Weatherby is still the main draw card

June statistics

Opinions on the Weatherby DGR rifles by Teat Hound (with 237 posts and 3229 page views)

237 postings That would be close to equalling all the threads on Echols and Rem 700.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
...Opinions on the Weatherby DGR rifles by Teat Hound (with 237 posts and 3229 page views)...

Hey Mike, Where is this thread?

By the way, is there any factory rifle you would recommend to a Beginner that you believe does not need a trip to the GunSmith to make it reliable?
---

Hey Jarrod, Triped on something near the SAFE this morning and felt sure it was a Bolt Handle. Nope, it wasn't that, but I'm watching REAL close.

Had a call from a young fellow yesterday who is taking his girls on an ocean vacation before school starts. He was working me over about not going to be there for the "Opener" on 15Aug in the Lowcountry.

Then I happened to remember he had told me he would send me a VHS tape of him "Stabbing" Hogs in the Lowcountry swamps "IF" the tape didn't make him look like a fool. The Hogs are bayed with dogs and Dog Handler goes in and grabs the Hogs by their rear wet and muddy legs holding them as still as possible. Then another guy wades in amongst the dogs and Hog, and "Stabs" the Hog to kill it. They use 6"-8" bladed knives, so if your Sabre breaks off(or gets shot off), there still might be enough to Hog Hunt with.

Still don't have a copy of the Tape. Wonder what that means?!

HC,

There you go

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tp...1043/m/439104282/p/1

I searched my own posts to find it

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
Weatherby is still the main draw card

June statistics

Opinions on the Weatherby DGR rifles by Teat Hound (with 237 posts and 3229 page views)

237 postings That would be close to equalling all the threads on Echols and Rem 700.

Mike

mike,

I was only contemplating the top number of page views for August.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
Old Elk Hunter,
Hell I dont care they still got fewer moving parts then these old rifle things.
Jarrod McMillan

You might want to get a sword with the tang all the way through the hilt and a good cross block.

It is rather embarassing to have your blade fall off, leaving you with just the handle.

My grandpa brougt back an old natzi sword from WW2 will that work?

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
My grandpa brougt back an old natzi sword from WW2 will that work?

Only if it was made by Mauser!

You could at least look close at the joints on your bolt body and handle for voids or cracks.

I have a paint on system here for testing the rigging on a sailboat. You clean the metal surface and then paint on one and then another liquid and looks for the product to highlight the failure.

The one for the rigging will test bronze, steel and stainless steel.

Try this http://www.bosunsupplies.com/RiggingFlaws.cfm
http://www.asnt.org/
http://www.plant-maintenance.com/maintenance_articles_ndt.shtml

Im not sure if it is inline feed or staggered.

Surely it would stay together the Germans ars supposed to be perfectionists right?

Mike378,

You think weatherby is the main draw card huh? Well we'll just see about that. I got me a new post coming up you'll see it here in just a few. It will be over in the big bore forums.

Hotcore,
Be sure and look really really good!!

Savage99,

Not a bad idea...but if I read them correctly, those tests are for pressure joints and for hair line cracks that don’t readily show up to the naked eye.

I’m sure there is a procedure and technology for “seeing†inside a joint to determine if the filler metal in a brazed lap joint is properly applied and distributed on the parent metals...but that still doesn’t mean that a few bad ones will not slip through every now and then. These are mass produced products.

I totally agree, and have not said otherwise, that the Remington factory is sometimes prone to shoddy workmanship...like all other factories are. That, however, was never the point in anything I have posted on this topic.

Several people on here have stated, or implied, that brazed joints are inherently weak...and that is simply not true. Any decent welder or engineer can verify that fact for anyone who doubts it.

Coming Soon TO A Theatre Near You.

When lead beats steel
Sword vs Thunderstick
the final chapter

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
Coming Soon TO A Theatre Near You.

When lead beats steel
Sword vs Thunderstick
the final chapter

Based on her prior activities with contestants I think we should hire Paula Abdul to be one of the judges!!!

Rick0311,

Easy now you are getting to technical for me there. Told you I was a hillbilly.

Yeah you can hire Paula Abdul to be my judge if you want to

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
...if I read them correctly, those tests are for pressure joints and for hair line cracks that don’t readily show up to the naked eye.....

(I can't believe I'm going to beat Jarrod to this one.)

