quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe:
We saw galling on LOTS of stainless handguns and rifles...mebbe they got it doped now, but sure turned me off "stainless guns"

The only galling incident I saw on a regular basis with so called conventional steels were with the Kreighoff O/U (Remington copy) I was a Kreighoff warranty gunsmith at the time...boy were the customers really unhappy! I have no idea how many Kreighoff's Hal Du Pont ended up replacing

Duane - Glad to see you here again!!

Yes, I'd say the firearms industry has had a lot of problems with stainless. I had one of the early Ruger Redhawks, serial No. XX. It galled so badly that after a couple hundred rounds of factory Remington ammo the gun wouldn't even function. You'd pull the trigger and the hammer would fall about half way down and freeze SOLID! Had to disassemble the gun to free the hammer.

Sent it back to Ruger in Southport. After several months with no word, I called them. They had apparently replaced every part in the gun several times, but couldn't get it to function more than a relatively few rounds, then back to the same problem. Said they were going to keep it. I tried to get it back because of the low SN, but they wouldn't give it to me.

Anyway, they finally gave me a newer one. Maybe they had changed some of the steel in it by then. I don't know; I lubed it with Never-Gall. It has worked fine ever since.

As you likely recall, S&W also had a lot of trouble with some of their early stainless revolvers galling badly too. They also had a lot of pitting from salty human sweat getting on stainless guns carried concealed but sans holster by LEOs.

Ended up with S&W recommending conventional carbon steels with electroless nickel plating for those weapons carried by federal LEOS assigned TDY in places like Bolivia where high temps, high humidty, and sweaty humans were common and the guns still HAD to function reliably.

Though I can't know for sure, I suspect many of those problems came from not consulting a metallurist sufficiently familiar with firearms requirements AND stainless steel. If one just blithely assumes he can use stainless as a "drop-in" substitute for chrome-moly in a design, probably there will be a learning curve to climb...maybe a costly one.

Best wishes,

AC

P.S.- Had a chance to look at my cheapy double-rifle yet? Not trying to rush you, just curious.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Earl:
I dont cotton to stainless what so ever, however my personal deer rifle for Indiana is stainless because thats what I had to work with at the time and I needed it in an emergency. They work out OK, just dont show the beauty of a well worn tool that blued does. As far as triggers go, they should be oiled enough that they should never rust, stainless or not.

Beautiful piece of wood there too.

What round do you have it chambered in, and are you happy with it?

Gathering on experience building and maintaining injection molds for plastics I try to use an anti seize high in copper for applications that require ss on ss. I have also just completed two corrosion courses required for the degree I am working towards and while not able to go into detail here, copper based anti seize may be perhaps the best lube available for ss on ss applications, even in the coldest environments.

Andy

There is a stainless steel named Nitronic 60 that was developed specifically to avoid galling.
The data in the pdf shows how various stainless steels perform in galling resistance.

Galling Data

quote:

Originally posted:
There is a stainless steel named Nitronic 60 that was developed specifically to avoid galling.

Yes, that is one of the older successful anti-galling stainless steels.

Carpenter Steel, in Texas has developed a couple more since then which are supposedly better, Gall-Tough, and Gall-Tough Plus". This will show the alloy constituents of the "Plus" version:

"Based on this research, a second galling resistant stainless steel Gall-Tough PLUS Stainless was defined with excellent galling and chloride pitting resistance compared to Type 316. Nominal composition was 0.10%C, 5.5%Mn, 18%Cr, 8%Ni, 3.5%Si, 1%Mo, 0.15%N, and Fe-Bal."



Although this quote only compares it with 316 stainless (not an anti-galling ss per se), it has been compared with Nitronic 60 and found by some reporters to be less galling-prone and more chlorine pitting resistant.

Anyway, the message for folks making stainless steel parts that rub together, is to carefully define both the environment and loads that your steel may have to bear in your products, and then consult an experienced ss metallurgist and have HIM seek out the one that will best stand up to all the requirements. Don't just take the word of some manufacturer's sales rep.

I like mine just fine and 3 of them shoot better than any Blued Rife out of a box , least wise that I've ever owned .

