I've got to plead ignorance here. Although I use the CZ-550 quite often for a basis to build projects I really have no idea what Mauser actions make the best starting point to do a build.

I'm really inspired by the finished products I see here and would like to give one or two a try as a platform for a project but have no idea what to look for or which versions of the mauser are most desirable.

If you would please let me know what you think make the best starting point for both smaller cartridges and for larger cartridges. Would you limit the actions to the lower pressure rounds or can they take the pressure from higher pressure modern cartridges?

Lastly, not asking you to give away the family secret but if you don't mind if you would point me in the right direction to find a few actions that would make a good basis for a rifle build I would greatly appreciate it.

John

I'm no expert but some good donor actions are,,,

More common actions
1909 Argintine and VZ-24. The 1909 being my favorite.

Harder to find but more desirable
G33/40 and 1935 Chilean. Both are more rare and usually expensive. The G33/40 because it's a small ring with cuts below the stock line that make it lighter. The Chilean because it's built and finished extremely well. You can even see the sharper lines of a Chilean in pictures posted on the net.

For the shorter cartriges like the 7X57 and .257 Roberts.
1910 and 1936 Mexicans get the my vote.

Of coarse there are a lot more, but it's a good starting point. While looking for a good donor action pay careful attetion to pits above and below the stock line. Also look for pits on the bolt face. A lot of these old war horse's shot corrosive ammo and that will ruin the bolt face.

Terry

This one might be a good starting point
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?item=34806684
The seller is starting to get motivated. The work looks 1st rate. The only problem with it is, being a single square bridge, it rules out a lot gunsmiths that could actually scope this rifle.

John,
(forgot to say i aint no mauser expert) the ones i like, in preference
1936 mexicacn with cocking piece bolt (98 small ring)
1910 mexican (98 small ring)
1909 argentine (the 91 is not junk, but not desirable)
sears/jc penny/commerical FN

(forgot year) brazialian 98
vz 24

then all the rest!!

first mausers? I would do a 1936 in a 7x57 ackley and a large ring in 338 or 376 steyr


The small ring is basically the same external footprint as the swede96, and the large ring is a larger thread shank , longer action (like 1/8) and larger front ring.

a small ring 98, with the small barreljounrel is a .98" major, 12 pitch, the large ring, iirc, is 1.1 and 12 pitch.

jeffe

I wonder why nobody have recommended the original Oberndorf mauser action.? I have them on my guns, and they still work!. Actions made by DWM(argentino 1909)would be my second choice and then the FN solid wall!.

Hey Jeffe, I'm no expert either, but, are you sure about that 11 pitch on small ring mausers. I thought they were all 12 pitch. 98 small and large and 93,94,95,96 all 12 pitch. I don't know. Maybe you figured out something that I wasn't aware of. Rojelio

Rojelio,
I sure thought i was right, but i checked some facts.. they are all 12..
.980 and 1.1

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=643
jeffe

Thanks for the help. ANy sugestions for large ring mausers.
What is the opinion on the charles daly mausers?

John

I know there are several negative opinions around about the Daly. I have several and a larger number of the MKX. They make a very servicable rifle but, they will never carry the mystic of a nice conversion. For me I would prefer to spend the $$ saved on the wood.

Why is the run of the mill German k98 military action not desireable?

Is this what I should be looking for. Seems like a decient deal to me but than again I know very little about the various mauser models.

John

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976580916.htm

fritz thats a Yugo mauser, I think those are intermediate length. Look for a VZ24

Every one has there own opinions on which maker is best ,my advice would be to look for a NON wartime made action, the wartime actions were made to a lower standard as far as tolerances and exterier finish . late 1930s and contract actions are probably the pick of the bunch.

Of the military actions, I like pre-war South American contract Mausers made by Mauser Werke, DWM & FN. Small ring Mausers like the Brno G33-40s and intermediate length small ring Mexicans are desirable for light weight rifles.
IMO, the best 98 Mausers of all are the post-war commercial FN Deluxe/Supreme, Brno 21/22 & Brno ZG-47. FNs are relatively common and inexpensive, Brnos aren't. Pre-war Oberndorfs are good quality too, highly collectible and expensive because they are the originals and still set the standard for how a sporting rifle should look and function.
There are other good quality military and commercial 98s too. As mentioned above, wartime Mausers are sometimes rough.
I'd get books by Ludwig Olsen, Frank de Haas, Jon Speed, Ken Warner, etc. and study up.

The 33/40 is often mentioned as being highly desirable but what about the CZECH 1933 short rifle which the 33/40 was based on.
What do peolpe think of it?

Incidentaly a Model 33/40 mountain troup rifle sold here a year or so ago for US$70. The salesman in the sports shop did not know what it was.

Gentlemen,

Below is cut&paste from an earlier post on book research I did for Blackhawk reference a military mauser build. I think this info has held the test of time. I hope it may be of some use.