Hey Rick, That's what the hammer is for!!!
---

Hey Jarrod, Got my eyes pealed for that Thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
Yeah you can hire Paula Abdul to be my judge if you want to

Is that where the expression "Open Sez-me" comes from?

quote:

Several people on here have stated, or implied, that brazed joints are inherently weak...and that is simply not true. Any decent welder or engineer can verify that fact for anyone who doubts it.

It should be easy to just look at the joint for external cracks. The rigging testing is done just like the link shows and it's external.

Savage99,

I do not believe that the bolt in question had “cracks†that would have been visible on the outside of the joint. If you notice the picture there is one big blob of filler material in one spot, and the rest of the handle and bolt body surface is void of material where it should have been had it been done properly.

Your theory would hold true if you were examining a typical welded seam where the weld is outside of the joint. Think of the brazing process on these bolt handles as though they were a front ramp that had been “sweated†on the barrel. It’s the adhesion under the ramp, that you can’t see, that provides the holding power, and the outside edges can look perfect while there might not be any material underneath the ramp to hold it on properly.

Obviously, Remington has the ability and the technology to do this operation properly...and the hundreds of thousands of firmly attached 700 bolt handles are the real world evidence to back that statement up. Finding a few here and there that fail doesn’t provide evidence that the process is not a sound one for that particular application, it only proves that on those particular bolts the process was not done correctly.

Nothings obvious about Remington. They moved out of Illion and Dupont sold them. The next thing out of them was the 710.

Then Xray them. The technology is there.

The way the bolt handle is just brazed on means a lack of intrinsic value to me. When I got my first 722 in 1953 I did not know that it was brazed on or that there was a joint brazing the locking lugs on either. I learned about this and by the time I got out of HS I wanted a M70 so I got one.

That brazed on bolt handle is the safety lug!

To each his own.

I find it bizzare that people assign a value (or lack of same) to a method or process that they seem to have very little understanding of.

It’s sort of like someone saying (with a derogatory tone in their voice): “Oh, it’s an investment castingâ€...as if that, in and of itself, was universally understood and accepted to equate to something negative.

Opinons are wonderful things, and everyone is entitled to theirs...but they are NOT entitled to their own set of facts to back it up with.

quote:

I find it bizzare that people assign a value (or lack of same) to a method or process that they seem to have very little understanding of.

Rick,

If that quote is directed at me I will take a moment to say that I have seen the Winchester bolts being brazed on! That I grew up in a tool and die shop that did aircraft engine work of the highest quality that my late dad owned.

The freaking Remington bolt is brazed onto the side of the bolt body. Thats a really dumb design that can fail. The new rifle that I bought in 1957 had a forged bolt!

You claim to not bash others guns. Perhaps we should search your posts for with the word guns excluded.

Almost anything will work if it's done right. There is way too much evidence that Remington has a problem doing it right.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
...I have seen the Winchester bolts being brazed on! ...

Hey Don, How long ago was that? I just saw in another thread(maybe in Big Bore) where mike378 mentioned the M70 Bolt handles "are now" just pressed onto a splined shaft. He mentioned they can come loose but remain around the bolt.

I wasn't aware of this at all until I read that from mike. Anybody got an idea how long Winchester has been using that "press-on" method?

Hey Rick, Just spotted in another thread you have a son Freedom Fighting for us. I knew JCN(lawndart) did, but I was unaware you did.

Give your son a BIG Ole Semper Fi from old Hot Core the next time you talk to him. Same-e-same JCN!

I can also recommend to keep the "embedded" news folks occupied with something else when it is time for serious business. They seem a bit eager to show a MARINE doing his job in as negative a way as possible.

The so called "news" is so biased and skewed that I nearly missed knowing about the Shuttle fiasco. If it hadn't been for a neighbor laughing about the folks at NASA "wondering" if they should attept a repair, I wouldn't have known.

Watching "no news" is better than the Ultra-Liberal Radical-Leftist stuff that comes through my TV as well.

Huuuhh, nearly got WOUND UP thinking about it.
---

I could just now "mentally" feel the sand blowing against me as if I was right there with those young warriors. Even squinted. Maybe I was out in the sun too much today.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:

quote:

I find it bizzare that people assign a value (or lack of same) to a method or process that they seem to have very little understanding of.

