No way of knowing what caused the "pressure excursion". However, both an AI and a regular version. And the AI might be a "tight-neck" version?

Pinched neck, anyone? FWIW, Dutch.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
Rick, I'd venture a guess more guns are blown up every year by inserting the wrong ammo than reloads.

I think if you understood the practice a little better, you wouldn't be as shy about it. It's a very safe hobby as long as you follow the rules. Of coarse there are alway's those who will try to make a "magnum" out of everything, but most sane people never have any trouble with it.

Terry

I understand the process completely...just like I understand the process of heart surgery...and I don’t care to partake in that activity either!

Unfortunately, as allot of posts on this forum will prove out, there are an enormous amount of people reloading ammunition that could hardly be classified as “sane.â€

I don't blame you a bit for deciding one way or the other. But being a location for the more dedicated (as in "over-the-top" ?) gun nuts we probably hear 2 or 3 hundred times the number of problems here on the forum than happen on average.

To me its like learning to drive, especially for us dudes. You start out positive that you were born a Mario Andretti and a couple of near misses (hopefully) or accidents(hope not) later you begin to realize your limitations. Like reloading, some start to drive responsibly from day one and some push the boundaries from day one. Others do their best and still get caught up in a problem they didn't or couldn't foresee simply from a lack of life experience.

You do drive, don'cha rick 0311? That'll kill you way sooner than handloading.

It is interesting that when someone states that they use factory ammo, they are branded as being unsafe in the woods, not caring about accurace or reliablility and inexperienced. I think we also can sort out some people who glorify their reloading with their comments. I have some hunting friends who shoot their guns twice a year. Once to check or adjust the sights on their rifles and next to shoot their deer. They know how to hunt and how to shoot.

You can tweek your accuracy to the best by reloading. Often it is not much better than factory but you can suit the load to your gun. Does the difference help in the real world? It is very insignificant and far less than the difference between your groups off the bench. Accuracy is made up of two things. The first is the combination of the ammo and the rifle. That has an individual accuracy component. A good bench rest shooter with controlled breathing can shoot off a bench and approach that accuracy potential. The second component is the human element. The two of them do not add arithmetically. The total accuracy is the square root of the sum of the squares of the components. If you have a gun/ammo component that has 1/2" accuracy and a factory load that is 1" accuracy, you will not see a 1/2" inch difference between groups fired in field (standing, sitting etc) shooting conditions. The difference between the two will shrink considerably.

I have also found that a large majority of reloaders who hunt, practice their shooting from a bench. Once you get your load developed it is time to see what you can do and not the gun.

I suspect given Rick's occupation, and the danger he puts himself in and the safety network he surrounds himself with, he has made an informed decision for himself. He hasn't advocated it for all of us, just stated his opinion.

“You do drive, don'cha rick 0311? That'll kill you way sooner than handloading. [/QUOTE]

Yeah I do...and probably far better than most out there since I’ve been a professional stunt man for over 30 years who gets in car wrecks on purpose, not accidentally due to trying to drive when I didn’t know how to!

Obviously, none of these guys blowing up their rifles with hot hand loads or wrong ammunition did it on purpose...so that leaves me with the thought that perhaps they don’t know what they are doing and shouldn’t be handling firearms and reloading presses without lots of “adult-supervision.â€

I don't think a tight neck would casue the pressure needed to shear a locking lug. The bore dia was correct (supposedly) in which case, even a very tight crimp would only result in a blown primer and maybe a locked bolt with a correct powder being used. If the neck was tight enough that necks would have be turned to get them in the chamber, the unturned brass would not even begin to chamber. My 308win with a .336"NK will NOT allow any brass to enter that has not been turned.

My bet is FAST powder, incorrectly applied. It takes a huge and quick pressure curve to shear a lug,..and I still have questions about the shearing of the lugs. I am betting the action was somehow not done right. Research "shear strength" and see what I mean,..it usually takes a running start to shear a peice of metal that large.

one other thing is,..that if he decided to lapp his own lugs and removed too much material, he could have severely weakened them, especially if they had been lapped for a few other projects prior to the current one.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
“You do drive, don'cha rick 0311? That'll kill you way sooner than handloading.

