Teflon if it is done right by a competent smith is one tough, long lasting, leave it in the rain if you want to finish! Wish all mine had it! GHD

Brent--

You have the general idea but it's not "per-zactly" right. Southern gunsmithing term.

Lets start with chemistry--

The part of steel that rust is iron. Iron has an affinity to oxygen and when it reacts with oxygen it "oxidizes" to one extent or another.......much like a flame oxidizes a piece of wood.......the oxygen acts as a catalyst that binds with it and changes the chemical composition of the iron into another form......like heat changes wood to charcoal.

The gun is polished, completely degreased and wiped with a very thin coat of chemicals that speed up and "guide" the iron to rust in a certain, consistent, and predictable way.

The steel parts take on a dusty look of colors from yellow to dark green, depending on the chemicals used and what metallic salts were used as a catalyst. This discoloration is "ferrous oxide". Otherwise known as red rust.

After the whole part is more or less evenly covered with this rust the parts are boiled in very clean water. VERY clean water. This water chemically changes the red rust into "ferr ic oxide", or "black rust".

This black rust has two components. One is a dusty residue on the steel. The other is the steel itself. It's has a dark stain that has become a part of the steel.......NOT a coating. The removal of the dusty residue is called "carding".

The dark steel that's left after the first coat, when looked at under a microscope looks like black spider webs or lace, spread across the surface.

The next coat fills in some of the holes and creates more webs and strings of black oxidized steel. It doesn't darken what’s already there.

THe next coat darkens the surface even more because less of the shiny portion of the metal is showing. There's more black lace.

When finished, the surface looks a lot like a clinker, if magnified several hundred times. The surface appears to be blasted away by fire and partially melted on the high places. It's NOT sharply cratered like a bead blasted part.

The parts of the steel that CAN rust has already rusted, boiled dark, and then the leftovers carded away. What's left has no components that CAN rust.

The danger is that somebody will quit the rusting coats too soon and leave places that aren't quite completely rusted yet for new rust to get a foot-hold in and run wild.

The finishing steps of rust blueing is a final rust, boil and light card while washing with hot water out side in the sun so you can see all the mistakes, ......... then the part is warmed with a torch to drive off any water then oiled with a "hard" oil.

Hard oil is gun oil with a varnish component. Rust Pruf and CleanZoil are the two American ones I know of. Almost all the old English and Continental oils are "hard". This oil fills the micro-pits in the steel and forms a very moisture resistant layer that dries clear to slightly straw colored on the metal. The varnish is slightly gummy but too hard for lint to stick to.

The oil is reapplied several times and then allowed to dry for a month or more. Then warm and pastewax the parts with a carnuba-based floor wax.

The resulting surface is a very smooth matte finish with tiny sparkles of rainbow colors in the sun. The feel of the surface is so smooth it feels soft. Water beads up and runs off of it. It will abrade off.......my 27 year old Whelen's floorplate is worn nearly silver in places and the sharp edge around the muzzle is bright, but I've never had it rust too much to wipe off.

Rust blue is expensive to do because there's always a risk of screwing it up in the first or last 5 minutes. That means a VERY expensive hand polish must be redone and then the blue done again.

Once done, it's good for a LONG, LONG time.

[ 02-28-2003, 04:51: Message edited by: JBelk ]

Jack - How expensive is "very expensive"? What is the going rate to rust blue a rifle? Jeff

Thanks for the very detailed explanation Jack.

That rifle is almost to nice to take into the field where I hunt.

I know a guy that does coatings down the road from me, he is getting set up to do rust bluing right now. I hesitate to be a test victim, although the rainbow affect you refer to, everyone says looks very, very nice and is classic.

I wonder, does it resemble what case hardened guns look like? Any more pics?

[ 02-28-2003, 06:55: Message edited by: Brent Moffitt ]

Thats what I like to see Jack, worn blueing and real leather. It warms my heart

Jack,

That black rust or ferric oxide is also called magnetite (Fe3O4), we called it "good rust" on power plants I worked on -- it requires elevated temperature to form. It does form a hard black surface that will not "rust" further.

I don't think I have ever handled a firearm finished as you describe.

jim

Ok, Jack, I can see rust bluing as being effective at protecting the outside of a chromemoly barrel from rust damage, but what's the best way to protect the bore?

dogcatcher223

quote:

---

How many factory guns come rust blued? My point is that is why stainless was introduced. It is more corrosion resistant.

---

You are only half-right. There is no doubt that stainless is more corrosion resistant than rust blue. But if the factories rust blued their guns they would cost as much as JBelk's and Chic Worthing's.
Can you imagine how much custom work it would take (money) to straighten out a factory rifle after the cost reductions were implemented to offset the rust blue costs. The custom gunsmith trade would be overwhelmed with an already too big a problem.
You must understand that you do not rust blue something like any other process. It is very very time consuming (expensive) and very very labor intensive (Expensive). If you don't believe me' watch someone do it. I mean the whole process. Then go home and try and do it your self, you will more than likely not be succesfull.
And one last thing, I can�t see a technology that can do to rust blue what CNC has done to finished gun parts. Rust bluing small parts like 3 position safety levers and bolt stop releases take a certain fill and touch and EYE that machines do not have.

bluetick--

Good post. Rust blue is more art than science the way it's done now, but prior to WW-II many factory guns were rust blued. Only the "best" guns were sealed as I described. Over the last hundred years it's plain to see which is which.

Some of the best factory guns made in the US were rust blued and we can see them now. The early Remington guns were all "express" blued. It's a very fast rust process that has proven not as tough if not sealed....and none were. Up until the mid 50s Remington Model 721 and 722, 870, 760 and 740s were express blued but unsealed.

Swiss Lugers were sealed after rusting with the classic Angiers C-13 formula.