Rick,

If that quote is directed at me I will take a moment to say that I have seen the Winchester bolts being brazed on! That I grew up in a tool and die shop that did aircraft engine work of the highest quality that my late dad owned.

The freaking Remington bolt is brazed onto the side of the bolt body. Thats a really dumb design that can fail. The new rifle that I bought in 1957 had a forged bolt!

You claim to not bash others guns. Perhaps we should search your posts for with the word guns excluded.

Almost anything will work if it's done right. There is way too much evidence that Remington has a problem doing it right.

Savage99,

Of all my many faults, being shy or timid is not among them. If I want to speak to someone directly, I will use their name...but, if the show fit’s, you certainly have my permission to put it on!

Numerous times during these recent exchanges I have very plainly stated that I am in no way defending Remingtons sometimes shoddy workmanship. From the very start I have been defending the process of brazing, and that only. I’ve spent a bit of time around tool and die shops also, and don’t really recall that much welding going on...and conversely, I spent allot of time in my uncles welding shop and didn’t see him doing much milling and lathe work either.

Search whatever you want of my posts, because I mention numerous brands of rifles all the time and have never felt any need to trash them in order to make others appear better.

If you don’t like rifles with brazed on bolt handles then don’t buy them! That’s pretty simple isn’t it?

HotCore,

Yes, my youngest son’s a SFC with the 3rd ID in Bahghdad.

I’ll pass along your words and thoughts...and since his old man’s a retired Marine he will understand, and appreciate the Semper-Fi!

Thank’s!

HC,

That information on the Model 70 bolt handle came from Bill Leeper who said they are no longer on a spline and brazed but on a knurled surface and brazed. He said he has seen two come lose.

That would still make it better than a Rem 700 in the sense that the jog of fitting the bolt handle would need to be done as well of the M70.

As a side note, one of Australia's top gunsmiths and some would say out best bloke is a very CRF and old calibre minded bloke. He is very big on 7 X 57, 300 H&H, 375, 9.3 X 62, 404, 505 etc. Although he is a lover of the Mauser he will tell you that CRF is where the trouble is and while he hates Rem 700s they are the trouble free actions.

Mike

quote:

Savage99,

Of all my many faults, being shy or timid is not among them. If I want to speak to someone directly, I will use their name...but, if the show fit’s, you certainly have my permission to put it on! Smiler

No, it does not fit. I just wanted to point out that your wrong.

Quote Rick "Numerous times during these recent exchanges I have very plainly stated that I am in no way defending Remingtons sometimes shoddy workmanship."

Ostensibly you have been defending brazing and that the Remington is ok. That's your position. Of course brazing works but the Remington application is wrong for brazing.

Quote Rick "I’ve spent a bit of time around tool and die shops also, and don’t really recall that much welding going on...and conversely, I spent allot of time in my uncles welding shop and didn’t see him doing much milling and lathe work either."

Of course it depends on the shop. My dad was welding, silver soldering and copper brazing all of the time it seemed fixing stuff and he had one of his toolmakers certified by the navy for the military work.

Quote Rick "Search whatever you want of my posts, because I mention numerous brands of rifles all the time and have never felt any need to trash them in order to make others appear better."

So you have really said nothing of value about the topic. You defended brazing when it does not need defending. What needs defending is the Remington process control and most of all the third rate design. The bolt handle on a bolt action rifle is fundimental to the operation of the gun. Brazing it on is bad engineering.

I looked at the brazing job on the 40X here and if one was breaking it could well be failing from an outside edge of the joint. Thus a crack finder might discover a problem before it failed. In any case set screws will not work as they have no head! A pan head screw or screws would look fine and then if the braze failed the screws could hold.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:

quote:

Savage99,

Of all my many faults, being shy or timid is not among them. If I want to speak to someone directly, I will use their name...but, if the show fit’s, you certainly have my permission to put it on! Smiler

No, it does not fit. I just wanted to point out that your wrong.

Savage99,

Have you ever noticed that the “W†and the “E†are right next to each other on the key board? I just noticed that I offered to let you put a “show†on your foot!


...What exactly have I said that’s wrong?

You’re starting to sound like a jilted lover or something!

Perhaps, I’m just not all that used to grown men getting this worked up and visceral over an inanimate object.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
HC,

That information on the Model 70 bolt handle came from Bill Leeper who said they are no longer on a spline and brazed but on a knurled surface and brazed. He said he has seen two come lose.