Yeah I do...and probably far better than most out there since I’ve been a professional stunt man for over 30 years who gets in car wrecks on purpose, not accidentally due to trying to drive when I didn’t know how to!


Obviously, none of these guys blowing up their rifles with hot hand loads or wrong ammunition did it on purpose...so that leaves me with the thought that perhaps they don’t know what they are doing and shouldn’t be handling firearms and reloading presses without lots of “adult-supervision.â€

Well, tell us about the first three years, age 16 to 19. I bet they were fun! Obviously you're a risk-taker that weighs your odds and doesn't push them where it doesn't make a buck or sense to you. Not a bad philosophy

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
“You do drive, don'cha rick 0311? That'll kill you way sooner than handloading.

Yeah I do...and probably far better than most out there since I’ve been a professional stunt man for over 30 years who gets in car wrecks on purpose, not accidentally due to trying to drive when I didn’t know how to!


Obviously, none of these guys blowing up their rifles with hot hand loads or wrong ammunition did it on purpose...so that leaves me with the thought that perhaps they don’t know what they are doing and shouldn’t be handling firearms and reloading presses without lots of “adult-supervision.â€

Well, tell us about the first three years, age 16 to 19. I bet they were fun! Obviously you're a risk-taker that weighs your odds and doesn't push them where it doesn't make a buck or sense to you. Not a bad philosophy

I joined the service at 17 so didn’t have allot of time to be “crusing around†in cars before that, and I’ve never been in a car wreck other than on a movie set. I made my living taking “calculated†risks...as long as I was the one that got to do the “calculating.†Actually, I’m pretty much of a coward, and that’s why I’m still around after 30 plus years as a stunt man.

I’m not really against reloading...I used to reload for my handguns years ago...but I just get a kick out of all the people that are so worried about Remington bolts falling off, or low numbered 1903’s being unsafe, or Winchester 70’s not venting gas properly, etc, etc, etc...who then go out with their home-brewed hot loads and blow themselves and their rifles up.

As a wise man once told me: A “little bit†of knowledge can be very dangerous sometimes!

It is my understanding from destructive tests conducted here at the Trinidad State gunsmithing school that the shear planes on a locking lug don't run longitudinal to the bolt body but at angles. This causes the the lugs to fold inward when they shear and wedge against the bolt nose thus keeping the bolt from travelling rearward and out the back of the action. The 700 is designed for the bolt recess to expand and seal into the bolt counter bore of the barrel thus keeping the destructive gas pressure from entering the receiver. It is interesting to note in addition to the bolt handle that the bolt nose and lugs on a 700 are also brazed onto the bolt body.

Brian Bingham

quote:

Originally posted by XL Bar:
It is my understanding from destructive tests conducted here at the Trinidad State gunsmithing school that the shear planes on a locking lug don't run longitudinal to the bolt body but at angles. This causes the the lugs to fold inward when they shear and wedge against the bolt nose thus keeping the bolt from travelling rearward and out the back of the action. The 700 is designed for the bolt recess to expand and seal into the bolt counter bore of the barrel thus keeping the destructive gas pressure from entering the receiver. It is interesting to note in addition to the bolt handle that the bolt nose and lugs on a 700 are also brazed onto the bolt body.

Brian Bingham

Brian, as you no doubt know, the nose/lug assembly is one piece brazed to the bolt body. It’s a slip over end to end fit so there is nowhere for that nose to go during firing even if the joint ever came loose. The worst that could happen if the joint broke is that the bolt body and nose would separate when the bolt was brought to the rear. I have never heard of this ever happening.

If you’re gonna have an accident like the one described, an action like the 700 ain’t a bad one to have it happen to.

When a failure of this sort occurs there are always a lot of theories as to why it happens. I can tell you with some degree of authority that when an action fails to this extent it is not be cause of a tight neck, long brass, or a minor powder charge error. It is almost always due to a "wrong powder" situation. Those other causes raise pressures a bit and sometimes quite a bit but they don't destroy actions.
There is always the possibility of a metallurgical flaw but in such cases there is no sign of excess pressure. Some may recall the pictures posted by Jim Dubell a couple years back of the M70 which had lost both lugs. This with a factory load, I believe. Pressure did not appear to be a factor. It was just a bolt failure. Happily, this is extremely rare.
I had a fellow bring in a 99 Savage in 250-3000. It was frozen shut and in fact, he had broken the lever off. When I got the fired case out, the primer pocket measured .375". The chamber had expanded by at least .010". Amazingly, the receiver and breech bolt were un harmed. He opined that he had seat the bullets out further, increasing pressure. Didn't happen. This was a major overload just like the one that wrecked this Remington. Regards, Bill.

