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I've got a Win M670 .30-06 that I've been keeping in the safe to build something on. Last week I picked up a used McMillan fwt stock. It is currently inletted for the two piece Winchester bottom metal. Since I don't have any it looks like I'm buying some. I've been looking at the Williams and PT&G one piece bottom metal as they are both the most affordable I can find. When I complete this build I plan on getting the whole rifle finished in KG Gunkote or similar finish. I want my rifle to finish about 8 lbs or less hunting weight. So is there any reason I should use a CM bottom metal over the Alunimum from PT&G? Is there any problems I'm going to possilby run into converting it to a one piece bottom metal? Here is the stock McMillan standard fill FWT stock:      It is already opened up to the Winchester sporter contour. I'm planning on having Pac-Nor install a 22" .338-06 barrel, sporter contour. Plus toping it off with a Leupold 2.5-8X36 in Talley's to keep the weight down. | ||
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Chad I'm not a Winchester guy (don't know much about them) but if you are trying to save weight and would be coating anyway I would go with aluminum. I used an aluminum floorplate this past winter on my faux BDL just to save the grams. I am going to do a DIY Duracoat on all the metal components in just a couple weeks or so. That's a very cool looking stock. ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Thanks Ted, wasn't sure I wanted to buy the stock. Got to looking at the price of some other cheaper stocks and this one wasn't much more than what the other stocks were new. Plus now I can see what the big deal is about Mickey stocks. I'm leaning towards the PT&G bottom metal since it should be the lightest. I don't think I'll have this up and running by the time you get out here to hunt. At least not in the chambering I want, if I leave it an .30-06 I could probably be ready to hunt this fall with it. | |||
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If you really want to save weight....why not glass in the bottom and make it a blind magazine. You are going to Duracoat so you can sand smooth to your hearts content and then Duracoat over it. I have never understood the fascination with bottom metal. I have never been in a hurry to unload my gun. My custom Mauser will have a blind magazine Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I don't really care if I have bottom metal or not. The used stock I bought is inletted for bottom metal and I figure that the botom metal is cheaper than paying someone to modify the stock. My original plan was to build a blind mag but getting this stock changed my plans. | |||
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Bottom metal is one of those things that has it's purpose but can be overstated. Bottom metal does add rigidity and stability to the Mauser action but not as much as you would think. as for the floor plate being able to open with relative ease that's a style thing. Bottom metal to me is nothing more then a well built attachment to an already well designed action. If style and taste had nothing to do with firearms design everyone would own a Rem 700 BDL with a plastic stock and Weaver mounts. Firearms are just like cars. you have economy models, you have high end models, then there are one of a kind works of art that only the filthy rich can afford. with a good mix of everything in between including some absolute abominations in design and taste. That Winchester lever action with the funky sights comes to mind. Rifles like cars are a reflection of the owner. They should be an expression of craftsmanship and artistic design not a advertisement for to fat a wallet. Either way to each his own. www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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The PT&G one piece is 2.7 ounces. Glassing over and still having a triggerguard and front escutcheon/bushing will be what? 2 ounces? You will probably also lose a round of magazine capacity which may or may not matter to you. The first time you go for a real spill with your rifle and fill the action area with dirt, mud, and pine needles, or hunt in freezing rain that gets into the magazine area and freezes, or go for a dunking, you will realize why the Mausers and Springfield and other rifles had a removeable floorplate, and it wasn't so the rifle could be unloaded quickly or for style and artistic purposes. | |||
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I meant taking it out of the practical or military context. You bet Paul Mauser designed it for a reason. But the hand sculpted levers were never a military design nor were in the trigger guard levers www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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That is great information there! That will make the stock weigh right at 35+ oz. Plus at $90 for the bottom metal I'm sure that will come in less than having someone glass it in and repait or dip the stock. I don't really care about losing a round of capacity. If I can't hit it with the first two then I doubt I'll get shots 3-5 off. Looks like the PT&G will be the route I go. | |||
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What I don't get is people wanting a five pound rifle. i've been lugging around at least an eight pound beast all my life. I've never complained. I jack rabbit hunt with and M1 Garand too. www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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I don't want a five pound rifle, but having a light stock will give me more options on barrels. Like I said in my first post I'd like this rifle to finsih about 8 lbs with a full magazine, scope and sling attached. The main purpose of this rifle will be to hunt elk plus I'm going with a .338-06 chamber so I don't think I'll like a five pound rifle. | |||
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No it wasn't your post I was commenting on. it was Mikes. I like to poke fun at mike every now and then www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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That is not going to happen with that stock and barrel contour. | |||
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I know, best I'm able to figure will be closer to 9+ lbs. I'm just trying to figure out how to get the weight down. I'm figuring the action at 2.5 lbs, barrel at 3 lbs, stock at 2.25 so right there I'm nearly at 8 lbs sans anything else I want to add. I'm still trying to figure out how to get there. I figure the barrel is where I'm going to have to loose most of weight. After I talk it over with my GS I may even have to pick a different chamber if I can't make it work with the .338. | |||
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The stock and barrel are where you are going to have to shave weight. Pretty tough to do what you want with a 33oz stock. | |||
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Is 33oz really considered and FWT stock? I have a M670 carbine in 30-06. I'm going to weigh the components tonight. barreled action with william bottom metal and with the alum blind box triggerguard. ramline stock. birch factory stock. (blind box) Walnut M70 fwt factory stock (new from cdnn). | |||
