What is the difference between the Mauser 96 and the Mauser 98 in regards to gas flow. I see the M98 bolt has another lug which gets turned under the bolt and the two slots. What I don't see is what stops the flow on the left rail on the M96, I don't have a M98 to look at.

What is the 3rd lug on the M98 for?

The third lug, I assume, is in case the other two break.

The gas ports on the bottom of a 98 bolt divert gases following the firing pin to go into the magazine.

When the bolt is locked down, the ports are on the left side not pointing down into the mag well.

Since it is cock on closing, as one pushed the loaded round into the chamber, he hopes the firing pin stays put. If something bad were to happen then, the two lugs block the rails and the third blocks the extractor. The gas ports in the bolt are pointing down into the mag box at this point. Definately better than the M96 in this regard.

Is this the reason behind the differences?

PEI ROB,
The twp slots on the M98 bolt serve 2 different purposes. The forward slot is a vent only to prevent the firing pin from being blown back by gas pressure against the spring flange. The rear slot provides a slot for the firing pin safety lugs. When the bolt handle is raised the tow safety lugs on the forward edge of the firing pin spring flange cannot enter this slot. If the firing pin breaks with the bolt handle raised nothing happens. (Jack O'Connor, the long time shooting editor of Outdoor Life Magazine, wrote about getting his thumb broken when the firing pin of his Springfield broke.) The rear slot also can vent some gas when the firing pin is down. Even so in the event of a blown case head the 98 will still dump enough gas into the magazine box to split the stock.

The only thing to stop gas on the left side of either action is the bolt stop and the flange on the bolt sleeve.

quote:

PEI ROB,
The twp slots on the M98 bolt serve 2 different purposes. The forward slot is a vent only to prevent the firing pin from being blown back by gas pressure against the spring flange.

OK, makes sense, was guessing in that direction.

quote:

The rear slot provides a slot for the firing pin safety lugs. When the bolt handle is raised the tow safety lugs on the forward edge of the firing pin spring flange cannot enter this slot. If the firing pin breaks with the bolt handle raised nothing happens.

So there are lugs inside the bolt body to fit these lugs on the firing pin? I can understand the machining process to make these internal lugs, plunge an endmill basically. Again, don't have a M98 so didn't know that. Thanks. Can the M96 bolt be modified for a M98 firing pin in order to have this safety feature?

quote:

The rear slot also can vent some gas when the firing pin is down. Even so in the event of a blown case head the 98 will still dump enough gas into the magazine box to split the stock.

The only thing to stop gas on the left side of either action is the bolt stop and the flange on the bolt sleeve.

Moral of the story, you do NOT want to blow a case head or even a primer with a M98 or M96.

[/QUOTE] Moral of the story, you do NOT want to blow a case head or even a primer with a M98 or M96.[/QUOTE]

To be honest, I would not like to blow either of those on any action, but If I did, the m98 design would not be the action design to cause me the most concern.

[QUOTE]
The only thing to stop gas on the left side of either action is the bolt stop and the flange on the bolt sleeve.[QUOTE]

The thumbcut helps, in the fact that gases have a nice big outlet instead of all having to be forced toward the shroud flange or receiver ejector slot.
No doubt gases will still charge toward the flange&slot, but fluids being what they are, will quick divert away from any restriction and seek the easiest most open least restricting path.
Havng said that, any amount of high speed gas and fragments heading toward a person is not a good thing.

Gas blasting out of a firearm is unpleasant in the extreme.
I have been gassed by:
1. A Mossberg .22 -one of the versions with the plastic plug in the bolt bore. You would never think that gas would get by that plug. It was no fault of the rifle. It was an "early" (stupid) reloading experiment more than 40 years ago.
2. A Remington SXS shotgun. Not my gun and not my ammo. The old paper hull cracked at the rim about half way around. How gas got out of that side by side and hit me in the face I don't know. Caused a small hemmorage on a welding scar on my eye.
3. An original muzzle loader had a hang fire. As I raised my head it went off and I got sparyed all over the face by a rusted out nipple. I had about 20 spots leaking on my face.

At the range I saw a guy's face after he blew a case head in a Herter's M98. He really got sprayed and had 30 or 40 small leaks ....but nothing hit his eyes.