Rick

I just did a Google search for ammunition recalls.......got 293,000 hits......make you wonder how safe factory ammo is?????

293,000 hits of what, the same recalls?

I think this back and forth is a waste. Reloading, when done using safe, prudent pactices is just as safe as shooting factory ammo.

Just because someone chooses to use factory ammo or prefers instead to use only handloads doesn't make them a bad person. They are simply excercising their freedom of choice.

I've seen plenty of unsafe shooters using factory ammo. A buddy of mine last year chambered and fired a .30-30 shell in his .308 win. It was a factory load. I don't blame the ammo, I blame the loose nut behind the trigger.

Alberta C:
Did anyone look down the barrel to see if there was any type of obstruction? Any barrel bulges?

Hello the campfire:
Damn this is a LOT of ink (electrons, bits, rams????) spilled over nothing.
I reload.
I have reloaded since I was young, about 100 years ago last week. I have never blown up anything ( not counting things done on purpose) reloading. I check and double check everthing. Before I took up the law, I ran medical research labs so saftey comes naturally to me.
I resent anyone casting asparagrass on Rick for not reloading. It is his decision, and I will stand behind his decision. I don't need to know his reasons. I am of mind of a friend of mine who does not drink beer. He has a reason, but its his business and if he tells, OK but I won't ask.
This is a matter of don't want to, not can't. Get off of your high horse and leave Rick alone. He seems a nice guy for a left coaster.

I would gather the poor kids remaining ammo and pull the bullets, ID the powder , weigh it Look over his scales, and try to send himdown a safer road.
God Bless us all, everyone.
Bill Brower

Judgesharp,

You had me all the way up until the not drinking beer part. I have the draw the line somewhere!

quote:

Originally posted by GonHuntin:
Rick

I just did a Google search for ammunition recalls.......got 293,000 hits......make you wonder how safe factory ammo is?????

I hope, for your sake, that you know more about reloading than you do about search engines.

Not that either one of us would waste the time going to all those hits...but do just a small sampling and you will see that the vast majority of the hits are the exact same info just repeated in another source.

Do a Google search on the “one†recent Hurricane and see how many hits you get.

Unless you do an advanced Boolean (sp?) search to narrow the search down to specifics then your search engine will just go after any use of those words that it can find.

Okay, okay!!!!!

If it will make all of you feel better, I humbly apologize to all of the safe reloaders out there that I may have offended. To all the unsafe ones...let me know if and when you shoot in my area so I will know to stay the hell away on those days.

I also apologize because I happen to make enough money to buy all the Black Hills ammo I want to.

There, I feel so much better now!

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeSharpe:
Hello the campfire:
Damn this is a LOT of ink (electrons, bits, rams????) spilled over nothing.
I reload.
I have reloaded since I was young, about 100 years ago last week. I have never blown up anything ( not counting things done on purpose) reloading. I check and double check everthing. Before I took up the law, I ran medical research labs so saftey comes naturally to me.
I resent anyone casting asparagrass on Rick for not reloading. It is his decision, and I will stand behind his decision. I don't need to know his reasons. I am of mind of a friend of mine who does not drink beer. He has a reason, but its his business and if he tells, OK but I won't ask.
This is a matter of don't want to, not can't. Get off of your high horse and leave Rick alone. He seems a nice guy for a left coaster.

I would gather the poor kids remaining ammo and pull the bullets, ID the powder , weigh it Look over his scales, and try to send himdown a safer road.
God Bless us all, everyone.
Bill Brower

------------------------------

Hi, Judge - I agree regards Rick. He is a fine fellow, judging from my off-forum acquaintance with him. And no dummy, either. I personally reload for over 100 different cartridges, but that's my "thing". Driving fast cars fast is my other thing. Both are my personal choices not dictated by any gov't official, mullah, or "politically correct" social peer pressures and that's they way I like it. Rick probably feels the same.
-------------------

Now, as to the fella who blew up his rifle. He is 35-40 years of age or so...I call him a young lad because, to me, at my own age, he is.

