutly beatiful blank of exhibition quality for $500 to $800..Wood is only worth what the buyer will pay and I have seen certain smiths buy a $395 blank and sell them at shows with a gun order for $2000, and thats criminal IMO...

Allen,

Well the cut rifle Krieger is quite a lot more expensive with Wby but there is a lot of "factory custom" rifle bullshit in the difference. Ona rifle like this where the price is around the $10000US mark the Krieger cut rifle only adds about 500US. But if you upgraded one of the cheaper rifles it can cost as muh as the rifle I think cross subsidising and disincentives etc are at work.

In terms of the Claro and one of their upgraded Crown Customs where it is carving and so shiny you need sunglasses, would the Claro be the better choice since it would have the heavy Wby coating, especially given flashy appearance is the key.

For reasons which I won't bore you with I am split between the "pimp" Crown Custom upgraded and the Safari style upgraded. On the latter I would take the French Walnut and that is what they suggest.

Mike

Ray,

I think in general it is accepted that "factory customs" are more expensive that an equivalent quality gunsmith made rifle.

But in my case I am simply more attracted to the factory custom and I already know the wood will be over priced but there is nothing I can do about it.

However, I figure that both the Claro and French will be equally over priced at Wby.

But I might be lucky because I think I must be a real peasant when it comes to wood. A mate of mine is in the process of buying a blank and I have sat next to him looking at Dressels and 40 million other places he has turned up and I end up picking the $300 bits of wood as the best.

Mike

a 1000$ claro would me AMAZING... far "prettier" than a 1000$ english/french.. french is sexy, in and of itself.

Mike, you are in OZ, though, and have amazing english right there.. stick with that.

cut vs button... it's a couple hundred more to say youve got cut... imho

jeffe

Jeffe

Weatherby will not allow you to supply the blanks.

Not sure I understand you here

cut vs button... it's a couple hundred more to say youve got cut... imho

Do mean that the cut is no better, just sounds better to say you have it?

Mike

Pay the extra for the Krieger cut rifled. Not the time to skimp on a barrel. On the walnut I'm with you! I like the lower grades better than the Exibition blanks in the english walnut. Just some nice strips and good grain flow in a english/french/whatever blank is what I prefer. English in a Weatherby style stock might look very cool. Would kinda make your rifle unique. As far as the Claro being "soft" usually thats graded out on a high priced blank. I've got some glaro stocks that are very dense and take fine checkering well as any. Each tree is a individual. So I vote french/cut in my rifles just like I like french cut in other things hehehhe FNMauser

quote:

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Originally posted by fnmauser:
Pay the extra for the Krieger cut rifled. Not the time to skimp on a barrel. On the walnut I'm with you! I like the lower grades better than the Exibition blanks in the english walnut. Just some nice strips and good grain flow in a english/french/whatever blank is what I prefer. English in a Weatherby style stock might look very cool. Would kinda make your rifle unique. As far as the Claro being "soft" usually thats graded out on a high priced blank. I've got some glaro stocks that are very dense and take fine checkering well as any. Each tree is a individual. So I vote french/cut in my rifles just like I like french cut in other things hehehhe FNMauser

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Correct. A LOW GRADE Claro stock may be "soft" but a good piece of Claro will checker as good as pretty near anything else.

If WB is charging $1000 for a stock, they would have good quality wood. I can't see WB doing a "hack" job. The Claro will look like a "traditional" WB, the French will look Euro. Pick what you want it to look like. I agree, the French would look cool AND different.

Mike,

FWIW, I vote for a cut-rifled barrel. Particularly if it includes squaring the bolt face and true-ing the locking lugs. On a $10,000 rifle, you want it as accurate and forgiving of different loads as it can be.