My take on it after this is:
1. Nothing is safe if you have gas get loose.
2. ALWAYS wear glasses.

In some cases I wish that you could shoot with a motor cycle helmet on at least for the first dozen or so rounds.

I think a 98 is one of the better gas handling actions.compare it to a moisin,for example.

quote:

Originally posted by jb:
I think a 98 is one of the better gas handling actions.compare it to a moisin,for example.

How about comparing a M98 to a MAS36 or a 110 Savage? I think there are other things more important to most people.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:

quote:

Originally posted by jb:
I think a 98 is one of the better gas handling actions.compare it to a moisin,for example.

How about comparing a M98 to a MAS36 or a 110 Savage? I think there are other things more important to most people.

ok ,go ahead,compare.what othe rthings are more important.I would like to know.

I got gas in the face from a Mas 36. It was a gun given to me, and I did'nt trust it. I did not have a motor cycle helmet handy, but I dad have a chainsaw helmet with a face visor, wore it over my shooting glasses.

The first two shots were ok, so I took off the helmet. The third shot pierced the primer. I didn't get hit badly, just a little red and irritated on my forehead, above the glasses. I'm glad I got into the habit of wearing shooting glasses.

bja105,
I don't believe a word y0u said.

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
I got gas in the face from a Mas 36. It was a gun given to me, and I did'nt trust it. I did not have a motor cycle helmet handy, but I dad have a chainsaw helmet with a face visor, wore it over my shooting glasses.

The first two shots were ok, so I took off the helmet. The third shot pierced the primer. I didn't get hit badly, just a little red and irritated on my forehead, above the glasses. I'm glad I got into the habit of wearing shooting glasses.

Not trying to be arguementive, but to carry the discussion a little further, why does one spend any time and./or money on a Mod 96? Just wondering?

quote:

Originally posted by jb:

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:

quote:

Originally posted by jb:
I think a 98 is one of the better gas handling actions.compare it to a moisin,for example.

How about comparing a M98 to a MAS36 or a 110 Savage? I think there are other things more important to most people.

ok ,go ahead,compare.what othe rthings are more important.I would like to know.

Things considered more important to a lot of folks: Claw extractors and controlled round feed, hinged floor plates, the aesthetic appearance of a M98, the finish of the metal and the wood, the quality of the wood, the quality of the barrel, the scope ....just about everything else. Some of the later versions of the M98 such as the Yugo version have a little bit better gas control breeching that requires and extractor cut in the barrel. You could modify a standard M98 to that configuration if gas control was such a big deal. No one ever does. No one picks the Yugo just because of it's breeching system.
If gas control was more important there would be a greater emphasis placed on it in designs.
The main feature to control gas flow is good brass and safe pressures.

quote:

why does one spend any time and./or money on a Mod 96? Just wondering?

they're pretty, and when used within their limits, perfectly adequate for hunting, plinking, etc.

like a Swede, a Chileano, etc.

interesting that no one mentioned mauser's infamous eye injury...

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Originally posted by AfricanHunter:

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
I got gas in the face from a Mas 36. It was a gun given to me, and I did'nt trust it. I did not have a motor cycle helmet handy, but I dad have a chainsaw helmet with a face visor, wore it over my shooting glasses.

The first two shots were ok, so I took off the helmet. The third shot pierced the primer. I didn't get hit badly, just a little red and irritated on my forehead, above the glasses. I'm glad I got into the habit of wearing shooting glasses.

Not trying to be arguementive, but to carry the discussion a little further, why does one spend any time and./or money on a Mod 96? Just wondering?

They are very graceful actions, petite and usually VERY well fitted, especially the commercial Husqvarnas. I would say on par with a pre-war Oberndorf sporter ( I own some of both and see little difference). The cock-on-opening feature is a non-issue for most big game hunting or for the average 10-day-a-year hunter.

The “thumb cut†in the left wall of a 1898 Mauser is in fact a patented gas escape cut to vent gases. This cut is patented in England as the 15,233 patent of 1895, German patent DRGM 56,068 and I’m not sure if this was covered in any of the US patents.