No one from our club will be gathering, or breaking down, or analysing his cartridges except at his specific invitation. As there was no harm done to anyone or anything except his own property, that is the shooter's choice to make, no one else's. We will, of course, offer him such assistance as he might wish (or we think he may need), but that is all it will be, an offer.

He is a new reloader (or was, anyway), but he is not a stupid person. I think he probably just passed the steepest slope of his learning curve. I sincerely doubt he will ever take loading advice again from the two who ill-advised him respecting the loads which destroyed his rifle.

I can tell those who are wondering, that in my opinion this was definitely NOT a sterotypical "pressure excursion" a la Mr. Ackley and reduced loads of slow powders. Also, it was not a tight-necked chamber with an over-sized case neck shoved into it. It could have been simply a faulty case, but at the moment we don't think it was and haven't the firm information to determine that.

At this time it appears most likely that it was the result of inadvertant use of an incorrectly identified powder and/or powder amount. It could also have been some sort of bore obstruction (a cleaning patch, a mud-dauber's nest, who knows what?).

Time may tell, or may not, but I'll bet big money he never has this problem again. His best friend is the owner of a local multi-million dollar company and also an advanced reloader and bench-rest shooter. I know he will be taking the shooter who had the rifle blow-up under his wing and giving him some concentrated instruction.

Thanks, Judge, for sticking up for Rick.

For Judge and Alberta...thanks allot guys but I really didn’t feel as though anyone was “coming after†me for my comments.

I’ve never been known for “pulling punches†in my views or words and I am totally okay with it when people choose to respond in kind. 90% of what I post on this forum will normally have an element of “tongue in cheek†attached to it because so many people on here take everything so seriously at times. The whole idea of our chosen hobby is to have fun with it no matter what equipment or processes you use.

My comment actually started as nothing more than a crack at humor, escalated a bit from there, but not very far, and I certainly didn’t take offense at anything anyone said.

I’ve reloaded ammunition in the past and I have friends that reload thousands of rounds a year, and only one of them has ever had a serious problem associated with his reloads. I still tease them about it all the time anyway...and they tease me about my beat up old Unertl spotting scope and funny looking Freeland bi-pod.

Hell, when I get up in the morning and I’m above ground its a good day...and something as silly as to reload or not to reload certainly isn’t gonna ruin that day for me.

quote:

Originally posted by GonHuntin:
Rick

I just did a Google search for ammunition recalls.......got 293,000 hits......make you wonder how safe factory ammo is?????

GonHuntin,

Not to stir this over stirred pot any more...but for your future reference when doing searches on the internet with more than one word, you have to enclose the words in quotes or your search engine will search and find everything containing each word you have typed in.

If you do a search typing this: “Ammuntion Recallsâ€...you get 148 hits, not 293,000, and even doing this some off topic hits still sneak in there, and you still have the problem of duplicates of the same info.

No offence intended in anything I wrote

Be cool
Terry

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
No offence intended in anything I wrote

Terry

Terry,

If that was for me I can assure you that I took no offense to anything that you or anyone else posted. My skin ain’t quite that thin!

quote:

For starters...I see no practical reason to do so for my shooting purposes. And for another, I have never known anyone who reloads that also has access to the testing equipment to assure that their loads are safe and within the prescribed safe pressure limits.

Well Rick, I'll agree with you that for a lot of people there really isn't a need to reload. Partially due to pressure from handloaders Factory Ammo is far better than ever before using superb bullet and is much more consistant that in the past.
But I love my hobby of reloading and wouldn't want to give it up. And why your statement above may be true in some sense and since we haven't met but I do own equipment to determine if my loads are within proper pressure limits (as do many others), It's call a Chronograph.
If you are loading a given bullet and powder in a given caliber with the same length barrel as the manual and getting the same velocity as the manual you are running within safe tolerance of pressure. Velocity is a pressure sign and is easily measured. Unsafe reloading practices usually begin with reloaders that think they are too smart to accept this fact..................DJ

Rick

Yes, I am aware of how searches work...no need to be condescending, I might even know almost as much about it as you do! (oh, wait a minute, I forgot, you are from California.....you must know more than anyone else) .....My post was not intended to imply that there are 293,000 current recalls......and I don't believe I said anything of that sort! My point was, and is, that even the factories, with all their testing equipment/facilities produce dangerous ammunition on occasion......I have been reloading for at least 35 years......I have yet to blow anything up.......some of us ARE responsible enough to do our own reloading ....nothing wrong with shooting factory ammo, but don't infer or assume that all, or even most reloaders are dangerous.......statistics would easily prove the foolishness of that assumption!


