I have a Savage 7mm-08 that when bought went back to the factory for a new barrel because of bad barrel and it was a tack driver when it got back. Sight in was just two shots in a 1.5 long hole off the bench for several years.

The next trip it was shooting 4-6 high and 4-5 inches wide and the gun was not dropped or run over. Cleaned it and checked the bedding and got the same problem.

I took the Nikon scope that came with the rifle and sent it to the factory for warranty repair. Factory said No problem but I did find the front screw in the base was less than half a turn from tight.

Bought a new Leopold 3x9x40 and rings and bases. Leopold VX-Freedom 3-9x40 scope.

Shot the rifle and better but no two in the same hole or 1 inch group for that matter. I went back and checked all the screws and retightened all to the little star wrench that came with the scope using the long side and it shot worse about a 2 inch group. (too tight in the screws?)

I am not sure what the problem may be. Cannot believe I got two bad scopes back to back.

I am not sure what to look at for the problem. From a tack driver to a piece of S. Bases and rings were tightened with lock tight and all are tight and I even took the scope off to check all screws.


What am I looking for? Scopes? Me? ( all the other rifles shoot less than 1" group) did the barrel go out? Probably not more than 200 to 300 rounds at most. Shoot the Hornaday Deer hunter 139 gr rounds. Matter of fact this Deer Hunter shoots under an inch group in 5 different rifles. The BC is not great but to 350 yards I get a better hotter load than I can load plus cheap. I shoot mostly hogs on a friend's ranches.

HELP


Jim

Clean it good. Get rid of carbon fouling. Get rid of copper fouling.

have you removed it from the stock and then use a torque wrench to set it back? i would expect it's bound or touching the stock...

you know the dollar bill test? fold a dollar around the barrel (a u shape) with the bottom sliding it between the stock and barrel - you'll likely find a could touching points.. pull the barrel to the opposite side and continue to slide up ... i start here, every time, to ensure that there's not an interference issue to clear

Is it one with the Tupperware (TM) stock? If so, get a boyds laminated stock, as stated, clean out copper, make sure the scope is tight, and it will shoot. That is what I would do anyway.

And check that none of the screws in the ring mount bases are too long. Have had one that felt tight because it was bottomed out, but it was too long and the base would get a little movement a couple of shots in. Other screw was tight, so it just opened up groups a couple of inches.

I did the bore cleaning with both. I checked the bedding. I had bedded the savage though I would never do it again. I did a lot of work on the plastic stock. I placed some all thread in the barrel channel and also placed a rod all thread thru the stock and reinforced this area and bedded with the commercial devcon liquid steel. Stock has been known to break in that area. It was all bedded the checked and set to torque with a solid stop. The bedding of the stock made the gun go from 3 shot groups 3/4 into one hole gun.

I hunt hogs on the friend's place and with this gun I liked to try with a rest to usually shoot the hogs in the head unless it was late or the big boars were where I could not get them off the road or feeder. (I also will shoot them any where or any time I see one walking or running.)

Since the rifle had a bad barrel and the factory put a new barrel on could the barrel have gone bad? Hard to believe a gun that the scope had not been messed with went to 5-6 inches high and 5 inches wide spread.

I could see a rifle a little off and 1/2 a turn might make some problems I do not see this much. Also the new scope should be solid. - unless I over tightend with the star allen wrench that came with the kit.

Other suggestions or Ideas on the problem.
Thanks,

Jim

Couple of things to check. Barrel nut. Is it tight? I have seen one that wasn't from the factory. Probably not the issue, but easy to check. Also check to see that there isn't anything in the bedded recess for the recoil lug that might be preventing it from seating.

Back action screw. Do not tighten that screw more than 35 inch pounds, or just snug. I will pull the action tang down and bend the action. There should be clearance under the action tang when it is in the stock.

The front screw should be at 65 inch pounds. And you assemble the rifle and start the front screw, lift it and set it on the butt, then snug up the screw so the recoil lug is seated against the bedding. Then snug up the back screw.

Just a few thoughts.

Jeremy

just what dpcd said the cheap tupperware stocks move

Farbedo.

[quote]farbedo posted 03 June 2020 07:41 There should be clearance under the action tang when it is in the stock.

Could you please clarify for me ?
Did you mean to say there should NOT be clearance under the action tang ?
However, if you meant there SHOULD be clearance please provide the reasoning. Just trying to understand this. Thanks.

Barrels do not go bad sitting overnight.
He means make sure your tang end is not bearing before the receiver screw area does; that can bend the receiver; but if the bedding job was good that is not an issue. One way to avoid this is to leave the tang area free floating and make sure the receiver bears only where the screws are. But that didn't suddenly happen.

