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| One of Us |
Question? I know that when you convert a standard bolt face long action M700 to a super magnum, like a R.U.M., that the bolt face needs to be enlarged, you also need a Ultra Magnum length magazine w/windows, and you need to open up the feed rails. Example; You are converting from a 7mm Mag to a 338 Ultra Magnum. You have to enlarge the bolt face, you should maybe install a sako extractor, and you order a brownell's extended magazine. You also have to open the feed rails, right? Can someone here post a pic of what needs opened, and where? I know this may be a guarded "Gunsmith" secret, but some like tinkering with their own stuff at times. I guess I could measure one of my factory Remington Ultras to see what difference it has over the long action. Anyone want to share? The proceedure is mentioned often on here. v/r | ||
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Remington offers the .338 RUM as a standard cartridge in the 700 series and I do not believe that the receivers (to include the feed rails) are any different than any other 700 receiver. Also, the 7mm mag and the .338 RUM have the same sized case head: 0.5320â€. | |||
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v/r I think Rick is correct. Where you may find some differences is in the magazine box and follower which include feeding control bends and shapes. Opening or otherwise modifying rails is not a "guarded gunsmith secret" by any means. It's a gunsmith art and not something to be tried by the amateur. Once you take that metal out it is hard to put back and you might find all 4 or 5 cartridges flying out into the grass. Many gunsmiths refuse to take rail altering jobs because of the pucker factor. ray Arizona Mountains | |||
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The bolt face of a regular magnum, such as a 7mm Rem Mag and the RUM is the same. I don't know where this idea that it is larger with the RUM started, but I wish it would die. Mag rails may or may not need to be opened very slightly. Try it as is and if necessary you can widen the distance between the rails by something like .005" You can do it with a fine file by "draw filing" Some have advocated messing with the feed ramp, but I have never needed to touch it. Remington made the biggest cartridge possible to fit in the 700 action by altering the cheapest part involved, the mag box. The bolt and follower are the same as any other magnum. BTW, I have an early 338 RUM action and it has wider rails and a "U" stamped on the bottom. Whether that signifies it is a different action or what, I don't know. "There always seems to be a big market for making the clear, complex." | |||
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call remington for their mag box... and keep asking for the ULTRA MAG box, not the magnum 30-06, or the 308... you'll have to ask about 10 times... if you get it, and it does NOT have "windows" on the side, it's the wrong box. btw, there's different shellholders for the RUM and WSM cases than the HH case rcbs shellholder #38 for the RUM/RSAUM, #43 for the WSM/WSSM, and #4 for HH cases.. if one would like to check facts, here ya go http://www.rcbs.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=4&s2=11&s3=105 .. here's why the casehead is an interesting thing.. while MOST .532" tools, including bolts, have enough slop for the RUM/WSM cases to fit, the casehead is actually speced "larger" than the standard magnum casehead, at least by spec, but not always the case. spec for the RUM is .539 and WSM is .535 ... I haven't measured any rum cases more than .537 nor smaller than .5335 that diameter is non-critical, as along as only slightly larger than spec, so most HH/.532 casehead bolts will work with the RUm cases jeffe #dumptrump opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Thanks to all. I have the box with window enroute. I was just following up on what I was told. Thanks again. v/r | |||
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I don’t know squat about RUMS or anything Ultra, but I do know that Remington only makes three sizes of bolt faces for 700’s...unless they’ve snuck a new one in on me, which ain’t all that hard to do sometimes!  .223 family: .378“ head .308 family: .473†head magnum family: .532†head | |||
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Rick, No one is saying remington makes a larger than magnum boltface.. but the RUM case is larger than the HH case. The AR cases (all three) and my 257WSM (drawing approved the DAY winchester released the 300 wsm drawing) all use these larger than HH cases. ... but you do know that it's tough got a a .532 plug to fit into a .532 hole, unless in perfect alignment, right? so there has to be some degree of slop in the .532... and the RUM case is larger than .532.. email me your address and i'll mail you a round for you to measure youself If you doubt the casehead,Please follow this link and talk to an RCBS tech on the RUM and WSM casehead diameters http://www.rcbs.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=4&s2=11&s3=105 Jeffe #dumptrump opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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jeffe, do you always take EVERTHING as an assault on you or your credibility? I wasn’t disputing or arguing with ANYTHING that you said. All I was trying to point out was that Remington only makes three sizes of bolt faces for 700 receivers and they also offer .338 RUM as a standard in 700’s, and that it uses the same size bolt face as the 7mm mag...so the guy doesn’t have to open up his current bolt face. If you will notice, I listed the bolt face sizes as those fitting a certain “family†of cartridge head sizes. The case head size and the actual size of the bolt face are not identical, nor do they require a “press fit.†| |||