Don't forget, a gazillion reloaders did not blow up their firearms this week, last week, last month, last year....or any other time!

quote:

Originally posted by GonHuntin:
Rick

Yes, I am aware of how searches work...no need to be condescending, I might even know almost as much about it as you do! (oh, wait a minute, I forgot, you are from California.....you must know more than anyone else) .....My post was not intended to imply that there are 293,000 current recalls......and I don't believe I said anything of that sort! My point was, and is, that even the factories, with all their testing equipment/facilities produce dangerous ammunition on occasion......I have been reloading for at least 35 years......I have yet to blow anything up.......some of us ARE responsible enough to do our own reloading ....nothing wrong with shooting factory ammo, but don't infer or assume that all, or even most reloaders are dangerous.......statistics would easily prove the foolishness of that assumption!


Don't forget, a gazillion reloaders did not blow up their firearms this week, last week, last month, last year....or any other time!

Pardner you seem to have some problems that I would rather not deal with!

PS...I’m “from“ Tennessee...I “live“ in California because that’s where my work is.

Rick,

I agree that the 700 is a very well designed action, as far as gas containment goes. I just think it is interesting that everyone rants about the brazed on bolt handles and never mention the brazed on nose/lugs. Even though it is a very clever, economical, and totally safe design. Brazing seems to be a dirty word on this forum but when used properly it is a very strong means of attaching things together.

Brian Bingham

It is interesting that someone who doesn't reload will use this forum to brag about his driving ???.
Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by XL Bar:
Rick,

I agree that the 700 is a very well designed action, as far as gas containment goes. I just think it is interesting that everyone rants about the brazed on bolt handles and never mention the brazed on nose/lugs. Even though it is a very clever, economical, and totally safe design. Brazing seems to be a dirty word on this forum but when used properly it is a very strong means of attaching things together.

Brian Bingham

i totally agree with you. When done properly a brazed joint can oftentimes reach or exceed the strength of the materials being joined.

quote:

Originally posted by hawkins:
It is interesting that someone who doesn't reload will use this forum to brag about his driving ???.
Good luck!

I was asked about my driving sir...by a reloader...and I wasn’t bragging, just stating the facts.

You are up early for a Californian.
Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
...I’m “from“ Tennessee...

Hey Rick, How `bout them UL Cards and UK Cats?!?

I can see where a guy from Tenn would be considered a Stunt Driver.
---

No doubt that excellent Remington design saved that young fellows extrimities as well as his sight. But it does go to show that even the very best designed rifles can come apart when the Pressure gets high enough.

Didn't the recent Sako blow-ups put a good many folks in the hospitals, minus some body parts?

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:

Pardner you seem to have some problems that I would rather not deal with!

Oh, you got me there, that really hurts coming from you!

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
PS...I’m “from“ Tennessee...I “live“ in California because that’s where my work is.

Anyone that has lived and worked in California for the last 30 years (especially with all the liberals in the movie industry!) can't help but have his thinking influenced by all the fruits and nuts in California....or, maybe you have just hit your head too many times in all those car crashes? ...if you have lived there 30 years.....you ARE from California!

Despite the extremely poor information this turkey was getting from his "expert" friends, it sounds as though his reloading practices were more at fault than merely using "4% or 5% too much powder"...

He THOUGHT HE WAS USING VARGET??!! Good Lord!

It would be revealing to know what powder he was really using in those rounds! Sounds like Bullseye! Or perhaps E.C. Blank Fire powder......

quote:

Originally posted by one-holer:
Guys-reloading doesn't scare me in the least. What scares the devil out of me is watching guys who try and shoot factory ammo at the range at 100 yards and then realize it is these exact people who will possibly be in the same woods as I am hunting. Now that is scary.