Of course I don't leave them in the ground as tomato stakes or bilge mops . I take care of them as I would any of the rest of my firearms . I clean inspect lube fire repeatedly clean wipe down with T-9

and if storing T-9 the bore also . SS comes in all sorts of grades for all sorts of purposes some rust some don't some are better for particular applications , so I guess it's like anything else ;

KNOW WHAT YOU'RE BUYING BEFORE PURCHASING IT !!!.

AC ; I've got a Ruger Redhawk 44 mag it hits steel consistently out to 300 Yd. .It has a nice

little SS scope on it. I use it Javelina and Deer Hunting never ever screwed up and I've sent K's

of rounds down the pipe . Well as yours I've had mine Since they were introduced I believe I bought that around 81 if memory serves me .

After I sold Dirty Harry's studio prop S&W model 29, I needed another one so Red hawk looked OK

and has proven it's self MANY times over . It's not the " LOOKER " that my older S&W 29 is but

neither am I these days so I'll live with that . P S . I might also add that " ANY FIREARM " that

I purchase new I lap polish the Bore before ever firing them . Make a difference ? Don't know but reduces copper fouling that's a fact .

Doc-

I'm not surprised your rifles and Redhawk have worked well for you.

I don't generally own stainless/composite rifles as I don't care for their appearance, but lots of my fellow shooters here in the Oregon rain-forest do, and they perform as well as anything else for them...at least the relatively new ones bought in the last 5-7 years do. I don't know about the ones before that, as most of my current friends are such avid gun-loonies they are pretty much well beyond whatever they were shooting 7 years ago.

I love my Redhawk....always meant to get one in .41 Mag too, but never got around to it before they discontinued the .41s. Haven't shot mine much beyond 150 meters, but it will very reliably hold 2.5"-3" at 100 meters with the classic 240 gr. Hornady JHP and 22.0 grs. of the old 2400 you guys at Hercules used to produce...W-W cases with W-W LP Primers bought by the M as already primed brass.

I used to have a Leupold 2-X pistol scope on it, but actually found it more accurate with iron sights. Now, of course, after my stroke much of my vision is gone, so I can't do that kind of stuff any more.

I have had several M 29s, but to be honest, never liked them, so sold them all. Got tired of having my middle finger's knuckle hammered when shooting them. They just didn't fit my hand, even with Pachmyer or Hogue grips. I do not have long fingers, but I do have palms that are 1/2" to 1" longer than anyone I have met. I can quite easily pick up a basketball one-handed, from above, without having to stretch my hand at all. Maybe that has something to do with the S&Ws and I not getting along.

P>S. Nice pic of the little "collared peccary" (javelina). I used to love to sit on the south-facing hillsides in the Spring on the Mule-Shoe ranch in southern AZ and watch the little imitation "piggies" browse up the hill and into the small patches of mesquite or aspens with me, eating prickly pear like there was no tomorrow. Have often had them within 6-to-8 feet of me. And no, folks, they are NOT dangerous despite what you've heard. The sometimes-dangerous ones are the "white peccary" which are found mainly farther south than Arizona. The collared "Pecs" do have very poor eyesight, so if you startle them they will run whichever way they are facing... If that is directly at you, it may LOOK like a charge, but it's just a desparate attempt to escape. They not only aren't vicious, they aren't in the least bit brave, either.

Best wishes

quote:

Originally posted by Gun toter:
...it is my conclusion that to sit around and ponder having a stainless steel gun built (or to buy one)is an absolute waste of ones time. ...the trigger parts are not stainless! so who ... EDIT IN: cares... if the barrel and action are? those two components do not cause misfires and health problems, but a trigger does. ...

I had to carry Constantly Rusting Blue and Termite Food for many years, because that is all that was available. Parkerizing was a real blessing to protect the outside of the Receivers and Barrels. But the Termite Food suffered due to use rather than acquire rub-marks in a Safe.

Watched for a Stainless rifle made in Texas(Alpha Arms???I think) at one of the local Gun Shops, but they never had one when I was there. And I believe the company is now out of business anyhow.

Eventually the fine Remington folks decided to release a 7mmRemMag M700 in S&S. Went straight to the Gun Shop and they had just received some. Swapped in a CRB&TF and was I ever happy(still am).

As Gun toter mentioned, not all of the parts on it are 100% Stainless. But the parts that are sure make daily maintenance so much easier that it is difficult to explain to those of you who keep your rifles "in the house" 99% of the time.

