What happens if you block the muzzel of a huntingrifle in kal 6,5x55 by treading in a m8x30mm allenscrew in the muzzel.

Experiment no:

1: 24" barrel in CrMo .6" muzzel dia no flute
2: 24" barrel in CrMo .6" muzzel dia 0.06"deep flutes
3: 24" barrel in stainless .6" muzzel dia 0.06" deep flutes
4: 24" barrel in CrMo .9 muzzel dia no flutes


Please for your own safety DONT TRY THIS YOURSELVE to get an answer

I'm just guessing here, but you would probably screw up an otherwise good crown.

We don't generally have that kind of problems here, the folks here prefer to plug/block their barrels with snow and mud. I suppose the results would be similar.

A little further information.
The tests vas performed in conection with a series of "blowup" experiments, performed to evaluate what i call "passive riflesafety".
The main purpose of the experiments was to finde out. How usererrors would cause injuries on the shooter.

In the line of experiments was also included the abowe mentioned barrelblocking expirement, along with heavy overload in several diferent actions.

Testcaliber was 6,5x55
barrels vas without rifeling , just bored in borediameter, this was done to have uniform and cheap testmaterials in uniform dimentions
Among diferent charges was used 42gr 44gr 46gr 48gr Norma N200 powder (can anyone with knowledge of loadingprograms give me an estimate of the preasure)

Theese tests was performed to simulate the realoader picking a wrong powdercann.
We also tested what happens when an extra bullet was stuck in the forcingcone before fiering another round.

I just thoughe it could be interesting to know what people with more than avarage interest in rifeles , would expect to hapens in theese situations.

Acording the results of owerloads in diferent types of actions i dont dare to publicate the results, Fearing leagal clames from some
Weaponmanufactures. I also dont want to spoil the nightsleep of people with a firm belive on safety in some old and famouse constructions

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What happens if you block the muzzel of a huntingrifle in kal 6,5x55 by treading in a m8x30mm allenscrew in the muzzel.

Experiment no:

1: 24" barrel in CrMo .6" muzzel dia no flute
2: 24" barrel in CrMo .6" muzzel dia 0.06"deep flutes
3: 24" barrel in stainless .6" muzzel dia 0.06" deep flutes
4: 24" barrel in CrMo .9 muzzel dia no flutes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Results
#1 only an 8x30mm screv treaded into the muzzle, the barrel was shortened by 30mm, and acheved a little trumphet shape.
With a m8x30mm screw and with an 4" steelrod in the muzzle, the results was as disapointing as just KLIK--pzzzzzzzz
In both cases no sighns of high preasure on the brass
#2 Only with m8x30mm screw in the muzzle, an rapid way to shorten the barrel about 30mm
With both screw and 4" steelrod, 5 cm long bulging with 3 splits along flutes
#3 With m8x30mm screw, the results was a nice lampfoot, with 3 legs split 8" along the flutes
#4 First attempt with m8x15mm screw = the screw just disapeared. Second to fifth attempt = KLIK---pzzzzzzzz, when 4 bullits was fiered in the same barrel, ther was a tiny bulging and a narrow crack

In all the previus attemts, ther was no sighns of high preasure on the brass, flat primers or increased headdiameters, and no heawy boltlifts

After this we did the final test, with 1 bullet hammered in the muzzle, 1 4" steelrod just ahead of the chamber, 1 bullet hammered in the freebore, just deep enough to chamber an extra round. The result was extreeme preasure, where the locking was heawily setback, at the same time the action split, but no parte was further away from the action, than 1 meter. To check for possible faceinjurys, we hat installed a carton plate 10" behind the action, and after the burst, ther was no holes in the carton



#1

#2

And with a 4"steelrod in the barrel

#3 Lampfoot

#4 after 4 rounds in the same blocked barrel


#5 barrel blocked in both ends

And a litle extra job for the gunsmith

FINALY: The best way to use a SS fluted barrel


JBN

Just what I thought, ruined the crown. Is that bubble gum I see in that truck axel?

Jorgen,
May I ask your opinion as to the possible cause of this action separation. BTW.....is that a Schulz and Larson action? Hard to tell but appears to be rear locking.

Barrel not threaded? Does this action and barrel use a press fit and pinned arrangment?

I can understand what the experiment was trying to prove: What happens when different powder charges are fired into a plugged barrel.

Whatever the results of test, the barrel (or in the case of the last picture, the action) is scrapped.

Not to sound snobbish, but any fool could have told you that.

What am I missing?

Hey Jorgen, Looks like the "Flutes" provide a Pressure Release(Safety) advantage.

Huuuummm..., perhaps ALL M70s ever made should be recalled and have Fluted Barrels put on them to help protect the Trigger Yankers.

Oh yes, don't want to leave out the Exploding SAKOs, quite obviously they need ALL Fluted Barrels as well.
---

Nice test. Kind of surprised you all do not have access to the various Ballistics Programs that would "guess" at the Pressure for you.

Is there a particular reason you all did not use one of the (generally worthless) non-calibrated Strain Gauge fiascos?

A television show here called Mythbusters performed similar experiments once. Their results were surprising but not as dramatic as the results you show jorgen. I can't remember the different ways they plugged the muzzle but I do remember that at one point they welded something on to the end of the muzzle. Basically it just blew the welded plug off.
They received more dramatic results from a similar experiment they did on a shotgun.

okay... blocked barrels blow up.. i don't get it, but its your time and money

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:
quote:
In both cases no sighns of high preasure on the brass

Hey, great test, Jorgen, don't pay attention to some of the hardheads on this forum.

I am puzzled about the KLIK-pzzzzzz. Would you please explain that?

quote:

Originally posted by popenmann:
I am puzzled about the KLIK-pzzzzzz. Would you please explain that?

