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Do any of you have problems with sanding and checker dust? I have been trying to make up a Mexican 98 7X57 for myself and the same old thing happened. Every time I start sanding or checkering the sinus starts to pour. This time a full blown stop up!!! Only one more stock that I started several years ago and it will be my last. Time to stop.. | ||
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I'd never heard of it, but there are several pages on the internet about allergic reactions to walnut dust, so you're not alone. Have you tried a dust mask? | |||
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I've worked with black walnut for 40 years and have often been told that the dust should not be inhaled as it can be toxic.....well...maybe but it don't seem to effect everyone the same. I've also been warned about inhaling dust from ebony and cocobolo.....again it hasn't bothered me. Wear a mask and see if it helps.....if that don't work send the stock out for checkering. Bill Sovern does fine work and might be available. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Les, man, it breaks my heart to hear that... black, yes, sometimes i get stuffed up, not just from dust (bogger-crete), but from alergies. english and turkish seem to be better, but still not wonderful. jana has me wearing 1/2 face or at least paper dusters when I am turning and sanding jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeffe, as you know I have been at this too long. The is my 50th year making stocks. Over time it build in ones system to cause reactions. So much of things we gunsmiths use are poison to the body. I have used dust masks, but this time I didn't. Here is a picture of my checkering tools with the air blowing away from the user. | |||
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Les, you are kind of a hero around here... please don't go quiting making stocks... jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Myabe you need to use vacume rather than air pressure in them hoses on the checkering tools. I got allergies real bad a few years ago to where my nose would run almost continuously. Seen a nose doctor and he did surgery on me, cleaned out my sinus cavities and fixed a deviated septum, and the problems went away. Might be worth checking with a good nose doc. John | |||
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You need a really good respirator and a really good dust collector .An allergist may be able to help with desensitization treatments. | |||
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the guy who taught me how to forge knives and make Damascus would have bad reactions to it. I think it is on a case by case basis. I never have had a problem with it, but I sure do HATE the way it smells!!! | |||
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and Cocabola would really set him off. I know it is toxic to everyone, but this guy had really bad reactions to it. The more I think about it, maybe he was just allergic to trees or something | |||
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Black, claro, and bastogne have all caused me sneezing fits from time to time. Thin shell walnut has never been an issue. | |||
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Alaskan yellow Cedar sawdust attacks my nose like snorting Bon Ami cleaner. Douglas Fir slivers under my skin make a burning sensation like holy water on Linda Blair. Sensational similes by Dan Rather. Stolen from the internet:
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Les, I have Mild Asthma and occasionally wood dust can light me up pretty good. I've tried a couple types of dust masks. Working around a lot of automotive body shops I found that the 3M disposable double filter masks that Automotive Painters use are far more effective than regular dust masks and are only $20-30 or so IIRC- they also worked great for changing my kids diapers. Autobody Supply houses also carry higher grade dust masks than what you usually see at the local builders mart. I hope you will at least try some of the better more comfortable masks before you give up your fine Stock Making!.......................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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LesBrooks- I'm wondering about the post concerning your rig, also- having the tools vacuum the dust rather than disperse it. That's a hot idea, especially if the apparatus could be switched from tool to tool, and not be too clumsy. And if the vacuum source was quiet, or sufficiently removed from the area so as to be quiet. I mean a hot idea like marketable. I was sensitized to the chemicals in Krylon spray paint years ago- if it's being used, I have to get out of the area, or I'm very soon nauseated and have a jackhammer headache. I used to clean machinery with acetone, using rags, to the point that my skin would go "fuzzy". I don't even want to know what damage it did, or what I am experiencing from it now, or will later. Masks are a good idea, but you have to put a gun to my head to get me to put one on. | |||
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I think that's a good idea. You could try sanding/checkering next to an exhaust fan. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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well there's always working outside in a 30 MPH wind. seriously there are definate allergies to woods. masks will filter most out, but you must be somewhat mask wise. there are several types with dozens of types of filters. you must know what your particle is and what you body can stand. To tight a filter makes breathing harder and can cause problems in itself. The good thing is that the dust is a particle not a gas, thus can be handled by exhaust and fresh air (usually this means a 5 MPH breeze blowing by) or particle filters. | |||