As the years have passed, additional Remington parts are being made of Stainless, so the routine maintenance gets easier all the time. And I keep buying S&S. Remington even has a near bullet-proof coating on some of the S&S offerings today.

So, for me, they are great. But then again, mine go outdoors on a regular basis.

The M70 in stainless steel is ALL stainless steel. Every part is made of stainless steel in one grade or annother including the trigger, sear, pins, srews and springs.

Headache

AC; I used to load that also

" Haven't shot mine much beyond 150 meters, but it will very reliably hold 2.5"-3" at 100 meters with the classic 240 gr. Hornady JHP and 22.0 grs. of the old 2400 you guys at Hercules used to produce...W-W cases with W-W LP Primers bought by the M as already primed brass."

I still use JHP 200 ,225 and 240 now with IMR 4227. 24.4 grains W/225's and it will hold 1.5"-2.25" at a 100

meters ,it will use H110 around 24.0 grains the only powder it doesn't seem to work with is 296 !.

Which is really disappointing too me ,as I have a Few Kegs of it !.

Never tried lil- gun had bad experiences in a couple of other recipes for other calibers .

I mentioned above that I don't care for the looks of stainless steel and composite stocks, so most of my rifles are made of blued steel, with wood stocks. I DO have a number of rifles which are blued steel with composite stocks though. And I have another bunch which are blue steel actions with stainless barrels I put on myself. And, I have three rifles that ARE 100% stainless steel, with composite stocks.

More to the point in this stainless trigger business we've been yaking about, I have eight rifles of varying makes which have definite, 100% stainless triggers in them.

Every one of my rifles, regardless of composition goes outside to hunt, target shoot, and/or plink. I wouldn't want a rifle that couldn't. Any scars, marks, tatoos or post-birth markings they bear are just "honour" awards they received for actions in the field.

I just bought a little custom carbine last weekend, it is an old P-64 Mod. 70, re-bored and chambered to 9.3x62 by Jim Dubell. It has been stocked in a highly modded Boyt's laminate finished in heat-soaked epoxy and fully glassed and wears a Leupy 4x with HD in low Zee Rings on Weaver Grand Slams. I am going to replace the factory irons with Recknagel "fire sights" as on my custom P-64 "shorty" in ,375H&H and call it good.

These rifles go into remote BC, Yukon and N.W.T. areas and are left in trucks, tents, on Skidoos and sometimes on horses. I shoot all my currently 29 big game rifles and even my 5 or 6 more specialized rifles and while I have preferences, none of them is based on blue steel vs. stainless.

My one "carry" pistol is a 5.5" Redhawk sts, using 250HCs over 21-H-110 and this is accurate, I have had this gun since Dec-26. 1990 and packed while working in the bush up north. I have never had a problem with it and never expect to.

Any gun that is to be used for serious wilderness work or hunting needs to be given regular maintenance and this is just common sense. Most of the working wilderess pros I know and have known used blue steel guns and seemed to make out alright....maybe they just didn't know enough to realize that what they were doing was wrong, eh........................

quote:

The best after-market trigger made is stainless. And they're made right there next to you in Texas

Heck, my Shilen trigger is CM.

quote:

What round do you have it chambered in, and are you happy with it?

Mark, It's in .358 Indiana express. A necessary evil I invented to allow me to be legal with Indiana's new rifle season that requires .358" or larger bore and 1 5/8" case or shorter. It's a 257 WSSM necked up and it drops deer flat. Yep, I like it. Earl.

Gun Toter, did you have to practice to become that much of an asshole or did you come by it naturally.

quote:

Originally posted by Customstox:
Gun Toter, did you have to practice to become that much of an asshole or did you come by it naturally.

I'm going to guess it takes practice and that is the real purpose of this thread.

I remember reading that in sub-freezing temps, stainless steels become brittle, and the hoop stress strength suddenly drops way off. The only evidence I've seen of this in the gun industry is Krieger's refusal to machine their lighter contours in stainless steel (there's a warning about this on their website).

I have and shoot stainless guns and I like them, but I've always wondered if I wouldn't take a rust blued or wonder-coating covered Chrome Moly gun if I ever got to go to Alaska hunting. Of course, other than the Sako's a few years ago, you don't hear about lots of barrels blowing up on hunting trips, so I wonder if the Stainless used in the gun industry is less brittle or over-built enough that there isn't a problem.