That would still make it better than a Rem 700 in the sense that the jog of fitting the bolt handle would need to be done as well of the M70.

As a side note, one of Australia's top gunsmiths and some would say out best bloke is a very CRF and old calibre minded bloke. He is very big on 7 X 57, 300 H&H, 375, 9.3 X 62, 404, 505 etc. Although he is a lover of the Mauser he will tell you that CRF is where the trouble is and while he hates Rem 700s they are the trouble free actions.

Mike

Hey, Mike!

Do you know of a guide/outfitter in Australia by the name of Bob Penfold?

The reason I ask is there is an article in the 2005 Gun Digest about a hunting trip in Australia and the author mentions that this guy is supposed to be pretty famous down there.

Anyway...this Mr. Penfold says that his two favorite rifles are a BRNO 602 in .375 H&H mag, and Remington 700 BDL in .308. He says that he has fired over 300,000 rounds through the 700, and while he replaced three barrels over the years nothing has ever broken on it. He did say that he had to replace the extractor, after about 250,000 rounds, because it had just worn down from handling so many rounds. Didn’t break, just was worn out and not grabbing real well.

Thought I’d check with someone from “down under!â€

quote:

...What exactly have I said that’s wrong?

That's the thing Rick. What you say is wrong but that's why you say it. Your living in a catch 22 and that's why you don't understand others.

Rick,

Pendfold was the big time outfitter down here for the Northern Territory.

What is interesting is that Australia would be easily the high volume shooting place but the CRF does not have any special status at all.

However, very high volume shooting also means far less importance attached to each animal or "event". Australians will tend to talk in ternms of the "success of the shooting trip" as opposed to discussion of a particular shot.

I think in Australia another aspect is that a lot of crappy ammo is used, it bounces all around the truck, falls on the ground etc and etc and if there is one thing that brings CRF undone it is case rim and extractor groove dimensions.

Also, a lot of shooting that is done here is done with single loading. The average shooter does not have any interest in being able to alter the extractor to make CRF easy to single load.

The main problem with M70s is extractors that are to loose which will also be compounded by case head dimensions. Pull the bolt back slowly and you leave the round on the follower. Of course is the extractor is too tight then you have another problem.

If all rifles were inline Push Feed then D'Arcy Echols and others would be out of business since making a reliable in line feed Push Feed is not a big deal

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:

quote:

...What exactly have I said that’s wrong?

That's the thing Rick. What you say is wrong but that's why you say it. Your living in a catch 22 and that's why you don't understand others.

Savage99,

Try as I might, I can’t make the least bit of sense out of what you just said...maybe it’s me!

I consider your views on Remington rifles as your “opinion†and I don’t feel any need to argue the wrong or right of something as universal and nebulas as an opinion where there is no wrong or right...just different opinions.

As for your statements about the strength of brazing...those are just wrong, and there is no need to argue the obvious and provable.

Mike,

Your statement sort of signifies one of the traits that I admire, and see often in my Australian friends. They seem to be far more concerned with “doing†something, rather than with the how, or with what, it is “done.â€

I like that in a person.

The only way to break off a Remmie bolt handle is to go hunting with one! It also holds true for making them double feed!
bigbull

quote:

Originally posted by bigbull:
The only way to break off a Remmie bolt handle is to go hunting with one! It also holds true for making them double feed!
bigbull

Utterly Brilliant! Is the hospital still letting patients out during the week?...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
...That information on the Model 70 bolt handle came from Bill Leeper who said they are no longer on a spline and brazed but on a knurled surface and brazed. He said he has seen two come lose...

Hey Mike, Thanks for the info. I don't follow the M70 threads real close and was unaware of that.

And even though Mr. Leeper didn't make "The(Holy Grail of GunSmith) List" by our resident arrogant loud-mouth blow-hard, I would personally tend to believe what Mr. Leeper says is absolutely correct.

So, now we have to add "Falling off Bolt Handles" to the long list of M70 problems. Thank goodness it rarely happens on those fine Remingtons.

How much longer before the show starts?
I'm getting me sword gooood and sharppp!

I’m in negotiations with Paula Abdul for the host position...and talking to the Enzite people to see if we can use “Bob†as a commercial spokesman. Can’t have any “flaccid†swords!