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In Monte Kennedy's book on checkering one of the contributers, not sure if it was Monte or not, mentioned that he tried to checker outside whenever the light and weather was suitable for such. It was 8 deg outside when I got up this morning, so i don't thnk I'll be doing any outside gunsmithing today. John | |||
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If vacuum on the tools doesn't work, and if a mask doesn't help, there is a more drastic approach. Some paints must be applied with a mask that receives air pumped from outside the shop. | |||
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Thanks folks for the reply. I think I will try to come up with a vacuum hose attachment for the tools. The clear plastic hose on the handles does not cause any problems, so why not a larger hose to get the vacuum volume up. I will be trying this shortly. | |||
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Les, Funny you should post this. I just came back from the Pulmonologist - it seems that after 30 years of fooling around with walnut I'm now "sensitized" to walnut dust and it gives me asthma like reaction. I get post nasal drip and resultant coughing at night. I'm going to be using a 1/2 face respirator and high efficiency dust filters. I'm hobbiest and a real vacuum system for the bench is still a bit pricey but under consideration. | |||
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Now I'm laughing....I just came in fromthe shop where I jointed and sawed a large amount of ash for my house.....both floors and ceilings and also thin stuff for lower half of walls. I was sneezing and snorting as I walked to the house and so was my chocolate Labrador who also sat in the shop and watched (supervised) me all the time. Apparantly humans aren't the only ones that react to certain sawdust! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I also suffer from walnut dust. One thing that helps is a good sinus rinse when I'm done. A company called neilmed offers a good one. It's basically a eight ounce squeeze bottle full of saline solution. You stick it in your nose and give it a good squeeze, once each nostril. It takes a bit of getting used to but really flushes out the dust. ______________________ Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. | |||
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Moderator |
All dusts are bad for you, and some folks are more sensitive than others. I know it's a pain to always put on a respirator (dust masks are nearly useless) but if you want to projetct your lungs, that's what you need to do. __________________________________________________ The AR series of rounds, ridding the world of 7mm rem mags, one gun at a time. | |||
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The 1st I did I had no idea. I sanded in a very small area blowing the dust away when it built up. I came down with a bad respiratory infection. It took about a week to get over it. From then on I vacuum up the dust when builds up and haven't had a problem since. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Les Dust from any source can be irritating to the respiratory tissues, including the conjuctiva (eye), nose, throat and broncial airways. Some large protein molecules like ragweed pollen, molds and cat dander are especially troublesome because they provoke an allergic reaction. This means that your immune system recognizes them as foreign and makes an antibody that reacts with the protein releasing histamine. For these reactions, antihistamines or desensitisation may help. Some wood, like cedar, redwood, cypris and tropical woods (including cocobola) that have high resistance to decay have phthlic acids that can be very irritating and cause chemical asthma. Diisocyanates like the solvent in Deft Finishes, cause especially troublesome chemical asthma. For most dust from sanding other than cedar, the size of the particle determines how far it travels into the respiratory tract and how troublesome the symptoms. The wood molecule typically does not provoke a true allergy response with IgE formation but if the correct size, it gets far enough down in the membrane to irritate and provoke a physical reaction. The best treatment is always avoidance, but your family doctor or pulmonary specialist can give you medications that reduce injury, irritation and inflammation in both the nose and lungs. If your problem is mostly nasal, a quick spray of chromalyn or a nasal steroid before exposure will markedly reduce the reaction and may eliminate the symptoms. I have had rhinitis and asthma for 40 years, and have tried many types of barriers including filters, masks and outside air sources. Maybe its me, maybe its because I don't have to make a living sanding wood, but I find it hard to remember the mask. I use eye and ear protection regularly, but the airway protection gets forgotten. I sand outside when possible, and have taken to using scrapers. The best for me is meds. Ask your Doc Roger | |||
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<xs headspace> |
OK, seriously, now, I built a sanding table. The thing has a top with lots of holes in the plywood, with a rubber mesh on it that is sold for drawer/toolbox liner, so the work doesn't slide around. In the box under the top,is a squirrel cage fan, that sucks air down thru the holes, and blows it out through a high quality furnace filter. No mask needed, and the rest of the shop stays clean. | ||