I have no experience of Savage rifles - have only one and frankly I don’t like it.

But, as mentioned above, the two suspects would be the scope and mounts, or the stock fit.

I am not at familiar with Savage rifles, so bearing that in mind...

Loosen the tang screw a turn or two so it exerts no force. If the group improves and and also a significant chane of impact it is strong evdidence the bedding is a problem.


What it was like before does not really matter. You have had the rifle apart. Also, you can ed a rifle today and shoot it and accuracy is excellent. That does not mean the bedding job is spot on. Although bedding looks like a 100% contact it is not, it is really a lot of points contacting. Thus you can have a bedding job where the rifle shoots when you try but where the bedding is contacting can mean the bedding can fall over etc.

No, I said what I meant. DPCD explains it.

The bedding support where the screw comes through on a Savage 10/110 splits the screw with support to the front, but none to the rear. This means the rear screw doesn't exert even force on the action or rear bedding. It can pull the tang down and flex center of the action up. The tang should NOT contact the stock and the screw should only be just snug.

It is common to overtighten the rear screw and cause the action to flex, which can throw accuracy to hell. On the plastic stocks, it flexes the stock and the action in unpredictable ways.

On older non-accutrigger actions some accuracy seekers abandon the original rear screw hole in favor of a new hole behind/under the safety where you find the screw hole on a Remington. Then they bed it front to back.

Jeremy

Right. Savages have no tang screws; new ones don't.
They don't need one.

I talked with Savage and they said to pull the scope off and send the rifle back in to see.

I have the original Nikon scope that was deemed ok when Nikon sent it back and one of the two screws on the front mount was a little loose. Aluminum mount with two parts and two screws to each.

Thinking about putting the Nikon cope and mounts back on and see it it will tack drive again. If not then I will send the rifle back to Savage..

I will pull the action and check all and seat the action. I had bedded the plastic stock just to see and it helped but the back screw is a small area and the tang screw is just there into the plastic.

I will look at the back screw to see if it is a problem but I doubt it with the bedding material I used and how I bedded even the tang area.

Thanks, Jim

I know what you mean about bedding as the daughter in law has the same Remington 700 in 270 that that I do. It was a tack driver that was dead on till I took it apart to clean and had never been apart. I cleaned and put it back together and the stock was so tight you could not pull the fore end back. I pulled the stock and did a bedding job with the Devcon liquid steel and floated the barrel and the gun went back to shooting 3/4 inch groups. Mine is an 1982 700 that I put on an original Chet Brown synthetic stock. Back then Chet sent you a rough made stock and you finished it and did the bedding too. The 270 and 7 mag Rem 700 also in a Chet Brown stock have been dead on since then with Leopold Varix 2.5-8 scopes.

Jim, I had trouble with an aluminum mounting rail. It was soft.

Went to a steel base and flat sided bolts on the rings.

Whilst generations of hunters have used the old Weaver aluminum bases and rings, with success, I do not use them; for no good reason, I use only steel Weaver Grand Slam, or Warne, for the cross slot type, and Leupold for the turn in type. And steel rings. No issues. But you have to make sure the screws are tight in any case.
I do not use Nikon scopes either........they are not like the old cameras of the same name we used to admire......

The only reason to go back to the Nikon and aluminum set up is to see if the rifle shoots as good as it did at one time.

Just rules out that I did not screw up the Leopold mount or that I that have a bad scope.

Like most of you I do not mind problems but I want problems that I can figure out the "why" something is not working. I was a dentist for 44 years and spent most days trying to fix problems.

Jim

Jim,

I had a similar experience with my 204 Ruger which I had posted on the AR site a few years ago.

This rifle had a Krieger barrel in #2 weight and was shooting very good. I went to the range and had fired several rounds at targets and all was fine. Then I had 3 shots that was about .500 in group, but than the last 2 shots didn't hit the target. I stopped and returned home to clean the barrel. About 6 inches from the muzzle end the patch jumped a short distance and I knew by the feel that I had a swell in the barrel. I believe that the steel had a flaw and the pressure in the barrel caused it to swell. I asked Krieger if they had a bad batch of steel and the answer was no. I replaced it with a Shilen #2 and it would shoot better then the original barrel. Over the years I have found flaws in barrel steel. The barrel swell was so small that I didn't see this until the patch passed thru.

quote:

Originally posted by JimTx:
I will pull the action and check all and seat the action.

When you have the receiver out of the stock with the scope removed, see if you can unscrew the barrel from the receiver by hand.

Yep, we've had two in the shop in the last year like that.

quote:

Originally posted by jpl:

quote:

Originally posted by JimTx:
I will pull the action and check all and seat the action.

When you have the receiver out of the stock with the scope removed, see if you can unscrew the barrel from the receiver by hand.

