Partially bubba'ed (before my time) 1908 Brazillian Mauser (DWM-Berlin) in .280 Rem with no history of problems (cept accuracy!) at the range yesterday. Round #6, Remington 140 grain PSP, firing pin falls, no fire! A-hole puckers, I count to 10, turn my head away, and eject the round.

Light primer strike. Let the cursing begin.

I've cleaned...no gunk in the channel.

I've checked the pin, no damage.

I've checked the cartridge. I can hear the powder swishing, so it's live, assuming the primer is good. I have not tried to fire it again, yet, but that wouldn't explain a light pin mark anyway. Shoulder location measures fine against both new and fired cases, so I can scratch that.

I have probably 500 rounds through this thing in the last 8 years I've owned it with no problems. I've looked at the last 20 or so cases and they all have nice clean, deep firing pin marks.

What am I missing? The only thing I have no feel for is firing pin spring strength, but they don't just go all at once I would think...

WTF!?!? Just 'one of them things?' Suggestions? Thanks in advance!

spring failed?

empty gun...
work bolt..
closed..
open
pay CAREFUL attention to how much effort it takes to lift the COCKED bolt..

rework bolt
drop firing pin..
pay attention to how much it took to lift

noticeably different???

pull that bullet...

empty brass...

at the range, load chamber with same case
pop primer

anything?

did you try another round after? might have resized that one too much, and it slid forward in the chamber?

jeffe

Have you had the bolt apart recently? I had a problem with my Whitworth. I failed to make sure the firing pin was put back in properly. 1/2 turn and problem gone.

I pulled the bolt apart right before starting this thread...nothing obvious, no broken spring, no gunk, etc. I have no way to check spring strength, but the first 5 at the range fired fine and primer dimples were visually identical to rounds fired some time ago.

Factory ammo, shoulder location ok by visual inspection, so I don't think it was short.

5 good shots at the range before this misfire, so the gun was working fine to that point.

Light dimple in the primer tells me it had a round chambered... Good dimples on the previous 5 says something too.

I could hear the pin fall, (so did a friend at the next bench who was talking to me as I pulled the trigger ) so it was cocked...dunno if a Mauser can somehow 'half cock'??? Doesn't seem possible as I look at the sear arangement, but I'm an EE, not a ME.

I quit a that point...it was a quickie during lunch hour, time was short, and I really don't like 'experimenting' with issues like that until I've had a chance to check out mechanical function. I'll try to re-fire it next time out. Thanks!

Just for the heck of it, check headspace with a headspace guage. I know you have fired a ton of ammo through and everyting was okay, but 1908s have been reported to be quite soft, and I am just guessing that headspace changed a bit over time. Its probably not what is wrong with it, but Why not check it to be safe?

Are you 100% sure that the bolt was 100% closed. If it wasn't, then some of the mainspring energy was used to finish closing the bolt causing a light firing spring strike. You said that you were talking to your buddy at the next bench while the shot was occuring. You could have been distracted. I've seen this happen on more than one occasion...Rojelio

You need to empty the cartridge and fire the primer to eliminate the "bad primer" possibility. Might even fire a couple prior to get a feel for what the average primer fire looks and sounds like.

If you have a slight mark on the primers after the firing pin falls, then you don't have the firing pin shroud on far enough. Same thing happend to me. Just turn the shroud further and I think you will slove the problem.

What you have now doesn't allow the firing pin travel far enouh to strike the primer. I spent the better part of a day figuring out I'd screwed up.

I don't have a headspace gauge, but fired cases 'should' give a good headspace measurement. I just eyeballed it...when I have time I'll break out the calipers. I've had factory ammo be short before and give issues like this, but that didn't look like the case here.

Partially open bolt occurred to me...but there is really no way to check, so it was process of elimination to get there. You're not implying that I might be the problem!?!?

No, but, if that's the only time this has occured, human error is a strong possibility. If it never happens again....I think....well, you know....have a good day, Rojelio

Did you try to fire any other rounds after the one misfire? It may well be the one round is short. It is a very rare occurence but with new brass it is certainly possible.

If the rifle worked before you took the bolt apart, then you didn't put it back together properly.
Mauser bolt

The retaining pin is hitting the bolt handle and not allowing you to turn it another half a turn. lift the pin over the bolt and turn the shroud further.
Trust me on this!
If this doesn't work, then I'll buy the beer!

He said it was round #6. It was firing before this occured. Rojelio

CStox, I've seen short ammo too, esp. from Remington/UMC, but it usually fires and backs out primers. I was expecting that if it was short enough to not fire, it would be visually apparent measured against fired cases. I've also had high primers do this exact thing, but only on pistol ammo. I figure the firing mechanism on a rifle is strong enough (compared to a pistol) to seat a loose primer and fire it, but I'm FAR from an expert. That's why I come to you guys (and gals, if there happens to be some lurking).