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I am glad that I posted this for all to see. You people that haven't work around the walnut long enough for the body to react should take notice. I don't believe that this is a plain old cold. No chills or fever, but sinus and brochial tube conjestion. I like the table for sanding that XS mentioned. If I were going to continue working I would build this table. This a a serious problem for all of us. Thanks all for the help, Les | |||
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Les, Your symptoms are a lot like my father-in-laws, after I gave him a bunch of rough sawn walnut for a table he wanted to build. He is pretty meticulous about dust control, masks etc and it still got him. Walnut is known to have strong allelopathic capabilities and that probably accounts for what you are experiencing. It too my FIL about 3 months to get over it. Brent When there is lead in the air, there is hope in my heart -- MWH ~1996 | |||
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Les, In my work, I have to wear a respirator, am fit tested regularly and undergo a pulmonary function test(pft)exam yearly. I would recommend an air purifying half face respirator with, or full face if you are experiencing some type of vapor that may affect your eyes. Here is a link : http://www.envirosafetyproducts.com/product/3M_7500_Ser...Respirator_Assembly# Also, replace your filters regularly and perform a self fit test by covering the filters with your hands then breathing in then covering the exhalation valve with your hand and breath out. If air escapes during either of these, make adjustments to the headgear then retest. This type of respirator is an absolute minimum, as dust masks allow particulates to pass between the skin and the filter during inhalation. Showering and removing work clothing after exposure to your wood dust will also alleviate particulate exposure symptoms. Good luck and trash your dust masks, they don't work that well. | |||
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I own my own contracting buisness and had a project a few months ago that used a lot mahogany.The dust that wood makes is the most toxic of any I've ever seen in 20 years of working with wood. It's always so quiet when the goldfish die.(Bror Blixen) DRSS Merkel 470 NE | |||
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Just out of curiosity, how did you arrive at that conclusion? | |||
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My statement is from the way it burned your eyes and breathing passages if any got through the mask.I have'nt worked with a lot of the African exotic woods so I can't say with them.But among what I've worked with the dust seemed very acidic.Just my opinion. It's always so quiet when the goldfish die.(Bror Blixen) DRSS Merkel 470 NE | |||
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I was just hoping your crew didn’t drop dead! Maybe the term “irritant†would be more appropriate than “toxic.†Toxic means that something is poisonous. | |||
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Yes I guess irritant would have been a better use of words,although it may not be poisonous it sure is unpleasant.Everyone did survive. Happy New Year It's always so quiet when the goldfish die.(Bror Blixen) DRSS Merkel 470 NE | |||
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Moderator |
this is in good humor, but I wish to point out that nitpicking words often leads to spralling discussions and/or arguments, just because people generally always act in the manner they believe correct, and frequently don't like to be corrected. So, since the words toxic, irratant, Allergen and sensitizer can be used more or less interchangablely in this context. and, frankly, it's terms of jargon, with the person's assumptions of the genre leading to their words choice.
However, wood "called" Toxic, with irritants or sensitizers. here's a general link, but look up wood and toxic on google http://www.mimf.com/archives/toxic.htm
the reaction one is concerned with, of course, is the "hyper sensitivity reaction", which can only grow over time, and leads to increasing reactions by the body... BUT, unlike a cold, an upper resp infection, or hayfever, the hyper sensitive reaction leads to worse and worse immune system reactions, up to the point of alergic shock... or what happens when persons have the so called "bee sting" alergies... this alergic reaction can become so strong it leads to death for the sufferer... but it's still a toxin, an irritant, a sensitizer, and an alergen. ... weird huh? jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Not as weird as you going ballistic a week or so ago about the "Jorgon" of sideswing safeties. You went ape shit on that thread about being absolutely precise in what you called it, now you are saying terminology doesn't matter, call it whatever the hell you want? Which is it? Hell, it don't matter anyway, it's just a hunting rifle. | |||
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yes, Poleax, thank you for reinforcing that this is a forum on gunsmithing, and not wood allergins. in fact, your entire reply reinforces that posters truely should keep to gun smithing. So, until we have a toxic reaction forum, why don't we agree that gunsmithing terms actually are germaine to the forum at hand. thanks jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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So in keeping with only posting on gunsmithing issues and germane to the forum at hand, will you refrain from posting??? | |||
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I'm so happy to see your reply about walnut dust as it applies to gunsmithing and the health effects it can cause. I can only say this is in tune with your other posts on AR and may you enjoy a very happy new year. 1 19 19 8 15 12 5 | |||
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