Bobster,

Were the rifles Savages? Or somethings else.

I've heard this was somewhat common for Krags, but not modern factory rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Yep, we've had two in the shop in the last year like that.

quote:

Originally posted by jpl:

quote:

Originally posted by JimTx:
I will pull the action and check all and seat the action.

When you have the receiver out of the stock with the scope removed, see if you can unscrew the barrel from the receiver by hand.

Savage Hunter 10/111
not the cheaper Axis

quote:

Originally posted by JimTx:
Savage Hunter 10/111
not the cheaper Axis

Not taken an Savage apart. What (How) do you have to do to get the barrel tight if it is loose?
Thanks, Jim

They make a special wrench; Midway sells them and probably Brownells.
But loose nuts are very rare; yes I know someone had one.
Or use a pipe wrench like I do; I throw the nuts away anyway and install barrels with proper shoulders on them. If you don't mind the teeth marks.

This rifle has been an interesting project from a tack driver to all over the paper.

One of the Nikon front base screws about 1/4 a turn lose and shots all over the paper. Scope was sent back to N and cmae back ok.

New Leoupold 3x9 and L steel bases tight and lock tightened to place. Rifle was checked and cleaned and remounted in the base with alternating turns and the rifle shot better but I shot it out of the gun safe 3 weeks later and had a completely different zero with larger than 1.5 to 2 inch group if you can call it that with the order.

Shooting bags and table and should be dead on not higher than before. The last time the shot was dead on and 2" high and over a inch group this time first shot little higher than last time then the rest of the shots were higher and well to the right but still not any group that I would claim.

If the barrel nut is loose can you feel it by hand?

Can send it bk to Savage but shipping is not cheap.
When I first got this rifle I had to send it bk into Savage to get a NEW barrel. Before the new barrel the rounds were all over the target with no zero and lucky to be on the paper.

Here is what I would do; since it is jinxed from the start, and not typical of Savage rifles; sell it, and buy a new one. In accurate Savage rifles are quite rare. In my experience.
Loose barrel nuts? You need the special wrench and those are cheaper than shipping. Try to turn it by hand; unlikely.

I understand but from one hole to 2-4 inches and kinda random. Like many on the board I want to know why.

Does sound like a loose barrel would be a distinct possibility. Only way to find out is to try to tighten it.

Remington 783's. Same system. Both guns you could unscrew the nut and the barrel by hand. Since Remington doesn't test fire their products it wasn't caught.

quote:

Originally posted by skl1:
Bobster,

Were the rifles Savages? Or somethings else.

I've heard this was somewhat common for Krags, but not modern factory rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Bobster:
Yep, we've had two in the shop in the last year like that.

quote:

Originally posted by jpl:

quote:

Originally posted by JimTx:
I will pull the action and check all and seat the action.

When you have the receiver out of the stock with the scope removed, see if you can unscrew the barrel from the receiver by hand.

The old style splined nut can be installed with a large Crescent wrench and 4 lengths of drill rod that fit the spline grooves. Put heavy grease on the rods(to make them stick) and place them so they form a square. Then the wrench flats will bite on them.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
They make a special wrench; Midway sells them and probably Brownells.
But loose nuts are very rare; yes I know someone had one.
Or use a pipe wrench like I do; I throw the nuts away anyway and install barrels with proper shoulders on them. If you don't mind the teeth marks.

His will be the new one with one spline since I take it he recently bought it.

I have h ad the rifle 3 or 4 years and wondering now. I could not sight it in at first and sent it back to Savage and they said that they had a bad barrel and they put a new one on....

WONDER if the 7mm-08 did not have a bad barrel but had a loose barrel nut???

For 3 years the rifle put two shots in the same hole at 100 yards only to go crazy between trips. Gun not dropped and in gun safe between trips. Dead on at 2 " high on one trip to rounds 4-6 inches high and 3-5 inches to the right and in between.

New scope Leopold 3x9 and still not great. I have checked everything else for bore cleaning to fit.

Jim, Do you have access to a bore scope? One tiny delamination of the metal could wreak havoc on bullet stability. Any mfgr can miss one once in a while.

No I do not.

Question : If the barrel nut is loose. will the nut turn by hand?

If I keep messing with the rifle I will have to start reloading the loads again.

With the powders I have the Hornaday Whitetail loads are better all around. 139 gr 2880 fps no more than 3/4 inch group in 5 different rifles till this happened to the 7mm-08.

This is the last try before I have to send it back to Savage.

Maybe, maybe not; like any loose nut. How loose is loose?
It would be cheaper to buy a barrel nut wrench than shipping it to Savage. $22.99 and Free Shipping on amazon.