Gary

Blackhawk,

The book is "Bolt Action Rifles - The definitive work covering every major design since the Mauser of 1871" co -authored by Frank de Haas and Dr. Wayne van Zwoll. They appear to had/have impeccable resumes.

STEEL & HEAT-TREATMENT (Military Mauser):
The M98 Mauser obtains its strength from its design rather than by the use of specially formulated or alloyed steels, or by some special heat-treatment.
M98 receivers were made of tough quality low-carbon steel. After machining, the only heat-treatment the receiver got was carburizing (case-hardening). This resulted in a hard outside surface to resist wear and rust, but left the core relatively soft for strength.
Pre-WWI era, especially small ring type, tend to be somewhat softer then these manufactured in the 1920s, 30s and early 40s. Receivers made late in WWII period or those dated "44" and "45", are either very soft or hard, mostly the latter. The normal range of hardness for a good reciever seems to be about 35C Rockwell.
There is no evidence to indicate that any re-heat-treatment of a soft M98 receiver will improve it or make it stronger. It is inadvisable, therefore, to have this done.
Buy action, or complete rifle from a reputable dealer. Avoids those dated before 1920 and those dated after 1943. Pick one that was made by one of the better plants. Examples are 1930s Mauser, DWM, FN or BRNO(VZ-24). There is no point in having such receiver tested for hardness.
The only major weak point in the M98 military action is the thumb notch in the left receiver side rail.

Blackhawk, I hope this info is helpful to you or anyone interested in a military mauser build.

Gary

Oldun:
They are kinda hard to find aren't they?

JOHN
give stuart satterlee a ring in south dakota he is making me a M 98 from scratch ,the action is not carburized so this action can take the high pressure rounds like the ultra mags stw s and 338 lapua cartriges due to the hardening process
stuarts number is 605 584 2189
ask him to e mail you a photo of my action which he is nearly finished ...apparentley fred wells has played with that action and he was very impressed with it
your other option is to get an action fron GODFRIED PRECHTAL ...his action are top notch and his prices are not to bad either ...he supplies those actions to JOHANNSEN
REGARDS DANIEL

Fritz

David Miller used to use 1909 Argentine Actions for his very high dollar custom rigs. He used them for .338 Win Mags, and built the first of the Big five Series for SCI on a 1909 Argentine. It was chambered in .458 Win Mag (the elephant rifle) and was extensively engraved by the now deceased Lynton McKenzie.

Whether Mr. Miller rehardened those actions or not would be a question you should ask him. I just mention it to point out that if 1909 Argentines were good enough for David Miller to use for his very expensive custom rifles, then you might want to give them consideration for your custom projects.

Another "expert" that you might want to call for an opinion (and possibly to do some work for you) would be Thomas Burgess. Mr. Burgess has probably worked on and barreled more mauser actions that any active gunmaker now working. He can tell you anything you need or want to know about mauser 98 actions. He goes by the name System98 on this forum. He did quite a bit of work for Jack and Eleanor O'Connor back in the day, and Jack sung high praises for Mr. Burgess's work.

In addition, Mr. Burgess does absolutely beautiful work on CZ550s and other BRNO type actions. His Bolt handle work on those actions is absolutly perfect, and he can do safety conversions and trigger conversions on those actions as well. And his scope mount rings are out of this world. I have examined them in hand (as well as some of his other work) and I think they are worth every penny for the amount of engineering and work that go into them.

So, if you want to have an expert opinion on mauser actions, either Mr. Miller or Mr. Burgess might be the one you want to call.

Thanks guys, I’ve got a few Mauser books on order from Brownells and will do some reading but you have really helped me get a good start. I appreciate the contact and the sources as well as the opinions on the best actions to look for.

Please continue to add to the information here as I'm sure I'm not the only Mauser ignorant gun nut around here.

John

On another note I wonder if it would be useful to make a list of companies and their contact info for all the various gunsmithing products and services and keep it at the top of the page for all to use. If people think it's a good idea I would volunteer to create it and maintain it as we go forward. Just an idea and I have a bunch some good others not. Let me know what you think.

tomk,
Hi,
There are a few 1933 short rifles floating around here in New Zealand.
As far as I can tell, from casual observation, the 1933 and the 33/40 actions are pretty much the same.
I think I'll grab the next one that comes my way.

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:
As far as I can tell, from casual observation, the 1933 and the 33/40 actions are pretty much the same.

The only difference is that the Nazi's were running the show when the G.33/40's were made. I believe the 1933's are even more scarce.

quote:

Originally posted by fritz454:

What is the opinion on the charles daly mausers?

John

Not worth putting labor into. Kind of like building a Chevy Chevette into a hot rod.

I can't quote a source but was thinking it was something like 20,000 VZ33 and 120,000 G33/40s.

Wouldn't mind picking a couple up