Roger that. Its funny but not many people have actually tried to load a Mauser left handed utilizing the thumb cut. Totally useless in that regard if you are right handed (which everyone assumed in the later 1800s and early 1900s that all lefties had been "re-educated" by adult-hood). When you try it with the right thumb, the pad of the thumb tends to be centered on the top round and never needs to clear the left side wall. At least that has been the majority of my experiences.

I might add that the directions for Loading a Mauser in both German and English with pictures show using the end of your thumb. The slot in the side never is shown for loading.

You folks with the hard to find Mauser books in German, is there any info on this in them?

The size and shape of the "thumb cut" serves two purposes, other than gas release.

1. When topping off the mag with single rounds, it allows you to instantly clear a cartridge that has fallen against the left raceway (this should be on all bolt guns).

2. It allows you to load from stripper clips while wearing heavy winter gloves over frozen fingers. It also allows you to use the knife-edge of your hand to push down on the cartridges, should your thumb be injured or missing.

Mauser thought of everything.

quote:

Originally posted by KurtC:
The size and shape of the "thumb cut" serves two purposes, other than gas release.

1. When topping off the mag with single rounds, it allows you to instantly clear a cartridge that has fallen against the left raceway (this should be on all bolt guns).

2. It allows you to load from stripper clips while wearing heavy winter gloves over frozen fingers. It also allows you to use the knife-edge of your hand to push down on the cartridges, should your thumb be injured or missing.

Mauser thought of everything.

The gas release "function" is rarely if ever used. If it is used, it may release gas into you otherwise semi-protected left eye. While aiming a M98 in military configuration open your left eye and look at the thumb cut. It has a straight shot at your face over the bolt stop out of the left raceway.
On the other hand using the rifle as intended in combat the thumb cut is a valuable asset. It was probably found to be an asset from the very first broken thumb nail suffered loading a with a stripper or packet clip going back before the M98.

I have fired M98s in cold weather with gloves and no scope. Very easy to load. Try loading your belted magnum with low mounted scope (in a bridge mount) and gloves in a hurry.

Mauser lost his eye firing a pistol, not one of his rifles. The patent calls the "thumb cut"
a gas relief, but then what did they know in those days?.
Good Luck!

Personally, I really like the full thumb cut on the 98. I think it looks better, plus I find it easier to load a scoped rifle that has the cut.

I remember reading Finn Aagard writing back in the '80's and saying that he really liked the thumb cut on the '98 because it was faster to load. He also wrote that a friend of his fild a thumb cut in a M70 to make it easier to load. Finn said it was now faster, but he worried and would not reccomend the modification because the M70 did not have a guid rib on the bolt.

As for why anyone would build a rifle on th pre-98's they make trim and lighter rifles. I have never built a rifle around the pre-98's, but would not hessitate to do so. I have modified and customized them for clients befor.

Ed LaPour makes a 3 position pre-98 safety that has a full flange like the 98.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:

quote:

Originally posted by jb:
I think a 98 is one of the better gas handling actions.compare it to a moisin,for example.

How about comparing a M98 to a MAS36 or a 110 Savage? I think there are other things more important to most people.

I have seen accidents happen with M 96 (overload), K98 ( WW2 sabotaged round) and MAS 36.
M96 pierced primer, eye injury, gas following the firing pin, exit at the pin nut.
K98, gas vented mainly downward, left arm wounds, metal and wood splinters, slight eye injury.
MAS 36, vented downward, gas retained by bolt plug, shooters face intact.

quote:

Originally posted by bja105:
I got gas in the face from a Mas 36. It was a gun given to me, and I did'nt trust it. I did not have a motor cycle helmet handy, but I dad have a chainsaw helmet with a face visor, wore it over my shooting glasses.

The first two shots were ok, so I took off the helmet. The third shot pierced the primer. I didn't get hit badly, just a little red and irritated on my forehead, above the glasses. I'm glad I got into the habit of wearing shooting glasses.

quote:

Originally posted by ireload2:
bja105,
I don't believe a word y0u said.

+ 1

you can't have gasses flowing at the rear of the bolt on a MAS 36 because there is no opening due to the bolt plug.

Getting gas out the back end of the MAS 36 is less likely than gas out the back end of an Arisaka.
There is just no path except the slight clearance around the bolt body of the MAS36.