Rusty, good thing it is early in the morning. If it was afternoon, I would be realllllllly thirsty! I've had that brain fart too, BTW, but it backs out the pin far enough that it will not strike the primer at all. I have a definate light primer mark in this case.

I talked to my range buddy...he said he was looking at the rifle as I pulled the trigger and saw the firing pin move, but didn't see the bolt handle shift, at least not enough to catch his attention. For what it's worth.

Anyone have a headspace gauge for a .280 Rem that I could beg/borrow/steal/rent for a weekend, just to be sure?

It's noon somewhere!

Could some of your primers have gotten some oil on them? Maybe a little WD 40? Happenned to me once and they became duds.

Go fire a few more rounds through it, preferably with a different brand/lot of ammo.

Right now, you are dealing with a one-time, not duplicated, nothing eliminated, single occurence, scenario.

You basically have nothing to work with, and are fishing.

You will then know whether you should be suspecting the rifle or the ammo.

The main thing, above all else, IS BE SAFE!!!

quote:

The main thing, above all else, IS BE SAFE!!!

That's why I stopped without trying to shoot it again.

quote:

You basically have nothing to work with, and are fishing.

Yeah, sort of, but even one time events can be traced out most of the time if we work at it hard enough. It beats shrapnel! Been there, done that, not again if I can avoid it!

The bullet puller was at the house, it was late, and I wan't in an adventuresome mood, so I packed up after the misfire. I'll pull the bullet and see if the primer fires tonight.

Had this happen on my Rem 1100 while shooting 5-stand with rem ammo several years ago. Put another round in and continued on. That shell never went bang even after several tries.

I am betting it is a bad round since the other 6 went bang.

Lacking any other data, I'll vote on the bad round theory too. Actually it is a "bad primer" theory, possibly the metal in the cup is a tiny bit too thick.

At any rate, don't use that lot of primers for hunting!

Well, tonight I pulled the bullet, emptied the case and sure enough it fired the primer just fine...

In the total absence of mechanical indications, I'll chalk it up to either a high primer or a very slightly open bolt.

One bad round, so Remington ammo sucks!

Now if I could just get some accuracy out of it, but that's another story.

Thanks for the help!

Glad to see that you found the apparent problem.

I had a ruger mannlicher 30-06 in the early 80s.Had same problem several times with only remington ammo.Lucky always target shooting when it happened,so I would never hunt with remington ammo with that rifle...Never had the problem with other brands,always remington....By the way,I would always rechamber the round and it would shoot on the second try....

HELLO THE CAMPFIRE:
I DO NOT LIKE REMINGTON BRASS. (sorry I am not shouting, cap. lock was on) In One of our 3006 everythings loads. fires extracts and ejects perfectly, except Remington brass. It does not matter if it is factory or repoads, the rifle just will not draw it out of the chamber. It sticks so bad that I have to drive it out with a rod. I have had the chamber polished, tried various loadings, checked the extractor, nothing works with the Remingtons. Winchester, Hornaday, Norma, everythng else works great. There are no marks on the brass.
The only thing I can figure is that the Remington brass is either softer or thiner than the others and it does not spring back to its proper size when fired. It does not seem too large on re-sizing, and chambers fine. It extracts fine until it is fired.
Any thoughts other than don't use Remington amuniton ( I thoght of that one)?
Judge Sharpe

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeSharpe:
HELLO THE CAMPFIRE:
I DO NOT LIKE REMINGTON BRASS. (sorry I am not shouting, cap. lock was on) In One of our 3006 everythings loads. fires extracts and ejects perfectly, except Remington brass. It does not matter if it is factory or repoads, the rifle just will not draw it out of the chamber. It sticks so bad that I have to drive it out with a rod. I have had the chamber polished, tried various loadings, checked the extractor, nothing works with the Remingtons. Winchester, Hornaday, Norma, everythng else works great. There are no marks on the brass.
The only thing I can figure is that the Remington brass is either softer or thiner than the others and it does not spring back to its proper size when fired. It does not seem too large on re-sizing, and chambers fine. It extracts fine until it is fired.
Any thoughts other than don't use Remington amuniton ( I thoght of that one)?
Judge Sharpe

I have been using Remington, Winchester, and Norma brass for the past 51 years, and have never had an experience like yours with ANY brand. However, I once had a lot of Winchester .375 H&H cases that had offcenter flashholes.....

Norma are the only ones I have found to be soft, and they seem to have solved that deficiency. Remington cases often are found to be thicker, and sometimes require a lighter powder charge to get the same pressure & velocity than Winchester cases. I have never found Remington brass to be soft, however.

Haven't found any green & yellow box ammo that shoots as good as Federal Premiums, and in fact, our local 'smith usually tells folks who are complaining about inaccuracy from Rem ammo to expect that from WM specials.