Hello everyone I need so pointers on soldering a checkered release button on a mauser bolt stop/ejector box.I am using brownells fluxed hi-force 44 and an el-cheapo propane torch. Here's how I was tring to do it.. cleaned area to be soldered with 22o grit sandpaper then wipe with a clean cotton cloth.After that heat with torch touch solder to the surface (most of the time the solder would melt and stay in a little ball) then I try to wipe wth a cotton cloth (solder does not spead on the surface well) Maybe I need a hotter torch? and or get some flux to try with it?Is there any flux I can get from the local hardware store that would work?When I try to try put them together most of the time they just fall apart one time they stayed together but I taped on it and it fell apart.I think I am not getting them hot enough but this is the first time I am tring it. Thank You for any help you can give me. Frank

Sorry, I have not used the "fluxed" solder. My experience is only with those solders requiring a separate flux like those mentioned below. You do need a good heat source. I only use propane to warm parts. For soldering I use Oxy/Acetylene. To rapidly reach the temperatures required for the Force 44 solder, I would think you would need to use at lease a MAPP gas torch.

One more thing, simply hitting the area with sandpaper isn't enough, "You have to TOTALLY remove all traces of oil and grit from the steel if you want the solder to flow freely and make a strong joint. Even the slightest speck of dirt, grit, or oil will block the solder from flowing and sticking".

Brownells recommends "Comet" flux for the regular Force 44 solder.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=7624

And for the High Temp Force 44, Copper Bond flux.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=7625

Frank;

Brownells sells "Comet flux" by Kapp for use with High Force 44, I doubt that your local hardware will have what you need. Soldering and brazing require the parts to be joined be clean, some solvents and your fingers can leave oil etc on the surface that will prevent bonding. Also be sure to heat the parts evenly and be careful to not get them too hot as the solder will just stand on the surface in a ball as you described. Creep up to soldering temperature and when it is right the solder will melt and run when touched to the surface of the metal. I try to never let the flame touch the solder. This is how I was shown years ago and it works for me. You may want to look for someone in your area that is good at soldering and brazing and ask for some help. Good luck.

Your problemm is your Propane torch. Its not getting the work hot enough. There is a torch called a Turbo torch available that uses air-acetylene that was specifically designed for plumbing soldering that I use for all my soldering. MSC may still sell them. Try it it works beautifully.-Rob

you need an acid flux .. if the solder just balls up it is either too cold on the metal or no/not enough flux.

it should flow, with flat edges ...

flow, with rounded edges generally means flux enough, but not hot enough

Frank

Welcome! Forgive me if this seems basic and a repeat of what has been said. Others reading may benefit from a complete answer.


Any type of solder is fine, Force 44 is great, but any soft solder will provide plenty of strength and will work unless you intend to have it hot blued, then high temp solder is needed.

Any type of heat is fine as long as the mass of the ejector box gets hot enough to melt the solder. Propane is fine. The turbo torch head causes turbulence in the barrel and allows gas/air mix before ignition. It is said to burn hotter than a regular head. Heads are made for Propane/Mapp (I have one and like it), and acetylene. The mass of the objects to be joined determines how many BTU's you have to put too it. Electric current and other sources of heat are used in production work to get constant temperatures.

Clean the parts well, I would use a wire wheel. Flux the box and apply heat to the underside, not the top. (you have drifted out the spring). You need an acid flux, I prefer phosphoric acid rather than hydrochloric based flux. The HCL will corrode the steel faster if not neutralized promptly. When the flux bubbles, apply the solder to the top. When it melts, remove the heat and wipe the solder. That is now "tinned"

Now flux and clamp the button in place, and again apply heat to the underside. Although not always needed, I usually touch the solder to the joint until it melts and is drawn in. Be sure to wipe the joints but keep the clamp on until it has cooled.

A low temp heat source and long heating time allows the flux to boil and the surface to oxidize. That is why the solder balls up. I think the part needs to get to a temp to melt the solder in 8-10 sec or you should move up to a hotter gas. The small MAPP cylinders are only a few bucks more than propane, burn at least 400 F hotter, and can work with your current burning head. I use the hand held button ignition turbo torch for MAPP, and I have a plumbers size propane tank and hose with several heads for bigger jobs.

I hope this helps


Roger

PS Be sure the part is not held in a heat sink. A large steel vise will draw the heat much too fast for good work. I put small parts on a fire brick, but any non heat conducting substance will work.

Thanks to erveryone for the advice.I think I will order some flux and try it again.If that dosen't do it I will get some Mapp gas and try it... when I get time (me and the wife have a beauitful little 6 month old girl so if anyone needs advice on changing diapers let me know). Thanks again to everyone. Frank

quote:

Originally posted by Frank in FL:
...if anyone needs advice on changing diapers let me know.

I think a lot of us are dreading that day!

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:

quote:

Originally posted by Frank in FL:
...if anyone needs advice on changing diapers let me know.

I think a lot of us are dreading that day!

Differnet kind of diapers, but you're not that old yet, are you malm?
-Don

quote:

Originally posted by Don Markey:

quote:

Originally posted by Westpac:

quote:

Originally posted by Frank in FL:
...if anyone needs advice on changing diapers let me know.

I think a lot of us are dreading that day!

Differnet kind of diapers, but you're not that old yet, are you malm?
-Don

Hell No! Still have my teeth!

One thing we found in the lab was that typical propane soldering tanks didn't have the cleanest propane !! Contaminents in the propane would sometimes prevent good soldering . The gases in oxy/acet are much cleaner.
The piece must get to the 400 + F temperature to get the solder to stick and flow.Proper gap for capillary action for solder and braze is .003".Getting to the temperature should be quick.