curious as to barrel bending for fixed sites
or for any other reason? note this is to have the rifle shoot to the point of aim.

Question:
As a gunsmith, have or do you bend barrels to center the rear site of iron sites after the rifle is built?

Choices:
never ever
once or twice
as needed
common practice

 

quote:

Originally posted by Jameister:
As a gunsmith, have or do you bend barrels to center the rear site of iron sites after the rifle is built?

No, around these parts you wouldn't last very long having to do this to a rifle you installed sights on.

To be honest, I have bent a couple of shotgun barrels to change the POI but never would do it to a rifle. There are other alternatives. I would opt for one of them first before rejecting the job.

So far, I'm the only one to have voted, it seems. If a rifle shoots so far off to left or right that merely adjusting the front and/or rear sights will not compensate (elevation correction can be made with taller or shorter front/rear sights, or by adjusting those sights which permit, so long as the useable range of adjustment is not used-up in doing so), there is something basically wrong with the barrel/action assembly, and bending the barrel is not a proper corrective measure - the true cause needs to be located and corrected.
In fact, the Black Curse of the barrel maker upon any who would do such a thing! You have been warned!
mhb - Mike

oh my.. hell no

I've read of Harry Pope the Grand Master of barrel building for the old single shots doing just that at a match. He stuck the rifle in the crotch of a tree to do it IIRC.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Brooks:
I've read of Harry Pope the Grand Master of barrel building for the old single shots doing just that at a match. He stuck the rifle in the crotch of a tree to do it IIRC.

LOL...
i wonder of that was a SHADE tree??

I have read about this being done on fixed sighted single action pistols. Apparently it works like a charm. Very little bending is needed to move point of impact.

Never heard of doing it on a rifle though.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:



LOL...
i wonder of that was a SHADE tree??

IIRC It was during a match. Haven't you ever heard of Harry Pope?

I've never done it, but I admit to being curious as to how it would work. In the true spirit of advancing science, how about you give it a try and let us know?

I believe it was written up about by Phil Sharpe in "The Rifle in America" The barrel makers do or at least did this on a routine basis.
For more info about Harry Pope look at any of the James Grant books. Or"The story of the Pope Barrels"

Some comments in response to points made by others, above:
Fixed-sight revolvers are sometimes zeroed for windage by rotating the barrel a bit, or by bending over the front sight blade - NEVER by bending the barrel (except, perhaps, by the shade-tree 'gunsmith' who should never get his hands on any good gun).
I'll bet a quarter nobody can find a quote about Harry Pope bending a barrel, match or not - please post the book, page and paragraph if you find one. Further, I'd bet Harry would rise out of the grave to personally cast the curse on anyone he ever found out had intentionally bent one of his barrels, and I know I'd have to be restrained from trying to re-straighten it over the offender's head, if I witnessed such a crime. I'll admit I've actually seen a trapshooter whack the barrel of his very expensive shotgun against a tree to change the pattern elevation, but those guys are basically nuts anyway, and shotguns are not rifles.
In case anyone is confused by barrel straightening in manufacture versus barrel bending to correct sight alignment: they are not the same thing, and not done for the same reason. Barrels have been, and may occasionally still be, straightened in manufacture, but never, to my knowledge, intentionally bent after the rifle was complete and the sights installed. This is poor practice and no workman worthy of the name would ever have cause or excuse to do it.
mhb - Mike

I'm looking thru my library...

Whiles working my way through college as a machinist I worked in a small job shop that did some work for a local muzzle loader builder. I wound up fitting his breechplugs.
He use quite a few of the crummy Numrich barrels. These barrels were made from low carbon steel that was cold drawn as octagon bar stock then was drilled and rifled. As a result the bore would be on center at one end and way off at the other.
Most were off center about .030 meaning you could see about .060 run out when chucked. There was one off about .045. To prevent having the sights offset to correct the windage he always asked that the extreme position of the bore run out be turned to the top or bottom as oriented to the breechplug. Often the run out was pointed at one of the octagon's corners so it not always possible to make sure the windage would not be off. I really disliked working on that junk.

I have bent barrels but not to correct for sights. It is not unusual for horses to roll on a rifle. I have straightened several that have been rolled on. When I was involved in barrel manufacturing it used to be common practice to bend a barrel during the mfg process. We were not making a top of the line benchrest barrels but they shot very well. I dont think this is how Lilja or Krieger do it, but it is possible.

If memory serves (and it doesn't always) the regular way of regulating a shotgun after installing a Cutts or PolyChoke was to bend the barrel. Since it was once standard practice to straighten barrels with an overhead press why would it not be acceptable to regulate them to the sights in the same way. I would not care for it but cannot say it could not be done with success. As far as Harry Pope he did some weird things and if he thought that was what the barrel needed I have no doubt he would do just that. He probably knew more about distance shooting than anyone of his era. I have also heard the tale for many years so it probably does have some basis in fact.

Not a gunsmith but I did it once with good results. I had a replica 73 that I installed a ladder sight on. The low, ladder down position, in combination with the front sight (already had the shortest available) still shot way low. I wanted it regulated at 50 yds with the ladder down. Now this gun came with an obvious barrel bend going down toward the muzzle, or to put it another way, there was a hump in the barrel. I was just correcting what was a factory flaw. Now I was pissed at the barrel and if I ruined it, I was just going to replace it. Put the two ends on v-blocks on a knee mill bed and cranked the barrel into contact with the head stock (with 2x4 in between). Cranked, backed off and checked ever .050" increase (MANY, many times). I was stunned how far I had to go beyond straight to get the barrel to take a set. I bet I was beyond 3/4" before the barrel started to straighten and it only took once. Nothing happened every time until the very last time, when it all happened. Installed the barrel and it looked good. Took it to the range and it still shot well (2"@100) and the ladder down was dead on at 50 and the lowest ladder setting was dead on at 100. Pure luck. I wouldn't have the balls to do that with a "good" barrel. I wouldn't know how you would control the degree of bend. When it went, it really went. Scared the poop out of me when it did.