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Gents I need anyone who has the atf regs and the postal regs to either email them to me or point me to the reference. Today for the first time in 15 years the local post office refused to ship a rifle for me to a ffl holder. Apparently they were told by the "gent" that owns the local gun shop that what I am doing is illegal when we all know it is not. Now I have to back up my claim.


Happiness is a warm gun
 
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Here you are, Mike. Might have to follow links to the GCA of 1968, but you won't have a problem. Key is that you DO NOT TELL your local post office what it is that you are mailing.

Also of note that a very valuable firearm must be shipped registered mail to be able to buy enough insurance. Registered mail requires that fiber tape that you wet to seal the container.

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

Regards, Tim
 
Posts: 1323 | Location: Washington, DC | Registered: 17 March 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Wendell Reich
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Why fight it. Go to a different post office.
 
Posts: 6281 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: 13 July 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Tim Carney:
Here you are, Mike. Might have to follow links to the GCA of 1968, but you won't have a problem. Key is that you DO NOT TELL your local post office what it is that you are mailing.

Also of note that a very valuable firearm must be shipped registered mail to be able to buy enough insurance. Registered mail requires that fiber tape that you wet to seal the container.

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

Regards, Tim


Unfortunately, it would be illegal not to declare it as a long gun.


Dave
 
Posts: 928 | Location: AKexpat | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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ATF page:

http://www.atf.gov/content/fir...ipping-firearms-usps

From that webpage:

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]


Dave
 
Posts: 928 | Location: AKexpat | Registered: 27 October 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by A7Dave:
quote:
Originally posted by Tim Carney:
Here you are, Mike. Might have to follow links to the GCA of 1968, but you won't have a problem. Key is that you DO NOT TELL your local post office what it is that you are mailing.

Also of note that a very valuable firearm must be shipped registered mail to be able to buy enough insurance. Registered mail requires that fiber tape that you wet to seal the container.

http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm

Regards, Tim


Unfortunately, it would be illegal not to declare it as a long gun.


Wrong.
 
Posts: 8169 | Location: humboldt | Registered: 10 April 2002Reply With Quote
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Thanks for the page reference guys. Right now my blood pressure is up and I could spit nails. The problem isn't the post office. I am sure as soon as I show them the regs they will be fine with it. It is a new gal trying to protect her job and she was very apologetic. Unfortunately the guy I knew all these years who also knew the regs took the retirement package offered him. she in good faith called the local gun shop. You know the rest. I was told by the owner of the gun shop it is "people like me who are the reason the government is coming down on everyone." Lets see, I buy through ffls, and I sell through ffls. End of story as far as I am concerned. I have always tried to stay well within the law. This entire deal today just frosted my ass. There is more to the story with the owner but lets just say it didn't improve from there.


Happiness is a warm gun
 
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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I think i'd pay that guy at the gun shop a visit and educate him and mention what his friggin ignorance cost you in time.

Rule #1 never ever ever believe a damn word spoken inside a tackle shop or a gun store.

rule #2 when in doubt refer to rule #1


www.KLStottlemyer.com

Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK
 
Posts: 2534 | Location: National City CA | Registered: 15 December 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Smith:
she in good faith called the local gun shop. You know the rest. I was told by the owner of the gun shop it is "people like me who are the reason the government is coming down on everyone." Lets see, I buy through ffls, and I sell through ffls. End of story as far as I am concerned. I have always tried to stay well within the law.


You REALLY owe it to all the gun owners in your area to let everyone know what an ass the shop owner is.

I have found the owners of small gun stores to be one of the largest foes of law abiding gun owners. It is common for them to make-up gun laws to increase sales.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of kcstott
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quote:
Originally posted by JBrown:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Smith:
she in good faith called the local gun shop. You know the rest. I was told by the owner of the gun shop it is "people like me who are the reason the government is coming down on everyone." Lets see, I buy through ffls, and I sell through ffls. End of story as far as I am concerned. I have always tried to stay well within the law.


You REALLY owe it to all the gun owners in your area to let everyone know what an ass the shop owner is.

I have found the owners of small gun stores to be one of the largest foes of law abiding gun owners. It is common for them to make-up gun laws to increase sales.