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 ______________________ Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. | |||
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   #dumptrump opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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With a difference of .002 between the H&H rim and the RUM, the bolt might not be any different between one for the belted mag and the RUM. I mean, isnt .002" less than the thickness of a sheet of paper?! | |||
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Rick0311--that is the way that the big jeffeoso acts with everyone, he has an ego problem. this has happened to me, so don't feell bad, just consider the source. he's like the man in the white house---IGNORANT. | |||
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Do I take that as a yes to my question? | |||
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All of us have ego’s and I don’t believe jeffe is ignorant...just a wee-bit on the sensitive (paranoid?) side at times when he thinks that someone has dared to disagree with him or question something he has said. | |||
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Rick Ask yourself this.. If I had merely said "the RUM case head is larger than the HH casehead" without backup, would you have accepted at face value? From your past behavior, the short answer is no, so I provided the additional data to allow you to find out for yourself, hopefully allowing you a graceful exit from an (in this specific case) an underinformed position. Most people (yes, neither of us know "most" people) require data to change their view points. Since you stated your viewpoint, and I would be contradicting you, I provided links to external, uninvolved authorities in the knowledge space. In gunsmithing, (which is very precise and jargon must be used accurately) which has a certain level of inherent liability, it is generally better to match facts, and when incorrect, stand right up and own that. See the Mexican mauser thread, were I thought I knew a fact, it was challenged with other facts, and I walked over to my shop and verified that I WAS WRONG and then stated it. What you do and how your react to that is your call. Jeffe #dumptrump opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Not that Remington hasn’t done some pretty stupid things at times...but has anyone stopped to wonder why they would design a new cartridge that wouldn’t fit in their rifles? Perhaps they do make a separate receiver with different rails and a special sized bolt nose for these newer RUMS and ULTRAS and such, but if they did I never got “the memo.†| |||
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Rick you find yourself in these situations quite often. Do you see a pattern here? ______________________ Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. | |||
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Ummm, not trying to gang up on ya, but the case head of the RUM is .534". Not .532". It has been documented in reloading manuals, others have posted pics with specs, not to mention I measured my brass too just to make sure. | |||
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Whatever you say El Supremo...Please forgive my insolence at daring to say anything that isn’t in line with your lordship’s etched in stone proclamations coming down from the Mount! You’re right, I’m wrong... Remington designed a cartridge and put their name on it and specifically made it in a size that wouldn’t fit their rifles. | |||
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dempsey one of us Posted 29 April 2006 22:03 "When I'm driving along, I see a sign that says, CAUTION: SMALL CHILDREN PLAYING. I slow down, and then it occurs to me, I'm not afraid of small children." The question isn’t are you afraid of them...it’s should they be afraid of you????  | |||
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That would all depend on what I'm driving at the time. ______________________ Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. | |||
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Yeah, I guess the van with the blacked out windows and the boxes of candy and toys is the one they should look out for when you’re cruising around. | |||
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you don't really need the Ultra Mag magazine box with the windows. The standard magnum box works fine, but only holds two down. The windowed box will hold three down....barely. I have tried Ultra Mag rounds in standard magnum 700's and vice-versa. Never found a combination that wouldn't feed yet. I've even put Ultra Mag rounds in a 30-06 action with an Ultra Mag barrel screwed in hand tight...they feed fine. Rem 700's are probably the most forgiving action around for feeding. | |||
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Rick+data? . . . I don't think so! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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When it comes to procedures, and the Remington 700 rifle, I find myself more times than not, in complete agreement with Rick. You may disagree with his style of delivery, but his advise to those in need of advise is fairly conventional and sound... He is one of the first to offer assistance to those seeking advise concerning problems they encounter. That's more than a lot of folks here do.  | |||
