In the thread here on the 30-03, someone has included a picture of what are probably 30-03 rounds, and two of those look like they could be steel instead of brass cases.

So, my questions:

(1) Have you ever seen steel-cased ammo?

(2) Did the US government -- or any other -- ever make steel-cased small arms ammo?

(3) Are any steel-cased, centerfire, small arms ammo or unloaded cases currently being made by anyone in the world?

yes, yes, and tons of it. for e.g. wolf ammo today is - at least what i've seen, may not all be - lacquered steel cases. is why older ones laying around ranges are rusted.

le270

The cases in the photo are tinned brass. The US Military used tinned brass beginning in 1888 and continued using it until replaced by un-tinned cases in the early 1900s. Therefore you will find 30-40, 03, and 06 cases in both tinned and un-tinned versions. Steel cases first appeared in large scale production during WWII.

Ray

quote:

Originally posted by willmckee:
yes, yes, and tons of it. ... is why older ones laying around ranges are rusted.

I hadn't thought of that. I see a lot of old rusted cases on the ground at the range where I shoot. I didn't think enough about this to draw the obvious conclusion that these were steel, not brass, cases.

lots of eastern european stuff is steel

jeffe

Czech military is mostly steel cased too..

I have some U.S. military ball .45 ACP from WW II (brought home by my father) that is steel cased. Test fired a couple of rounds about 10 years ago and it functioned perfectly.

Stonecreek

Be careful of that steel cased 45ACP. It may work OK but every once in a while you will get an empty that clings to the chamber walls and the extractor will break off in trying to extract it. The steel stuff was made for SMG use which operate like a blowback system and the extractor is there only as a backup.

The modern steel cased stuff has an exterior coating that aids in extraction and stops rusting.

Ray

Pretty sure the England and Germany used some steel casings during supply problem periods during WWII also.

And wasn't the Russian and Chinese supply of ammo steel cases for years?

when i was in high school a buddy had an older brother in the national guard who "obtained" an entire box of the steel case 45's. i bought them and shot them as factory 45's were hard to come by on a sack boys salary (abt $1.75/hr then). i knew was supposed to be hard on extractors but i've since learned most problems were due to rusted cases or pitted chambers or both. i ran the whole box thru a combat commander and worked fine. but i was not hiding in a mudhole in combat either. the lacquered cases i gather avoid similar extraction problems quite well. i still don't like the stuff tho.

ALL the Russian (Wolf Brand) and a lot of the Chinese sstuff is loaded in lacquered steel cases-as was U.S. WWII .45 ACP Ball ammo......

During the Second World War; An Evansville, Indiana Plant made .45 ACP and .30 Carbine with steel cases. I think it was an expermental program.

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
Stonecreek

Be careful of that steel cased 45ACP. It may work OK but every once in a while you will get an empty that clings to the chamber walls and the extractor will break off in trying to extract it.
Ray

I'll be sure to take that into account the next time I decide to fire some in my S & W model 25 !

Actually, since my dad was discharged January 1, 1946 and the 60th anniversary of that date is coming up, maybe I'll fire a round in memorium on New Year's Day and one every following decade, just to see how the old ammo holds up.

I picked up 300 steel cases in the range .They are Wolff, .40 S&W pistol caliber.
I would like to know if it is possible to reload them, same as brass cases. and tips if there is any.

Thanks for your help

quote:

Originally posted by DRS:
During the Second World War; An Evansville, Indiana Plant made .45 ACP and .30 Carbine with steel cases. I think it was an expermental program.

Umm, the Evansville Chrysler plant (and there Sunbeam plant also on the same property) made so much 45ACP ball ammo (several million rounds, all of it steel cased) that the army told them to stop production a full year before the war ended. The army realizied tha the actualy had more 45ACP ammo than they would be able to use.
That stuff is still available in CASE lots, so you know that they made a lot more than "experamental" quanties.

quote:

Umm, the Evansville Chrysler plant (and there Sunbeam plant also on the same property) made so much 45ACP ball ammo (several million rounds, all of it steel cased) that the army told them to stop production

You're right about that! Actually the number should be BILLIONS, not millions. I think the Sunbeam Refigerator plant made only cases, which were loaded by the Chrysler plant.

Ray

quote:

Originally posted by BAShooter:
I picked up 300 steel cases in the range .They are Wolff, .40 S&W pistol caliber.
I would like to know if it is possible to reload them, same as brass cases. and tips if there is any.

Thanks for your help

Pretty sure you cant. It would be heck on your dies too.

I have tons of steel case Wolf and Barnaul in 7.62x39

Shoot it and leave it laying. I've never shot steel case pistol ammo but I wouldnt hesitate to in a comm-bloc gun.