Griffin and Howe, Hoffman, Segley, and all the English game guns were rust blued and sealed. Some were VERY good.

All the Krags and most 03s had at least the barrels rust blued and treated with hot wax.

I have some pretty good pictures of good and bad and French Gray and Color casing, etc. I'll start another thread for pictures.

Thanks Jack!

JBelk,

Where the heck do you find that oil? I've done several web searches and couldn't find either.

-Mike

Hard Chrome from Accurate Weaponry and Plating gets my vote. http://www.apwcogan.com/Refinishing.htm

Plated Finishes

Plated finishes of any kind offer the greatest wear resistance and a very high degree of corrosion resistance.
Most plated finishes have hardness ratings greater than the base metal they are applied to. And offer superb corrosion
resistance in the 100 salt test level.
Personally, after 26 years of applying and testing these finishes, Hard Chrome offers the best all-around properties of
any finish available for firearms that exists today. If there is something out there I don't know about please let me
know. (sic) Sooner or later someone will come out with a compound containing corn flakes and ground moon rock
dusted, sprayed superheated in an reactor and applied by gnomes who vaporize after your weapon is finished and
make claims that sliced bread has been replaced...

Plated Finishes- Points of Light
Hard Chrome, when applied to a steel, or stainless steel surface that has been properly prepared, will not chip or peel.
The hardness rating averages 65 R.C., or about 1000 on the Vickers scale.
Its friction co-efficient is .1 ( point one) when working with all surfaces chromed. Polishing the surface decreases the
friction co-efficient even further.
Salt spray ratings average around 100 plus hours.
Matte hard Chrome Finishes are a light grey and completely non-reflective.
Brushed Hard Chrome Finishes are the easiest to clean and have a very low reflectivity.
Note: I personally hunt with Hard Chromed firearms with both Matte and Brushed finishes, or combinations of them and
I cannot document one instance where the finish has spooked the game I was hunting.

I have had deer come to within ten feet of my position on the ground with a Matte Chrome firearm in my hands. I wear
full camo's and they have not even noticed as long as I am downwind. Talk about a rush.

Most areas of the country I hunt, the fall-winter weather conditions give the landscape a "grey" look. In snow, this
Brushed Matte combo finish is like camo. If you have to leave your rifle to bring out your game, you better tie
surveyors tape to your Matte Hard Chromed firearm especially if it has a black, or camo stock. That's if if you expect
to find it when you go back to get it.

Plating STAINLESS Firearms.
The most common question is: "Why would you want to Chrome Plate your STAINLESS firearm"?

Point One: The stainless alloys they manufacture firearms from have a high level of Chrome-Moly Steel in them. These
are used so that they can be adequately hardened after machining. If you don�t believe me, put a magnet near your
firearm, it will jump on it.

While gun stainless is far more corrosion resistant than any Blue Steel Chrome-Moly firearm construction, it is not as
corrosion resistant as the stainless used in hardware or, surgical instruments.

Also, when stainless firearms rust, they usually pit deeply where the Chrome Moly part of the alloy is concentrated.
Point Two: All stainless alloys have an inherent tendency to gall or bind when working surfaces are in the same alloy
family. Gun manufacturers try to limit this problem by varying the hardness of the parts that work against each other
and increasing the tolerances between the parts. For the most part, they are successful using these methods.
However, you pay a price in accuracy potential and having a tight, smoothly functioning firearm with these methods.

Note: S&W, until recently, hard chromed all their hammers and triggers on their revolvers and auto loaders because of
an adverse safety problem encountered with their original production of firearms when these parts were all un-plated
stainless steel.
Point Three: Many firearm owners think stainless guns are harder then Blue Steel firearms. This may be true of certain
moving parts due to the mentioned galling problems, but, is not true of the overall construction of the firearm.
Consequently, stainless firearms will scuff, or scratch at about the same level as Blued firearms. Any flaws on a
stainless firearm are much more noticeable than on Black Finished firearms.

Summary of Hard Chrome

So what does chrome do to help these inherent stainless faults.

It imparts to the surface an additional coating that has to be attacked and penetrated before it can attack the base
metal.
Due to the type of bonding chrome plating has with a base metal the overall corrosion resistance increases more than
the rating for each metal. This may be the best combination of the two elements involved when corrosion resistance is
a major concern.
Hard chrome with its inherently low friction co-efficiency allows for smoother operation of the matted stainless parts
with tighter tolerances and decreases the possibility of galling. You now can have a tighter, smoother, more
dependable operating firearm. Third, due to the hardness of chrome, wear and tear is less noticeable and takes longer
to happen. You have a better looking firearm with less maintenance.

z1r,

You can find Clenzoil here.

http://www.clenzoil.com/

[ 03-01-2003, 04:34: Message edited by: DavidReed ]

David,

Thanks so much!

It would have helped if I had spelled it right.

z1r---

I have a sneaking hunch you can duplicate CleanZoil by putting an ounce of Spar varnish in 8 ounces of turpentine.

Check with Staffords in Thomasville Ga or Cape Outfitters in Cape Giarda whatever, MO for Young's 303 or any of the English "name" oils. They smell so much better than Cleanzoil that they're certainly worth the money.

I think the Rangoon-type oil are a combination of virgin's grease and sardine oil with a hint of marsh gas. It's about as primal as it gets when you love fine guns. It's the smell that comes wafting out of old oak and leather and fine felt motor coach cases with Purdys nested inside.

'scuse me, I gotta go change shorts.

I just had my .416 Taylor done in Robar's Rogaurd with NP3 on the internals and all I can say is it's incredible. Especialy for here in SE, a lot of salt spray and rain, Would like to have it on all my guns, a little pricey but definetly worth it.