Some time ago, There was a duscussion about lightweight and or exotic barrels...

http://forums.accuratereloadin...043/m/2351019061/p/1

At the time, I couldn't really say much about what we had, but now that we are finished with the first prototype, I can shed a little light...
First thanks to John Farner (toomanytools) for his unending patience when I would invade his shop for tools or help with this project.
While I am known for pistols, other guns are not at all unfamiliar to me. Its just that John has such a selection of tools, that being a friend, Im obligated to impose...lol.

About four or five years ago, I started consulting with a company called TPL, on a rifle barrel project. Their specialty is explosive welding, or cladding.
What follows is the first finished prototype.
The donor gun was an off the shelf remington SPS.
outfitted with a scope and rings, the rifle weighed 9.5 lbs. With merely a swap to the lightweight barrel, the weight dropped to just a hair under 8 lbs. The barrel can be subjected to further weight reduction, but we wanted to stick as close to comparing apples to apples as possible.
This gun was built as a proof of concept, so when test fired, great results were not expected.I can now say that it shoots 1/2 minute of angle at 100 all day long. this was marginally better than the factory barrel.
The main advantage sought was lighter weight and faster cooling between shots while maintaining a cooler operating temperature. Those goals have been met so far.
This barrel is CLAD to the steel on an atomic level and should prove to be far superior to any wrap or sleeve. Its one piece.

Here are the components before assembly..


The finished rifle before final testing. It was left in the white to show the barrel construction..



Dr. Doug Taylor and the finished rifle after shooting it. I think he's happy!



More as it develops...

That is pretty amazing. I am familiar with EXW bonding large sheets. Never seen it done with a barrel. Is it done from the outside, inside, or both?

Does the liner start out as solid bar then bored after bonding or is it a tube that is bonded then reamed and rifled.

This is really fascinating stuff.

so far as I know, we are the only ones having been successful with under .50 caliber barrels.
You are correct on the method, but I cannot divulge the process...

Not trying to get any trade secrets, but is this fundamentaly a "heat sink" concept that also offers weight reduction?

Sure sounds promising.

Its a lightweight barrel concept. Materials can be as demonstrated, steel and aluminum or many other variations.

what are those gouges on the muzzle? Looks pretty nasty.

Powder and blast residue right after shooting.
Muzzle blast patterns can be telling. The picture was taken at the range, immediately after shooting.

Its still a nice, clean, smooth 11 degree crown. Next time you clean your rifle, you can see the same. Little harder to see on blued rifles, but its there...

Another great advantage is that materials retain their parent properties before Cladding. This opens the door for ideas heretofore out of the realm of possibility.
Possibilities include barrels with stellite, inconel, or tantalum. This would allow longer service life while utilizing a more economical outer material for weight and cooling capability.
Heat treated materials can be clad and retain the same characteristics after cladding.
The potential grows exponentially as each engineering aspect is overcome.

There are many more prototypes in the works and the hope is to have some commercially available in the coming months.
Gets kinda fun..

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck1911:
Another great advantage is that materials retain their parent properties before Cladding. This opens the door for ideas heretofore out of the realm of possibility.
Possibilities include barrels with stellite, inconel, or tantalum. This would allow longer service life while utilizing a more economical outer material for weight and cooling capability.
Heat treated materials can be clad and retain the same characteristics after cladding.
The potential grows exponentially as each engineering aspect is overcome.

There are many more prototypes in the works and the hope is to have some commercially available in the coming months.
Gets kinda fun..

Who has the capability to rifle stellite, inconel, or tantalum?

Butch,
Stellite has been rifled a couple of different ways. ECM for one and an extrudehone type process as well. Inconel the same way as I understand it. Tantalum (Ta10w and Ta5w) has been done in larger calibers, but has yet to be done in .50 or below to the best of my knowledge.
Im pretty sure Ares and Ardec have something going on there. Ill dig up some harder facts.
I have a few Tantalum lined steel blanks that will be our first attempt at it.
There are barrels being EDM rifled as well. That kinda surprised me.
All three of those materials have been rifled. To what degree and size is not completely known.

Chuck,
I know that some have been done in the larger size bores, 50cal and above. I'm sure we will have technology to do this, but will the raggedy ass masses be able to afford this?

Isn't stellite used to line some M2-HB barrels?

Butch, thats all that interests me, too. Making stuff thats available. Ours will be.

Curt, yes, it was tried. Stellite chambers as well. Don't know if its in regular use though.
I think it was Benet or Ares.
The big kicker with the exotic materials is rifling. I hope to figure out a rifling machine in the coming months.

Doesn't Lowther Walther offer an aluminum barrel with a steel insert?

Yeah but that one isn't fused at the molecular level. It's more like a steel barrel inside an aluminum heat sink. Heat transfer won't be as efficient. But that's not to say it it won't be very good. I've been thinking about one to see for myself.

Chuck1911, are you working with the group that developed the cladded 1911 aluminum frames and slides?

Tigger, I am not working with them. Uselton appears to be working with another company in the cladding business. I will say their design and my first one, coincidentally followed the same path.
We are on a Gen III design for the 1911 that is in my opinion, superior in design and use of materials. They are only doing frames as far as I know. I'm not sure they even have guns out there yet.
We have an advantage in that I actually design the material for the application, and make it. I think they adapted an existing material.
That is no slight to them, as the write up on them introduced and explained cladding to a very large audience.
Being a gunsmith and the material designer, has some distinct advantages.

Butch, I have not seen anything like that, but thats not saying a lot...

I only saw one short article and while I don't know if they have produced any for sale, I do remember a price "range". It was what I would call "exotic". As in Lamborghini. Or Korth.