Thats the damn truth


www.KLStottlemyer.com

Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK
 
Posts: 2534 | Location: National City CA | Registered: 15 December 2008Reply With Quote
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Ship FedEx! It is faster, cheaper and they don't ask me.
 
Posts: 127 | Registered: 29 January 2012Reply With Quote
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Picture of jeffeosso
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quote:
Originally posted by kcstott:
I think i'd pay that guy at the gun shop a visit and educate him and mention what his friggin ignorance cost you in time.


Ask him if he would like to bet his license that you would survive an ATF audit better than he would.. as shiping a LONG GUN to an FFL isn't illegal.. and if the post office marks it "gun" take a picture, then march over to the postal inspectors office and ask for the marker's job.. as that is illegal...

they MUST, not might, accept a long gun according to their own regs...

the gun shop in question is pissed off that he's not getting his "cut" for a transfer...

under the bus!


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

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Posts: 40232 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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I think jeffeosso hit it on the head, the local Stealer is mad he is missing out on fees for shipping a firearm.

Steve E............


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Posts: 1839 | Location: Semo | Registered: 31 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Not an isolated incident. Four years ago I tried to ship several rifles to an FFL from southeastern VA only to be told "the post office cannot ship firearms".
I contacted my congressmen and received an almost immediate reply from a staff member.
Next day I got an e-mail from the area postmaster general, along with his phone number, and a message to take the guns to the same post office for shipment.
The firearms were accepted the second time around.
 
Posts: 107 | Registered: 10 February 2004Reply With Quote
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The Post Office's own regs say that it is not their job to enforce gun laws. I had a local jerk clerk who made me open a box and show him it was not loaded; next time I took along a copy of the PO regs and showed them to the post master; he made the guy shut up. I no longer go to that Post Office.
 
Posts: 17442 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Since when does a government employee ask a private citizen about their own government rules? Incompetence exemplified.

Since when does a gun store owner not know the simple rules of shipping a firearm? Ignorance exemplified.
 
Posts: 6281 | Location: Dallas, TX | Registered: 13 July 2001Reply With Quote
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It gets even better! I printed out the regs from both the ATF and the USPS sight. I took them in. Clerk said a supervisor would not be in until Monday to look at them. So still wouldn't ship my package! now I am pissed! I am going to make a formal complaint if I can figure out who to make it to. I will not do it locally as it would just get trashed. Now I am heading for the ups hub.


Happiness is a warm gun
 
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Mike

USPS broke the fifth gun I mailed using them and there is no recourse despite insurance purchased.
Go another route, my friend, and send the long gun in wooden crate. (It was a custom gun in a Lazermark stock.)

2 cents


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Posts: 4899 | Location: Bryan, Texas | Registered: 12 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Let me guess; you live in a blue state or at least a liberal part of one. People think Iowa is just a state full of good old farmers; not in the cities; it is as liberal as you can get and the post office workers do not like guns. That is why I go to UPS.
And this is why the PO is broke; they are driving their own business away.
 
Posts: 17442 | Location: USA | Registered: 02 August 2009Reply With Quote
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you know I have always stood up for the postal workers as they got a royal government screwing. Apparently the feds raided their trust fund just like they did social security. That is what killed them along with the ridiculous benefit packages they got. At least in the past that was true. Now I am just going to take my business elsewhere and doubt I will feel much sympathy as they circle the drain like a lot us have been doing for some time. As far as the gun shop owner? He wasn't even interested in reading anything I brought in because "I didn't have one of the books that he as a FFL holder did." BTW the gunshop is Bullseye Firearms in Grafton Ohio. I believe they have a web site. You all might want to pay them a visit. Greed, Arrogance, Ego or what? I don't know. Maybe he thinks he is actually right. I know when I think I am absolutely right I will not back down. That does not mean I will not listen to reason. If someone can show me where I am wrong I will immediately apologize and learn from it. In this this case I have to believe the guy really knows better or at least should.