I worked in a small gun shop one fall. We also sold hunting licenses! TALK ABOUT SCARY!!!

quote:

the bolt nose and lugs on a 700 are also brazed onto the bolt body.

The lugs are NOT brazed onto anything! They are machined as integral parts of the bolt head, which is what is brazed onto the bolt body..... So the bolt head, with the lugs, is a solid piece of steel with the striker hole bored through the center.....

(Don't believe I'd care much for a locking lug that was just held on by a brazed joint.....)

quote:

Originally posted by GonHuntin:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rick 0311:
Oh, you got me there, that really hurts coming from you!
Anyone that has lived and worked in California for the last 30 years (especially with all the liberals in the movie industry!) can't help but have his thinking influenced by all the fruits and nuts in California....or, maybe you have just hit your head too many times in all those car crashes? ...if you have lived there 30 years.....you ARE from California!

Do you think up all these profound comments on your own?

quote:

Reason 1,001 why I don’t reload...and why I don’t use reloaded ammunition.

No doubt that this will go down as another example of Remington’s poor quality and unsafe rifles.

But I’ve gotta ask...did the bolt handle fall off?

Rick 0311

Rick,



You really know how to hurt the Rem haters!

Roger QSL

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:
Despite the extremely poor information this turkey was getting from his "expert" friends, it sounds as though his reloading practices were more at fault than merely using "4% or 5% too much powder"...



El D - I would agree with that assessment. I think it was likely both. Knowing the environment in which he began his reloading, I personally blame some of the people who kept telling him "Reloading is not dangerous...a piece of cake...etc...." For careful, knowledgeable folks who do more reading than BS'ing, and then process what they have heard/read by actually THINKING, reloading is not dangerous, and IS a piece of cake.

But, for those who are mistakenly led to believe that it is like drinking soda through a straw and requires little or no thought, it can be extremely hazardous...as this incident shows.
-------------------



He THOUGHT HE WAS USING VARGET??!! Good Lord!



My thought exactly. But then unfortunately I have met a LOT of shooters at the range and in the field who really, honestly, believe (in their ignorance) that different powder designations are not really much more important than different car brands. To them, 4198, 4064, and 7828 are no more significantly different than whether their car is a Ford, Chevy, or Dodge. If they are really lucky, they get the importance of the different designations pointed out to them vividly with no injury to anyone, as this fellow has hopefully learned. Then they KNOW how important it is to get pulled down powder into a correctly labeled container (in the few instances when they really can know what the powder is).

Other times, they hopefully have learned to just throw it away. The $17 or so for a pound of powder isn't much of a saving if it costs a rifle, a finger, or a life!
---------------------




It would be revealing to know what powder he was really using in those rounds! Sounds like Bullseye! Or perhaps E.C. Blank Fire powder......

Well, it was likely none of those. I don't know very many folk under 65 years of age who now have or ever have had, any E.C. Blank Fire powder. He also doesn't even shoot pistols, let alone load for them, so I seriously doubt he had or has any Bullseye.

But he does dabble in a little benchrest and shoots lots of "squeaks" (a little tiny Oregon ground squirrel, about 1/3 the size of the Oregon "gray-digger" variety) with his buddies each Spring, so it is entirely feasible he got it mixed up with some VV-N130, or AA-2200, or Tu2000, or something of that ilk he may have gotten from some of the folk he hunts/hangs around with.

I am Range Officer tomorrow, so will try to find out more then....

quote:

I see no practical reason to do so for my shooting purposes. And for another, I have never known anyone who reloads that also has access to the testing equipment to assure that their loads are safe and within the prescribed safe pressure limits.

The Only Blown Primers, Split cases, and dud rounds I've ever seen were Factory Loads. Sorry, I have much, much, much more confidence w/ my hand loads.

People who don't trust reloads don't have the adequate knowledge of the proper Hand loading process. If they watched the Factory load ammo and then watched a very experienced hand loader load They'd probably never burn another Factory round .

On another note, I load for a friends 270 Weatherby for $12 a box. He was paying over 40. He says the loads I load for him shoot better and don't show the pressure signs as the factory stuff. I can produce far more accurate loads than factory loads at 1/3 of the cost. If you ever get a chance to disassemble the Factory stuff, you'll see why I don't use it any more, even the premium lines.

Good Luck!

Reloader