Claro usually gives more figure at a similar price point. As others have said, the difference is in how tight-grained/hard the wood is from growing in tough vs easy conditions. For a stock on an easy-kicking caliber, I'd be willing to trade the toughness of the English/French/Turkish walnut for the figure of Claro. Sounds like wood figure isn't a key issue for you, though. The Winchester Custom shop offers Claro on the Custom Safari Express and English on the African Express if I remember right, which is why the lower end guns sometimes have better looking wood. Like the previous poster, I'd assume most of the wood used is pretty good and inletted correctly. The chance of your having a problem is probably pretty slim.

Steve

I wouldnt spend $1000 on a stick of Claro period. The "french" walnut would have to pass inspection before I ponied up $2000 for it. It better be drop dead gorgeous and have perfect layout. JMHO.

Mike, aren't you the one that just got two Weatherby's in 378? Why a third? (just out of curiosity, to each his own).

I looked at their website, for the price of the entry level Crown custom you could get an Echols Legend, which I got to see a week ago first hand and they are fantastic. You probably would save a bit actually, and you have upgraded to a Winchester action and a rifle custom built FOR YOU.

THEN. The exhorbitant (spell?) fee that they want for those blanks and stock work, call up a builder with great wood and tell him that you want the 1500 dollar blank he has that is so pretty it makes you want to cry, pay 350 to have him duplicate the already fantastic McMillan stock on the Legend for you and get them all shipped down under. (350 to do it on a Hoenig, maybe get it as cheap as 200). do final inletting and finishing yourself.

Red

I'm with Bill Soverns, a grand for Claro is on the steep side and I'm not sure I would know what a 2k blank looked like in French or anything else for the most part, thats a lot of money for a blank.

Red

A couple of problems.

D'Arcy is not into making rifles and getting them to Australia.

He will only use the Hartman and Weiss action for the big big Weatherbys. So the leade time would be real long because you have to get the H&W to America for starters.

And D'Arcy's lack of interest in getting rifles to Australia is only matched by my lack of interest in trying to bring a rifle into Australia. The guns/ammo import agent that does Wby for Australia is the biggest one in Australia and they would be one of Wbys biggest sngle outlets in the world because they cover not only all of Australia but all the surrounding areas like New Zealand and other places in the Pacific region. The whole exercise is smooth sailing.

Actually it would save me quite a bit to have the Wbys sold to an American gunshop or dealer and then bring them in myself. What happens with Wby is that as soon as you move away fron a catologued rifle the deal between Wby and the import agent changes. Probably the same happens in America with dealers. You only have to option up an Accumark to all steel bottom metal and Snow camo stock and the financial deal changes in relation to Wbys recommended retail.

As to two 378s it will probaby finish at 4 of them!!! For different reasons. Actually the bloke that runs the custom shop at Wby was only telling me yesteday it is quite common with Wby customs for someone to run across a range of rifles all in one calibre. On the other hand, some people pick one type of rifle and stick with that but run through the full range of Weatherby calibres.

Also, for whatever reason I have a stronger attraction to factory type wood custom guns than gunsmith built guns. Accuracy guns, a different deal altogether.

It is quite easy to run up the same bill with Wby as one of D'Arcy's wood rifles and I do not have the slightest doubt that D'Arcy's rifle is superior, probably far superior but it does not attract me as much as the Wby.

Mike

Billy,

Take a look a around this site of Dressels

http://www.dressels.com/

I suppose H&H and Purdey would have some odd expensive blanks from a Walnut tree that grew in the royal grounds

Mike

quote:

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Originally posted by Dago Red:
for the price of the entry level Crown custom you could get an Echols Legend,
Red

---

Will Echols build a Legend in .378 or X-378 Mag? My understanding is the Legends are all H&H based magnums.

I have/had three Weatherby products with the Criterion. All shot well with the .300 AccuMark shooting extreamly well. I would expect the cut rifling Kreiger to shoot even better.

I like the Crown Customs look with a very dark wood stock so I would be inclined to go French in this case. See if WBY will email you pics of the two sticks you have to choose from. Just for giggles I would see if a Kangaroo could be engraved on the floorplate instead of the regular elk, ram, etc.

sSmith.45

Funny you should mention that because it had also crossed my mind. A mate of mine reckons it should be a frilled lizard.

