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Are AR10 and AR15 small part kits interchangeable? If not, what are the differences? New territory for me. Also how can you tell an AR10 buffer and spring from an AR15 buffet and spring with both being the collapseable buttstock? Thanks. FourTails | ||
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You probably would be better off asking AR questions in a AR forum, and reduce the erroneous answers. | |||
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Thanks for the information. FourTails | |||
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Gunsmithing is the correct place for this question; parts compatibility questions are asked all the time. Realize that the term, AR 10 is a trademark of ArmaLite and cannot be used by any other company. The lower parts are the same as an AR-15. Buffers and springs; the buffers are different; the tens are shorter and heavier, usually. Springs are the same, usually; although there are many makers. First question for you though, is, what make of lower do you have; they are not all the same. ArmaLite and others are not interchangeable in the 308 platform. | |||
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Okay here are the problems with AR15's and AR10's. The AR15's basis is a military rifle. That means they have military specifications. You probably heard the parts called military spec. The AR10 on the other had was never a U.S. military rifle thus it doesn't have military specifications. To complicate this Armalite owns the trademark. So the many AR10 manufacturers don't have a guide line to follow so mainly the receivers will have minor differences that prevent them from mating perfect. Other difference is Armalite have some differences in the bolt/carrier group. the distance the gas port hole is from the breach, some other little things. Rock River Arms's receivers are a different length then most others because Armalite was very adamant with RRA that if they made an AR10 like Armalite's they would sue them. Now the fire control groups, that is selector/safety, trigger and hammer, and their associated parts, the take down pins and their detents, and the magazine button release and bolt hold open are the same between the AR15 and AR10. As dcpd pointed out the buffers are different. He is incorrect on the buffer springs being the same. They are not. So you can buy yourself a set of AR10 receivers, get the barrel, gas block, bolt/carrier group, forearm , buffer and spring which all are dedicated to the AR10 and use the AR15 parts for the rest of the part. Note originally the AR10 did have a different hammer in the sense of it was more massive and heavier. Some AR10's have a spring around the firing pin. The AR15 hammer trigger group when used on an AR10 setup doesn't strike the bigger heavier firing pin as hard or good as the original. | |||
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You can't call all 308/7.62 size AR receivers, AR-10. There are two basic designs; the ArmaLite one and the DPMS type made by various other makers; read this: https://308ar.com/ar-10-308-ar...ity-reference-guide/ Yes the big ones use different buffer springs but there is one flat one which I have used that is common. Yes, ArmaLite was very adamant about copies and did not allow trademark infringement. Lot more to the story regarding RRA which I can't put here. | |||
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There are a lot more then just the two basic ones you mentioned. Just about anyone who makes a receiver set has dimensions that prevent a good mating with other brands. Yeah I know all about what went on with RRA and a whole bunch of other companies as I have a really good "insider" friend. Armalite sure didn't like anyone else calling their models AR10, thus, for example, DPMS called theirs LR-308. What's going to happen to DPMS now that Remington doesn't look too stable. Did you know that headspacing on an Armalite AR10 is different from other "copies" Tom? | |||
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While I got your attention here Tom I have some files on the M1 Garand that most in the industry have never seen before. I have the whole history of their manufacture and also of the manufacture of small arms for the U.S. military during the WW2 days. | |||
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Interesting. I own the first AR-10 produced, as well as the first AR30 and AR-50. | |||
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The AR10 that they did the trials with wasn't the AR10 with the carbon barrel with the steel liner that we heard blew a bullet through the side of it. The test's were rigged. The AR10 in my opinion was the better rifle and from what I hear and read the FN FAL actually beat the M14. The M14 isn't a bad rifle, but it sure didn't and couldn't transplant all the other weapons it was suppose to. The M14 that you test blew up did the lugs in the receiver set back any? How about the lugs on the bolt? Tell you little story from a Nam Vet friend of mine. The base he was on go overrun by VC. It's like the movies and stories about how bodies were piling up in front of the machine guns they were coming so strong. He had a M1 Garand. I always wondered why? Anyhow he couldn't stop firing and he had a shitload of enblocs. He said he caught the wood on fire and had that rifle really hot. When the action stopped and they could take a rest and review everything they looks at the Garand and he (probably exaggerated) and the bore was like 40 caliber! The Garand never quit!! He said they buried it. | |||
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Or the report out of world WWII some Pacific island soldiers fox hole mates got killed. he used all three grands for about 5 hrs. Firing around 400 rounds keeping the enemy at bay basically destroying all three rifles in the process. | |||
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yes and no .. all the DPMS ar10 / rem r25 lowers (ar10) use the same lower parts kit as the "normal" (not colt) ar15. I do not know about the actual armalite or colt based ar10s. so, you can't use (well, mostly) a colt ar15 LPK with a DPMS/remington ar10 opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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For sure the new rifle trials in the 1950s were rigged in favor of the M14. The FN won, but since SA was in production of the M1 they said that the machinery could be used for an M14. McNamara closed springfield armory for mismanagement, I think. The original AR-10 was made in Holland, and used by Sudan, Portugal and a couple of other countries. ArmaLite in the US was a very small company with limited production capabilities. And that composite barrel was a bad idea. The AR-10s I refer to are the new ones from the ArmaLite company that was resurrected in the 1980s. The M14 I blew up with blank powder, the receiver was not damaged; the plastic stock was split in front of the mag well, and the bolt face was broken in half. The bottom half was blown out the bottom; I didn't have a magazine in it. I still have the brass case, melted at the back. Yes the M1, and M14 receivers are very strong. If that guy had an M1 in VietNam, it was not issued to him. Very suspect story....... Maybe he stole a South Vietnamese one.... | |||