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So enlighten us Mr. Authority...Does one need to open up a Remington magnum bolt face in order to convert from 7mm magnum to .338 RUM? After all, that was part of the question of the original post if I recall. A simple Yes or NO will be just fine. | |||
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Ceg, I built a 300 ultra mag yrs back when they first came out. Bolt face is the same. I built on on a Rem 700 in 7 mag. I started this before Brownells had mag boxes and etc. I had a heck of a time getting it to feed, and only got 2 down. I used std rem extractor with no problems. I ended up using a HS detachable mag box, staright stack, 3 down feed good. They can be bought to cheap to build one. I'd buy one...........No let me take that back, I had one, it didn't do a much for me. If your set on building one, do what Jeffe said and get a box, brownells, Rem somewhere and follower. Rick, I don't recall anybody saying Remington designed a Cart that wouldnt fit in a Rem 700 action. The Rum fits very well in a 700 remington action, buy they also made a follower and box to go with it, my guess thats the memo they forgot to send you Billy, High in the shoulder (we band of bubbas) | |||
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He offers nothing many others on here don't do and they don't whine so much ______________________ Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else. | |||
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I think you might have me confused with our moderator, “whineoso.†Isn’t there some new law that doesn’t allow you to be within a certain distance of places where kids are playing anyway? | |||
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I'm sitting here with a 375 RUM I'm in the process of finishing for a customer, built on a Rem 700 action. It was originally a 30-06 ADL. I opened the bolt face to exactly that as the Rem magnum bolt before deciding which cartridge we would chamber for. And as everyone knows, the RUM case fits just fine. I found it odd that the RUM would transition through the stock 06 feed rail config without any modification. Yeah! The standard magnum box would not readily work with this action. And though I pride myself on being able to make shit feed, I opted for the $8.00 and change microsoft version of the factory box (the one with windows ) rather than screw with a stock box. It worked perfect and with the standard magnum follower, she feeds like a dream. | |||
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I can’t believe this, it can’t be true...You and Billy both with standard sized Remington magnum bolt faces that work with RUM’s!!!!!!!! How could that be???? The case heads are just too damned big to fit, just ask dempsey-dumpster he knows all about this stuff. | |||
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On a serious note, malm...what the hell are those windows on the mag box supposed to do anyway? I mean, other than give the follower a place to hang up on. | |||
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It's a fairly blown out case so it actually gives the wider shoulders some room... | |||
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And just look at all the weight you save too! I just noticed when this thread started that Remington’s web site doesn’t have the parts listed any more. They used to have a PDF file you could down load with all the parts and their numbers and prices. Brownells has a list but it’s not complete. I like to use the Remington milled followers on .308’s and Brownells doesn’t carry them or list them in their Remington factory parts section. | |||
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and now, back to gunsmithing, of course this isn't the only way to do things --- I just reviewed my first post on the subject. If you follow these steps (and CEG already has) you will be able to perform this conversion. In my opinion, in the most effective manner, with correct feeding
#dumptrump opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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jeffe, since you were reviewing posts I’m sure you saw what I posted in reply to you earlier. Please note the portion that clearly states that I was not questioning or arguing with anything that you had said. [quote] jeffe, do you always take EVERTHING as an assault on you or your credibility? I wasn’t disputing or arguing with ANYTHING that you said. All I was trying to point out was that Remington only makes three sizes of bolt faces for 700 receivers and they also offer .338 RUM as a standard in 700’s, and that it uses the same size bolt face as the 7mm mag...so the guy doesn’t have to open up his current bolt face. If you will notice, I listed the bolt face sizes as those fitting a certain “family†of cartridge head sizes. The case head size and the actual size of the bolt face are not identical, nor do they require a “press fit.†Rick 0311 Posts: 4197 | Location: Valencia, California | Registered: 16 March 2005 | |||
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not really an issue in this discussion but Remington makes four sizes of bolt faces for the 700....the 222 size..the 308 size...the magnum size...and now..the 6.8SPC size....and for the 600/660's and the Model Seven from the Custom shop they made/make the 35 Remington size....which is not the same as the 6.8 SPC. | |||
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rembo, Glad to here that they have started chambering for the 6.8 SPC, sounds like a pretty handy cartridge from what I’ve read. | |||
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