There is bloke out here who sometimess takes his old Crown Custom to the range and it is one those Birdseye maple jobs like in the old Wby guides.

I bought an odd one the other day that has never been fired, never even a scope on it.
They made 130 of them in 1993, the Safari Custom Classic. They are 375 H&H, classic oil finished stock, quarter rib, barrel band sling swivel and barrel band front sight and of course being made in 1993 is a Made in Japan.

Mike

Mike 375

quote:

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Their top Claro blank is $1050US and their top French Blank is $2150US.

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you just reminded me of why I started building my own! This Bastogne blank cost me $150!

I paid $175 for this Bastogne blank 5 years ago from Rimrock. Hard and dense as a rock:

Be still, my heart!

Mike375,

I've looked at Dressels blanks, even bougth one or two from them.

Not sure I still know what a 2k blank really is.

I'll stick with buying them wholesale.

Vapo, that is a sweet stock! I have been trying to figure out how to go about making my own stocks, are there any books you might reccomend to a rank beginner?

Mike 375, maybe I'm crazy but other than an inate desire to have it be a Weatherby, I think you could hire plenty of gunsmiths to build your project with extraordinary wood without the Weatherby abusive pricing, and functionality/performance that would at least match a Weatherby. I don't know a thing about getting a rifle to Australia, but I'm sure many here could reccomend a smith or shipping agent who could handle that part of the puzzle, maybe I'm just too clueless, but my Dad was in Australia about 6 years ago and getting a rifle to him was not a big deal at all, maybe things have changed.....

Krieger barrels are great, I've got a couple in cut and in buttoned, I can't see much difference on the target face, the buttoned didn't take as much to 'shoot in' i.e. get to the point where cleanup was pretty simple and grouping was consistently tight. Having said that all these rigs had been blueprinted in addition to being rebarreled. If you really must have the Weatherby, I would buy a rifle with a plastic stock and have it restocked, for a lot less than $2000

Good Luck--Don

Hello Mike 375
Well, the truth of the matter is after the client has completed his hunt/safari,epedition, etc. and returned home, the professionals are reviewing the experience, the talk usually turns to the fancy stock/wood on the client's rifle. Nothing really nasty is ever said, but the comment on how "impractical...., etc." is often heard and pondered as to why people use such fancy wood on a hunting rifle or "working rifle?" Pride of ownership is about the only way to justify it. To each his own. Remember, pretty is as pretty does and form follws function. In short, if the rifle is superbly accurate, the hunter is a highly skilled marksman, and the game taken cleanly, then the rifle will be remembered even if it has a quality McMillan sythetic stock properly bedded, fitted, etc. (As a suggestion only, check out Master Class Stocks in Bellwood, Pa www.Masterclass.com.) Otherwise, just another day "at the office..." for the professionals.
Now for the Krieger cut rifled barrels vs. the button type, I have used many of both over the years and had good and bad in both. Cut rifing is just that, cut or metal is removed by a cutter,tool. Reported to produce a smoother more uniform rifled bore?? Button rifled is done by deforming metal or reforming if you will by forcing a "button" through a drilled bore and forming the lands and grooves. Supposedly "double button" versions give a highly smooth almost polished bore?? In a sporting/hunting rifle I really see no advantage to the cut type for a sporting rifle in reality sees very little actual shots down the tube compared to a match rifle. For a match/precision type, the cut I believe offers advantages of somewhat longer life, but not sure if there is a whit of difference in accuracy. Both types of rifling have delivered world record scores at the 1000 yard mark and done so over many thousands of rounds. Based on the caliber you are talking about, it is a sure bet that hours spent on the range shooting hundreds of rounds will not occur, so barrel life is probably not going to be an issue with you. Of course delving into all the possibilities makes the task of rifle selection all that much more enjoyable and certainly hope you realize the perfect hunting rifle for your purposes.
Favor Center!!

dsiteman

Fish30114

Bringing the rifle in is a problem I don't need. Actually, the first part of the problem is getting it out of America.