I believe the "KLIK-pzzzzz" is a reference to a squib load. Speaking of which, two weeks ago I removed 3 bullets from the barrel of a Colt Trooper. And, about 20 years ago I removed 6 from a Smith and Wesson. Number 6 didn't quite clear the gap. Lucky for these two, none of their loads were fully charged. Kinda like the shooters themselves.

quote:

Originally posted by ShopCartRacing:

What am I missing?

A brain perhaps?

quote:

I am puzzled about the KLIK-pzzzzzz. Would you please explain that?

I would think that was KLIK...firing pin drops, and pzzzz of high pressure gas venting/bleeding however and wherever it was able to...

I suspect the test would be different with a larger case, as the ultimate pressre from a blocked bore and a 6.5x55 would be much lower than from say a 308 Laupa...

quote:

Originally posted by CDH:

quote:

I am puzzled about the KLIK-pzzzzzz. Would you please explain that?

I would think that was KLIK...firing pin drops, and pzzzz of high pressure gas venting/bleeding however and wherever it was able to...

I suspect the test would be different with a larger case, as the ultimate pressre from a blocked bore and a 6.5x55 would be much lower than from say a 308 Laupa...

you are right about the KLIK-PZZZZZZ Completly blocking a strongenough barrel, is the perfect silenzer.
The tests indicate that depending on barrelvolume/casevolume ratio, you can block a barrel from 2" to 10" lenght, without creating to high preasure. That also suports the idea of that all powder is transformed into hot gasses within the first 2-10 inshes of barrel, the rest of the way it is only hot compressed air, and the muzzleblast on som calibers is not unburned powder, but just glowing gasses getting into contact with oxygen

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
okay... blocked barrels blow up.. i don't get it, but its your time and money

Dont be so grumpy
As i wrote earlier, these tests was performed to evaluate passive safety on our rifeles, if "shit happenes"
You can look at it as the same as the automobileindustri does, when chrashtesting ther diferent models, to prevent unnesesary injurys on drivers and pasengers

quote:

Originally posted by ShopCartRacing:
I can understand what the experiment was trying to prove: What happens when different powder charges are fired into a plugged barrel.

Whatever the results of test, the barrel (or in the case of the last picture, the action) is scrapped.

Not to sound snobbish, but any fool could have told you that.

What am I missing?

Could any fool also have told me, if the bolt has gone backwards trough the shooters head, if the action did burst, or could you perhaps have told me in witsh directions particles and pices would fly, and what kinds of injury they would cause to the shooter????.
Or what i could do to make the actions more safe in case of overloads???

[QUOTE]Originally posted by vapodog:
Jorgen,
May I ask your opinion as to the possible cause of this action separation. BTW.....is that a Schultz & Larsen action? Hard to tell but appears to be rear locking.



The cause was sever deformation of the counterholds for the lugs, causing the barrelend to expand, and therefor spiltting the action. The bolt locks directly in the barrel. And it is a switch barrel system of the mentioned make.
I asume that one of the reasons for the bolt to not go backwards, is that both the bolthandel, and the boltstop on that model works as a sort of 4. and 5. safetylugs, if the 3 primary lugs is set back

Similar tests was performed by gradualy increasing powdercharges, as earlier described 160 grains bullet on top of 44 grains Norma 200 powder destroyed 3 CRF actions, where the base of the brass got almost liqid. On the shown action you could open the rifle with just light resistans on the bolthandel.
Using 46 grains the boltlift vas quite heavy.and the brass looked as a belted magnumcase
On 48grains the results was as on the picture

Jørgen, this is Amerika. The way this is presented, people can easily think you are a bit Ignorant,(pardon the pun)and have more money than brains. If you presented yourself and explained why, this test would easily get the respect it deserves.

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
Jørgen, this is Amerika. The way this is presented, people can easily think you are a bit Ignorant,(pardon the pun)and have more money than brains. If you presented yourself and explained why, this test would easily get the respect it reserves.

OK, but i just didnt want to make this look to mutch like marketing

But i can inform that i am the old "lunatic" with long and grey beard, that they keep down in the basement by Schultz & Larsen. And who is only let out now an then, when they need new designs

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:

quote:

Originally posted by Bent Fossdal:
Jørgen, this is Amerika. The way this is presented, people can easily think you are a bit Ignorant,(pardon the pun)and have more money than brains. If you presented yourself and explained why, this test would easily get the respect it reserves.

OK, but i just didnt want to make this look to mutch like marketing

But i can inform that i am the old "lunatic" with long and grey beard, that they keep down in the basement by Schultz & Larsen. And who is only let out now an then, when they need new designs

I for one, appreciate the post. It wasn't to hard to see the pupose of what was proposed. I appreciate the sharing of results because it is not something I have the time or resources to duplicate.

A friend and I were discussing the action. I'll admit I did not know what it was but I did tell him that it looked like the lugs locked directly into the barrel and that it was likely a switch barrel design.

Thanks for the interesting reading & pics.

quote:

Originally posted by jørgen:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
okay... blocked barrels blow up.. i don't get it, but its your time and money

Dont be so grumpy
As i wrote earlier, these tests was performed to evaluate passive safety on our rifeles, if "shit happenes"
You can look at it as the same as the automobileindustri does, when chrashtesting ther diferent models, to prevent unnesesary injurys on drivers and pasengers

okay, NOW i get it!! didn't mean to be grumpy

I get it now, just a few bugs needed to be worked out of the wording.

It would seem that in order to gather enough data to make a qualified statement as to what will happen at each stage of barrel blockage, more than one gun will need to be tested.

Do you plan on repeating this same test?

-Spencer