My rule of thumb is Western brass case ammo in Western guns, comm-bloc ammo in comm-bloc guns.

quote:

Originally posted by BAShooter:
I picked up 300 steel cases in the range .They are Wolff, .40 S&W pistol caliber.
I would like to know if it is possible to reload them, same as brass cases. and tips if there is any.

I do not know about your steel pistol cases...for instance I have no idea if, and how, the primers may be crimped in place. Nor do I know what size or type of primers are appropriate for them. (They may not be standard Large Pistol primers, for all I know.)

I do know, however, that I have been occasionally reloading standard German WWII era steel berdan-primed cases for the 6.5x53-R Mannlicher for over 40 years. I use my standard RCBS dies, a Lachmiller de-capper, and Norma berdan primers of which I bought a large number in the mid 1960's.

So far I do not seem to have injured either my dies or my rifles (2 M95 Dutch Hembrug carbines and a Ruger No. 1).

Just my feeling, but starting to substitute steel cases in reloading rifles is like replacing a curcuit fuse with a heavy wire.That brass has saved a lot of adventurous reloaders from serious injury.It kind of stops them from going where no man,( except Clark) has gone before.roger

Some years ago some company produced steel case and had brass heads that screwed into them, The claimed pressures of 180,000 PSI were safe...I loaded up a few of them and sizzled a 180 gr. 30-06 at a chronographed 3491 FPS, and had no extraction problems, no pressure signs at all, in fact plumb mild it seemed..I still have a box of 5 (thats the way they came)some where around here...They were damned expensive but guarenteed for life...I found them interresting but had no real need for them...

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Just my feeling, but starting to substitute steel cases in reloading rifles is like replacing a curcuit fuse with a heavy wire.That brass has saved a lot of adventurous reloaders from serious injury.roger

There's a lot of merit to that statement.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Some years ago some company produced steel case and had brass heads that screwed into them, The claimed pressures of 180,000 PSI were safe...I loaded up a few of them and sizzled a 180 gr. 30-06 at a chronographed 3491 FPS, and had no extraction problems, no pressure signs at all, in fact plumb mild it seemed..I still have a box of 5 (thats the way they came)some where around here...They were damned expensive but guarenteed for life...I found them interresting but had no real need for them...

Ray

In my collection I have 4 or 5 such cases but they are brass body with a steel head. Both 06 and belted Mag sizes. After WWII a few wildcatters made such 06 cases using the steel GI surplus cases and a conventional brass body. Could the ones you have be made by a guy named O'Conner? Interested in selling or trading?

Ray

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Some years ago some company produced steel case and had brass heads that screwed into them, The claimed pressures of 180,000 PSI were safe...I loaded up a few of them and sizzled a 180 gr. 30-06 at a chronographed 3491 FPS, and had no extraction problems, no pressure signs at all, in fact plumb mild it seemed..I still have a box of 5 (thats the way they came)some where around here...They were damned expensive but guarenteed for life...I found them interresting but had no real need for them...

I remember seeing ads for them in Handloader.

I always wanted to try them but never had the
money when I was thinking about them and
never thought about them when I had the money.

AD

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
I do not know about your steel pistol cases...for instance I have no idea if, and how, the primers may be crimped in place. Nor do I know what size or type of primers are appropriate for them. (They may not be standard Large Pistol primers, for all I know.)

I do know, however, that I have been occasionally reloading standard German WWII era steel berdan-primed cases for the 6.5x53-R Mannlicher for over 40 years. I use my standard RCBS dies, a Lachmiller de-capper, and Norma berdan primers of which I bought a large number in the mid 1960's.

So far I do not seem to have injured either my dies or my rifles (2 M95 Dutch Hembrug carbines and a Ruger No. 1).

I did something similar some years back with some laquered steel 7.62x39 cases, just because I could. Having dug out the berdan primer with a pick made from a hardened nail gun nail, I replaced the primers with some berdan ones of RWS manufacture. They seated OK with a Lee hand tool in LR size. Resizing wasn't a problem with enough lube but case neck tension was lacking. In the end, I took the neck expander button out & this seemed to work OK then, They functioned as well as factory rounds in the little Norinco carbine I had then. I was looking for a way to hand load rounds that I would want to pick up the brass in the heat of the moment.
Sold the Norinco soon after so that was the end of that. I've got some steel 308 cases though.
Steve.

The proper etiquette at the shooting range is to pick up after yourself. The steel cases should go in the trash barrels that should be there, along with any target debris left on the range On ranges that have concrete around the shooting table areas steel casings laying about are like ball bearings and dangerous. Don't give the anti-gunners more ammo then they already have.

DON'T THROW STEEL CASES IN THE TRASH!!!!
Or any other cases for that matter. With the price of scrap metal these days WTF!! On ranges that allow "brass" scavenging I'll pick up every case I can find. I don't even look for reloaders. I take the cases and sell at commercial recyclers. Sweeping up .22 cases can often pay for a couple days of shooting most any caliber--2,4,8 bores excluded