I have already been through the route of from Wby custom shop to their agent in Australia and onto the gun shop and sailing is very smooth and very relaxing.

You are quite correct that I could have guns made in Australia and for less than the cost of Wby stuff. But the 378 case causes some problems.

I don't want a CZ. I don't want a Dakota so we are into either Granite or converting, redoing or doing up a Weatherby and those options do not interest me. My lack of interest in those options is not based on some feeling that they are inferior, just a case I what I want and how I want to go about it.

Mike

dsiteman

I will probably get the Kreiger option unless it causes a leade time that is far too long.

I guess it is like ordering the all steel bottom metal on Weatherbys, no practical gain but just nicer to have steel.

In my own opinion, once you leave the Ruger Stainless in 30/06 or similar a different set of rules apply or perhaps a different interest is at play.

Mike

Gringo Cazador

In the case of Weatherby a $2000 blank is what they give you because you can't supply your own blank.

One would assume that at any given time their $2000 blank is better than their $1500, which is better than their $1000 blank and so on.

But whether their $2000 blank is inferior to the $150 blank you buy is not relevant because you have to use their blanks.

The facts are that whether the rifle is a Weatherby, a Winchester or an Echols or Miller or H&H and Purdey each individual component of each of those rifles will be inferior to something else. But it is the overall package that is important to some buyers and part of that package even includes the passage from start to finish of rifle.

I already know that I can have made in Australia all the 378 based Wby calibres done on CZs, pick blanks etc and each rifle would cost not much more than a Wby Deluxe with a couple of options.

In fact a Wby 378 Deluxe with no more than all steel bottom metal option and them selecting a stock that at least looks like wood, costs about the same as buying a second hand CZ and doing it as a 378 with a real nice blank and excellent stock work. At least that is the situation in Australia.

Mike

The important thing is that you get exactly what you want. There are people that will question your decision no matter what you get if it isn't what they would have chosen. Sounds like you've given this a lot of thought and know what you want. I like your decision on the "premium" barrel. A rifle that is going to cost as much as you are about to spend should have the best of everything, Even if the "best" is just perceived to be that.

Personally, I'd go with the French over the carlo, but that's just me. Seeing that Weatherby is kind of a flashy firearm to begin with, the carlo could easily be justified.

Please post some pics when you get it!

Terry

Mike,
I hope they kiss you after you pay $1050 for a piece of claro. Are you sure this is not for a chord?

Seriously, even suspecting that you will get hosed at the $2,000 mark, the English is a lot better wood for a heavy rifle. I would also suspect that the wood will look more like the $600 to $800 wood at Dressels. Bear in mind that English, French, Circassian, Australian, NZ, Turkish etc is all the same species of wood, just named for the area it came from. Request high resolution photos of the wood, including close ups of the wrist area for inspection prior to selection.

Good luck to you, it does appear that the other options available to you have been weighed thoughtfully and this is the best path.

Chic,

I have no doubt that the blanks are at the very least doubled priced.

As to strength, I have never had any problems with the Claro. I have previously owned two of the light barreled Made in Japan 378s plus direct involvement with two others and we shot the shit out of them because we had the bag of lead shot behind them.

Their own recommendation is the Claro for the rifle that is the traditional Wby syle stock and all shiny and doubly so for an upgraded Crown Custom and they recommend the French for the classic syle stocks they do or for the Safari style rifle when it is upgraded.

I am sure the thread we had a while ago on Dakotas could be applied eqally to Wby.

The main thing is you know these things before you go in. There is a bloke out here at the moment who is trying to sell a Wby he had restocked, match grade barrel etc. but his problem is that "it is not a Wby" and his offers are reflecting that situation. He is moaning and groaning but his problem is he did not know the situation before he went in.