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The difference with the COLT internal firing system parts was COLT used a different size pin that anchors the trigger group and the hammer. This was in the earlier days. Later on they adopted the standard that everyone is using now. Also in the early days COLT used the standard today take down pin, but the front take down hinge pin was much larger. Now they are like everyone else. The first COLTs and M16 receivers were made by CMT (Continental Machine and Tool). M16's were made by other companies too during Nam like Hydramatics. | |||
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The story I got on the test was that the M14's were pristine and armor gone over to perfection. The ammo used in them was pristine and special loaded. The FN was none of this, in fact I believe some of the rifles sent to the test were well used. Some of the big reasons the M14 got chosen was the Brass wanted a wood and steel rifle and they wanted a U.S. military rifle what was BUILT in the U.S. Isn't that funny now huh, hardly any of the rifles and handguns they are using now are U.S. Don't forget that FN down south is building the M16's and M4's. Yeah there are some other American companies making a few. In in the sand box they are using what they can get their hands on in 7.62 NATO chambering like old M14's, M1A's from Springfield, AR10 from various sources, etc. Don't forget Barrett. Little known to many Colt in the early days bend over backwards to please the Army. The Army wanted the M16 with a gas piston system. Colt made it and the Army changed their mind. They made belt fed M16's, there were even some 7.62x39 M16's. The major part of the problem was politics. All who had a part in designed the M16 and AR10 were Eugene Stoner, Melvin Johnson (look a the bolt on a 1940's Johnson and then look at the M16 bolt), and Jim Sullivan. The AR10 was first made by Armalite and later on about 1959 they sold a five year contract to Holland. How could Holland have made the first AR10's if they didn't invent it???? Stoner was a 30 caliber man, he never wanted a small bore AR, the Army did. There were M1 Garands in Nam along with a lot of other ancient arms. Yes they did arm the South Vietnamese with Garands and they were too large and heavy for their small stature. Many M1 Carbines got issued. Many Swedish K's were used until the Swedes found out the U.S was using them in Nam and would sell them anymore and that's when S&W entered the picture and made their version. Yes the Garand and M14 receivers are very strong, dpcd found that out blowing up a M14. | |||
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The Mi6 and early colts used the standard pin size after the 94 so called assault weapons band colt changed to a different pin size. To try and placate the government types every else used the original pin size I believe colt went back to the original size. | |||
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   Notice that rear sight. They had that and never put it on the first M16's or AR15's. Wonder why? | |||
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If that is your select fire original AR-10, I am very impressed. | |||
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On no, guess I should have made that clear. It belongs to a fellow in Holland. Just wanted to show you all the whole deal and read McCoy. | |||
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I've built about 30 AR15 style rifles for various people and exactly 3 "AR10" style rifes for others and myself using various manufacturers receivers and barrels in both 6.5CM and .308. There are several common parts with the AR15 platform but more are NOT common than are and to make matters worse there is no standardization when it comes to AR10 style guns....BUT... the DPMS pattern seems to be more prevalent and this mainly applies to the barrel thread/barrel nut interface and or rail. IN the upper I don't think any parts interchange except maybe the forward assist if it has one. When building one of these guns its best to double check the compatibility of the part in question with the manufacturer of both the part and receiver...or deal with a vendor that will take returns with no questions asked and no restoking fees like Brownells or Midway. I've used "AR10" receivers from Aero Precision, Mega Machine and Tool and Wilson Combat with no real issues. Keep in mind that a .308 pattern AR will require different tools than an AR15 meaning action vice blocks and barrel torque tools etc. AR15 tools will not fit an action or barrel extension if you are screwing on or taking off a barrel from an upper. I like the JP enterprises action block to hold and upper in the vice because it is reversible and can be used with either an AR15 or a .308 pattern receiver. | |||
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I'm going to let you guys in on a little secret. If you're working with a flat top upper receiver you don't need an action block. You lead line your vice jaws and you clamp your action between the jaws. You can use a block of hard oak wood on the underneath side. Been doing them for years that way with no problems what so ever. In fact I feel it's a more solid anchoring. I've uses many different brand receivers and have used Aero and Mega. Both are excellent. Mega quit selling them and went back into manufacturing aircraft parts, but the company that made them for Mega is now selling them under their own name and they are exactly the same except for the name on them. That's Zev Technology. When DPMS came out with their Gen II receivers they are different then the old style and there are changes on them. I believe the barrel thread extension on the upper receiver is a different size or kind. I don't like DPMS's stuff so don't use it. | |||
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Thanks again for all the informative and helpful comments. Got two AR10s done with two AR15s in the works at present. Good shooting to all. Mike FourTails | |||
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