The goal is to be able to equip a custom rifle with this barrel and keep costs reasonable.
They will not be as cheap as buying a barrel off the rack per se, but not as expensive as a carbon or Ti barrel either we hope
The same principle will apply to all the other commercial developments as well.

If the email address is good on your website, you have an email.

Got it

Should have an AR to report on soon as well.
At a recent TNT in Indiana, some military people put 20 rnds through as fast as possible and could still hold the rifle by the barrel...

We will be at SHOT with a couple samples. We were to late for a booth, but I can be reached via cell at 505-227-7962.

We will be staying at the Mirage..

Chuck

Chuck that is one hell of an idea.

For those that don't know what explosion welding is look it up in google. That aluminum and steel is one after the boom. It's also how the weld steel structures to aluminum boats and vice versa

And Chuck for a guy that posts as little as you do. When you do post it is always something amazing

All M2 .50 BMG barrels have (for many many years now) a stellite liner for the first (I can't remember the exact distance but let's say a foot) of the chamber and rifling. But, it is a mechanical liner, not anything exotic like they are doing here. There is an expansion gap where the liner ends and the steel starts.

Chuck you wouldn't happen to work around Sandia?

See emblem below.

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
Chuck that is one hell of an idea.

For those that don't know what explosion welding is look it up in google. That aluminum and steel is one after the boom. It's also how the weld steel structures to aluminum boats and vice versa

And Chuck for a guy that posts as little as you do. When you do post it is always something amazing

Thank you KC. I promise there is a bucketload more coming. I try very hard to absorb all I have been exposed to in the last couple of years and apply it in a way thats not only pretty cool, but practical.
I have been blessed with a lot of great ideas in the last couple of years, and I can't wait to get this new venture settled so I can get this stuff out there.
This Barrel stuff was just the tip of the iceberg. Clad materials, when utilized properly, have far reaching applications. I have to keep most under wraps until completed and tested.
DPCD I can honestly say that those barrels will be overpriced, too heavy, and not last long enough....within the year?
KC,
This forum and the two 1911 forums I frequent are the only places this has been talked about so far. I may not post much, But I am an AR fanatic. I read just about everything on here...lol

Mr. Humbarger, I can see the home of the smart bullet across the valley...lol

quote:

Originally posted by D Humbarger:
Chuck you wouldn't happen to work around Sandia?

See emblem below.

Sice you mentioned that, My colleague and some of his former associates worked on a few large tube projects several years ago. I have a few sections in the shop...lol.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Yeah but that one isn't fused at the molecular level. It's more like a steel barrel inside an aluminum heat sink. Heat transfer won't be as efficient. But that's not to say it it won't be very good. I've been thinking about one to see for myself.

Chuck1911, are you working with the group that developed the cladded 1911 aluminum frames and slides?

Incidently, only the frame has been done. The slide will take some tricky engineering of material.

As an update, SHOT was a huge success. I can't name names as of yet, but I suspect a lot more of these barrels will be seen in the coming year. I didn't get but two hours to visit outside Corporate talks.
We are currently taking them from testing to production and some should be seen on factory rifles in the very near future. There may be a blurb or two in some publications coming up..

Chuck

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck1911:
As an update, SHOT was a huge success. I can't name names as of yet, but I suspect a lot more of these barrels will be seen in the coming year. I didn't get but two hours to visit outside Corporate talks.
We are currently taking them from testing to production and some should be seen on factory rifles in the very near future. There may be a blurb or two in some publications coming up..

Chuck

Very good to hear

We currently have a SOCCOM test of a barrel that should be concluded by the end of March.
This should be very telling.

It will lay the groundwork for how we proceed forward with barrel manufacturing...

I just received my Pierce titanium receiver. It needs to be a 280AI. What do you have?

Nothing at the moment Butch. Everything we have done so far has been .223, and .30 caliber. Right now we have been catering to the needs of the manufacturers interested in testing.
That part has consumed all we can make. When our initial test programs are done, (sometime by the end of this month or the first of april), I will be able to share some info and also realisticly determine what we will, or won't, be able to do. I can say for sure though, we will be making barrels, even if only 20-50 a month.

Butch,
With our current process, we are able to make cut rifled barrels in any caliber and twist, albeit, slowly.

My interest is in the collective opinion on blank size.
Id like to hear anyones opinions on a length for gunsmith installation.
We are debating the market quite seriously at the moment, and when independent testing is done in the coming weeks, I will be able to answer some technical questions as well.

Thanks.

Some specs...

The core of steel is currently .550- .560 so that a muzzle brake can be threaded to steel..





The shank end is approximately four inches and solid steel. It can be shortened for shorter cartridges to save more weight, yet is long enough to encase the longer cartridges in solid steel.



As I stated before, the advantage to our construction technique is that the barrel can be machined by the end user in a typical manner as well. Fluting, tapering, shortening etc. and all the other standard machining processes can be applied as well.

Thanks Chuck,
I believe it may be too heavy for my project.

All I know is I want one. But In .338
For a Lapua I want to build

Chuck without giving away your secrets is this more like the the explosion welding where they weld two plates together or is this similar to the system they use to install big arse crimp connection on high tension power lines??

I don't want proprietary details, just a yeah it like this or that. and just curious too. Lord knows I couldn't fund a project like that let alone try to steel it.

KC, I just started some .338 blanks. finishing some AR blanks now for testing.

Butch, I dont know how it could be too heavy, they are the lightest out there.
I look forward to seeing your rifle when its done.

KC, Bonded the same as the plates....sorta...lol

Chuck,
When you have 284s available, let me know. I would like to make it work. I would like to end up with a 24" barrel with a Shilen #3 contour.