Mike

Mike,
I am sure you are right regarding Claro with the 378. Also I would imagine that any well laid out stock with proper grain flow would be more than adequate. My comment about the English beginng superior probably inolves just a larger factor of safety. Probably also shows a big bias on my part for English walnut. It is a harder wood and cuts better but it ultimately is the customers choice.

I do agree if you want a dramatic looking stock and grain flow that will knock your socks off, Claro will do it. I would add that I have had some very wild looking ones and they did not lose the colors over time.

Chic,

One of our top stock makers out here told me one day about checkering and Claro.

Interesting bloke. He is a member of the Ausralian Big game Club where ownership of a Wby or Browning A Bolt basically means expulsion from the club and these blokes talk about regulated velocities etc. and etc. Ray and Alf would love the place. 404s, 9.3 X 62s, Mausers and piles of that English junk rescued from the swamps of India

But he is keen to do do two stocking jobs that he has not done. One is a Weatherby look alike on a Wby action and the other is a stainless barreled action in wood and in particular a Wby.

These blokes go weak at the knees when they see what you fellows get for making a stock.

Actually, the custom built rifle, especially the big stuff like 404 or 500 Jeffery is about the only area of guns where it is much cheaper here than in the US....and of course buying Woodleigh bullets.

Mike

Mike, This is a Claro Stock that I checkered in 22 LPI....



22 LPI is probably the limit on Claro whereas with french you can go finer in the right stock. I'm still a begginer and haven't done too much with Juglans Regia (English/French/Turkish etc.), the the couple I have checkered did cut a lot nicer.
With Claro you tend to get flashier wood for the money but it is softer and more pourus. But you can get pretty wood for less money. The stock I showed I think came from one of the suppliers to Weatherby. It was advertised as a Weatherby Second for $115. The first stock they sent me was broken in half and this is the replacement they sent.....



I've probably shown this same pic too many times but I thought you might be interested since it might be some of the same Claro that Weatherby was getting.
It still seems that both prices are highway robbery for wood. I like Claro since I'm a beginner and like inexpensive wood in case I really screw something up. But if you are building an all out custom gun and can afford it I think you should go with the French Walnut in the Weatherby if for no other reason than it would be rarer than a Weatherby in Claro and might retain its value better........DJ

DJ

Beginner or not that looks pretty good to me.

With the their Claro they start at 350 then about 700 and 1070 is Special Select. Their French is the same descriptions and start at 1000 and finish at 2150 and again they call it Special Select.

Your comment about resale is interesting. I don't know what they use now but French was used on the 460s for quite some time and before that Mesquite and Buginga spell?)

That piece of Claro you have there would look pretty flash on a Weatherby.

I have already decided to take French if it is one of their non shiny rifles and that is there recommendation.

Basically there are 3 things you can do. You can take say their Safari or Crown Custom and upgrade the wood and have have it made to a higher degree of inletting, checkering etc or you can do a Deluxe the same way or a stock shape they have that is not unlike what you have illustrated. When all else is equal the Crown Custom is the dearest because it picks up the engraving and carving and inlays.

Your rifle is very nice.

Mike

Mike,

Since a fine wood stock is art that pleases your taste you must see it to approve of it.

Thus you must select the stock from the others. Somehow you have to find out how to do this.

When things are urgent I always call the president of the company. It's amazing how powerful this is. They are usually great people to deal with.

In this case I would not start there yet. First do some detective work and find out where the stocks are and go from there.

On a high grade big game custom rifle where you want the best of everything and prestige and bragging rights are factors, there is no doubt that you have to go with a Krieger cut rifled barrel over any button or hammered barrel. For a plastic stocked stainless barrel extreme long range or varmint rifle the choice might be different.

Would also point out that the interest in superfancy wood on hunting rifles is a fairly recent phenomenon. Best Quality British double rifles before WWII frequently had fairly plain stocks. Fancy grain was risky with big recoil. Now, since you are paying Holland $125g for a double .465 the cost of the wood doesn't matter and most of the rifles are never fired anyway so whether the stock busts doesn't matter.