As for the postal clerk, I have a couple of things to say. First, she did remain polite through the entire thing although I felt like I got the bums rush today. Second, it isn't my job to teach them what their own regulations and rules are. Last, if you are not going to believe me, why would you call a chucklehead down the street and ask him? I don't care if he is a FFL holder. You should do your own research and due diligence, read the regulations for yourself.


Happiness is a warm gun
 
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by A7Dave:
ATF page:

http://www.atf.gov/content/fir...ipping-firearms-usps From that webpage:

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
NICELY DONE DAVE. Can't get any more plain than that.


Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can.
 
Posts: 5307 | Location: Near Hershey PA | Registered: 12 October 2012Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike Smith:
you know I have always stood up for the postal workers as they got a royal government screwing. Apparently the feds raided their trust fund just like they did social security. That is what killed them along with the ridiculous benefit packages they got. At least in the past that was true. Now I am just going to take my business elsewhere and doubt I will feel much sympathy as they circle the drain like a lot us have been doing for some time. As far as the gun shop owner? He wasn't even interested in reading anything I brought in because "I didn't have one of the books that he as a FFL holder did." BTW the gunshop is Bullseye Firearms in Grafton Ohio. I believe they have a web site. You all might want to pay them a visit. Greed, Arrogance, Ego or what? I don't know. Maybe he thinks he is actually right. I know when I think I am absolutely right I will not back down. That does not mean I will not listen to reason. If someone can show me where I am wrong I will immediately apologize and learn from it. In this this case I have to believe the guy really knows better or at least should.

As for the postal clerk, I have a couple of things to say. First, she did remain polite through the entire thing although I felt like I got the bums rush today. Second, it isn't my job to teach them what their own regulations and rules are. Last, if you are not going to believe me, why would you call a chucklehead down the street and ask him? I don't care if he is a FFL holder. You should do your own research and due diligence, read the regulations for yourself.
I'm wondering why the clerk didn't check with the superior in that office in order to determine what "proper USPS Procedure is". Seems odd that someone would take an outsider's opinion over one determined by his/her own supervisor.


Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can.
 
Posts: 5307 | Location: Near Hershey PA | Registered: 12 October 2012Reply With Quote
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I am thinking the inmates are in charge of the asylum.


Happiness is a warm gun
 
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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I am going to go in tomorrow and see if it is resolved. If not a call to my Congress person. Who in the postal chain of command would be appropriate to contact next if it is still an issue?


Happiness is a warm gun
 
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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DPCD yep I am in a dummycratic stronghold.

quote:


posted May 31, 8:38 PM Hide Post



quote:

Originally posted by Mike Smith:
she in good faith called the local gun shop. You know the rest. I was told by the owner of the gun shop it is "people like me who are the reason the government is coming down on everyone." Lets see, I buy through ffls, and I sell through ffls. End of story as far as I am concerned. I have always tried to stay well within the law.


You REALLY owe it to all the gun owners in your area to let everyone know what an ass the shop owner is


This guy is actually doing a fine job of that all by himself. He is single handedly running off more business than he will ever know. I will however also help to spread the word.

Well, I just took my blood pressure meds so it is off to the post office for round three.


Happiness is a warm gun
 
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Mike, Did you straighten those folks out yet? CB


Life itself is a gift. Live it up if you can.
 
Posts: 5307 | Location: Near Hershey PA | Registered: 12 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Yes as a matter of fact I did finally. Two days ago! The clerk who was giving me the grief thought I was going to have her job after I took the postmaster out to the parking lot for a chat. This is after spending 30 minutes inside while they were on a conference call with someone who actually knew the regulations and or bothered to look them up for themselves. I told them that no matter how irritated I was I didn't blame the clerk entirely and even so I would keep it local. I don't mess with peoples lively hood even if they deserve it. I don't feel I have the right as in the cosmic scheme of things to do that. Lets just say I will not have any more trouble from them. Actually, although I have tried to support our little post office as much as possible I will continue using my ups account as it is hassle free and actually a dollar or two cheaper. I do know one gun shop that I will not spend another nickel in. pissers So it took a couple of weeks and 4 trips to get it done. My tax dollars at work again.


Happiness is a warm gun
 
Posts: 4106 | Location: USA | Registered: 06 March 2002Reply With Quote
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