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32 oz is only 2 lbs, even if it was the edge fill I'd only save around 7-10 oz of weight. Seems right around 22 oz is the average for the Edge fill. The stock is a 14" lop so I'll probably cut it down to 13.5" but I don't expect that to shave more than a couple of ounces off if that. I'd be happy to learn what you find out weighing your rifle. Wouldn't you know when it rains it pours! Just found an Edge stock that weighs 22 oz. Trying to work out a deal on that one now as well. Might have to use this stock on a different project. | |||
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7-10oz's is ALOT! | |||
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Here is a bottom metal option From D'Arcy Echols made of 7075 Aluminum.     | |||
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Nice, but my budget doesn't include D'Arcy's products. The PT&G is 1/6 the cost of that bottom metal from what I've been able to find out about it. | |||
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The M670 18" 30-06 with blind box birch stock weighs 7#2.2oz The m70 FWT stock weight 2#2oz. The M70 2 piece steel bottom metal is 6oz. The ramline M70 stock is 2#7.4oz but a butler creek M98 stock is 1#14.2 I'll get teh bbl action weight later The barreled action is 4#11.6oz the alum trigger guard is 1.2oz rich | |||
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The average height of a civil war soldier 5-8 1/4" and average weight was 143 pounds..they carried a 9 1/2- 10 lb rifle....I don't get it! | |||
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Do you hunt Duane? I'm just curious as to what your hunting rifle weighs. | |||
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They didnt do it for fun----- SSR | |||
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Been there, I spent four years being in the Airborne Infantry with the 3-325 and 3-505. I was a SAW gunner for most of that so I know what it is like to carry around a weapon over 10 lbs with a 70 lb ruck on my back and move for 20K and then assualt an objective. I was 169 lbs back then and 5'10". Simply put I now have the choice not to carry 10 lb rifle anymore, it isn't that I can't. | |||
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Do you hunt Duane? I'm just curious as to what your hunting rifle weighs.[/QUOTE Fair question: Since 1986 I've used one 270 (replaced the barrel about 7 yrs ago) Just a whisker over 8 lbs. It weighed 7 lbs 9 oz before the new barrel but found the rifle a little "whippy"... I went with an extra inch and a slightly heavier contour ...it's a "rock" now. 338 WM come in at 9 1/4 lbs...two trips to Africa with this rifle...last trip four shots, four critters (witnessed) One PH made the comment: Too little for a big gun...too big for a little gun.??? My 500 Jeff..the first one was 9 3/4 lbs..."woof"..shit..that hurt! Second one was 10 1/4lbs,,much better! My 9.3 x 64 comes in at just a whisker over 9 lbs...very solid gun to shoot...To answer your question,, "Do I hunt"?...Bet your sweet ass I do! I'm 74 years old, 5-10 210 lbs Ahhh...You guessed it..I have no use for the super lights..don't mean You can't be happy with one..just not my personal choice | |||
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I'm not trying to go super light, I'll be very happy if I wind up between 8 and 9 lbs with a .338-06. Which fits right between your .270 and .338 WM in weight and power. Since I went ahead and bought the Edge stock that will allow me to use a stiffer barrel and still come in in the weight range I want. I've ran the math and was figuring 8.4 lbs with a #1 Pac-Nor barrel. Now I can run a #3 and still be around the same weight. I'll probably still come in closer to 9 lbs "all up". | |||
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Isn't that kinda what the original poster is after? That 270 needs to be seen.  Sounds about perfect. | |||
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Hell...I'm not trying to make a case for "Mother of God" heavy rifles...just trying to get focused on Pracitcality and not get wrapped up on foolish featherweight mentality. | |||
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I'd enjoy a little write up on it. | |||
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 www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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This is where rifle weight can matter. Although he is packing a 9lb rifle.  | |||
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Chuck, I am assuming you "created" that picture to illustrate your point. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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"Created"? That is my hunting pard. I am holding the camera and have a set of bighorn ram horns on my pack as well. We are literally 2 DAYS from the nearest lightbulb. Literally. We just spent the night sitting on those rocks you see trying to stay the heck alive while we get rained and snowed on on the 26th of August. There is no creation there, and here is the same guy and my brother less than 4 hours later and another hour later after getting kicked in the head by one of our horses. "Created"? Really?   | |||
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I hope he kicked him back.... MKane160 MK160 | |||
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Growing up on the ranch I've been kicked, bit, and stomped by hosrse. Luckily I've never taken a hoof to the head. I like horses for hunting when everything goes well, but the one time I hunted with them at elk camp I was glad I brought my own. I've seen a lot of wrecks waiting to happen, and some out right animal abuse by the riders. | |||
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Chuck, The reason for my comment is that picture has "ghost images" and no discernible shadows. Lighting on the person is very different than on the background with no shadows. Also you did not say "here I am hiking..." Your text was more explaining an example Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Townsend Whelen, one of the greatest of the old-time true wilderness hunters, agreed with Duane that a little extra weight helped the actual shooting enough so that he preferred to carry the extra pound. Of course, he trained hard and was certainly no 'occasional' hunter..... Regares, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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It is all relative to your physical strength, conditioning, hunting environment and rifle chambering. That moderately steep country shown in Chuck's photos is not hard to pack a decent rifle in, especially when using a good backpack of the type now available to hunters, but, try a 10 lb. rifle in BC RM Goat hunting in the West Kootenays or the Coast Range and it is a bit different. Chuck, is that up in "The Willmore", and, I gotta say, WHY would your bud choose a RED pack for hunting sheep? You guys are typical of real mountain hunters, kicked in the noggin by a gawdam hayburner, bleed a bit, bandage it up and keep on going....nuts!  Duane, tell us more about your 9,3x64, that is one FINE round for BC and one I would love to have. I also gotta say that you are an amazing guy to build these fabulous rifles that you do at 74 and still hunt as well, good on ya! | |||
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