[ 06-28-2003, 16:37: Message edited by: Dan@Montana Rifle Co ]

I'll repeat what I said in an earlier post and leave it at that "It is not the policy of MRC to require any re-stocking fees". As to the problem with the button we have seen it a couple of times where the button was sticking due to a lack of lubrication. It is an easy fix for most people.

walex -

I know posting something to you is ineffective but here goes.

I have to wonder if you feel the same way about a car or truck you buy? If you have to take it back to the dealer for some perceived problem in the first 100 miles do you bash the manufacture and claim all of their vehicles are junk? If that was the case Ford, Chevy, or Dodge would be not worth owning with your reasoning. So what do you drive?

If you would have posted your problem then said you would wait to see what MRC would do about it your credibility would be way better than after reading the toxic waste pouring out of your mouth.

Good grief, give them a chance to make it right.

Of course, from listening to your tirades we can tell everything you make, do, or create is an amazing work of perfection.

Remember, he who casts the first stone...

Edited for spelling.

[ 06-28-2003, 22:57: Message edited by: Elkslayer ]

I've been away for a few days and all I can say is "WOW!" This thing is stringing out like a bad soap opera in which everybody is back-stabbing and bad-mouthing everybody else. So who's the love interest in this? I place one vote for Donna Mills.

Elkslayer the Ford Bronco I drive now and the Chev Blazer before that are poorly manufactured junk. I hate the damn thing and constant breakdowns and huge expense when all my buddies driveing Japanese products are racking up carefree milage. We've been fed a steady diet of shoddy junk so long we've forgot what it was like to oun a good '52 Chevy pickup or buy a brand new Win M70 or Savage 99 pre 60's rifle with real metal and quality. I have only to look around the wheelhouse of my fishboat for a good reality check. I have about $40,000.00 worth of marine electronic equipment there. The Japanese stuff works flawlessly day and night season after season and the American made stuff spends a good deal of it's time enroute to Seattle and bake for extremely expensive repairs. my american Sonar has never completed a season and my Japanese Furuno fish finder has never missed a pulse in 12 yrs. Go figure. Why do we put up with it. I,for one am finally getting fed up with it. The American sonar is going over the rail soon, The bronco is going to be traded in for a Honda, and I',m looking at a european rifle action right now, or for an old pre64 m70. W Alex

It seems to me that walex has nothing good to say about anything. I wonder, is he satisfied with the body God gave him or does he think it could have been better designed? No responses necessary-- just something to think about...

by the way, nra life member hd-flhtc hunter instructor elk hunting fool, There's a few of your type of hot-shot weasels running around. Mostly with their tails between their legs, or sneaking around, and if they weren't sneaky or fast enough had their noses and lips busted. "toot your whistle and blow your horn" by the way what in the hell is an HD-FLHTC/ Is every one supposed to be impressed. Walex

Root Beer in a different setting with a different crowd you might find me a totally positive guy. Like your Dad, he has to be an exceptional man honorable and decent and of a type that was rule and not the exception like today in this country. To remember and inquire about the people he knew in the 50's Alaska proves that. He can tell you of a time when the cowardly sneaky weasel who wouldn't know what was honorable and decent or truthfull black or white if it bit them in the backside were in a very distinct minority, not in the majority like now. I'd be willing to bet he knows the difference between a real hero like Sgt. York, Audie Murphy, and the flakes who are looked up to like in your generation. 50 shots with an '06 aint many. Don't ever take any firearm for granted. Don't take any one's word that a little grease on a part will make a gun right. I can tell you I have known or did know a few that were killed or crippled and maimed with guns they or someone else thought were safe. Feet, hands, arms and heads blown off, dead, crippled for ever by a firearm malfunction, in some cases,or carelessness. I've had a blue powder burn on my thumb for fifty years from a worn out gun with wornout parts not holdin the pin back 100%. Good reminder. Walex

Dear Root beer you seem like a nice guy and I been really thinking about what you said about me probably not likeing the body God gave me, and you know there is a few places he could have made some improvements, like maybe Kirk Douglas's chin Clint Walkers biceps, John Holmes plumbing instead of plain old American Standard. But no, about the time I got to where I could start sliding by on my good looks, I got a life long case of pimples. Goes to show you life ain't fair. Then you get old and weak and can't keep ahead of the calories. But it's never too late to get smart. slowin down gives you time to think. ASK QUESTIONS many millions have died and great empires have fallen because they killed the messenger or bearer of ill tidings. Smarter would be to ask Montana Rifleman did they send any instructions, containing such info as lubing certain parts so they would function? Do they have product liability insurance? How much and by whom? I'm the bad here but I used to that. bob Dylan once sang "they shot george jackson down they hated him because he was so real" He told it like it was and popped their little bubble. You go witness in court and relate the facts and one side or the other will try to dicredit you, attack your character because the factual truth is dangerous to them. I had my little bubble popped and hated to admit I was suckered in and played for a fool, yeah I was peed off to say the least. Come on Dan whole truth now you guys covered or not? Walex

walex,
Yes, my father is a decent, honorable, truthful, stand-up man-- I am his son and have learned well the lessons he has taught me.
An HD-FLHTCwhatever is a Harley-Davidson motorcycle of some model designation. The FLHTCwhatever describes the heads on the engine and the rear suspension, I think. Bike people know all this stuff. I'm not a bike person; I think they make too much noise and everybody who has one always wants you to know it. There is some clown who always rides his Harley blat-blat down my road at 0400 in the summers with his open pipes blasting out; you can hear him for a mile or two either direction. He's great for waking you from a sound sleep, he is. Harleys are like dogs: they leak on the floor and ride around in pickups alot. Cheers, mate.

[ 06-29-2003, 20:36: Message edited by: rootbeer ]

I justed posted something and it didn't show up. What happened to it?

There it is; looks like walex and I hit the server at exactly the same time and he got through first.

wal,
I don't know much about Dylan beyond his album of the mid-70s that had the song about Rubin "Hurricane" Carter on it. Who's George Jackson? When did the story take place?

Dear Rootbeer- I think George Jackson was a black civil rights activist who was shot in prision in the 60's I remember the new and the stink. Before then was no big deal in large parts of this country, I remember a guy who worked at the sawmill in Haines AK brag about when he was a cop in Texas shoot blacks who didn't jump off the sidewalk quick enough. Pretty chilling when you are 16. Well I touched a few sore nerves when I rose to the occasion after a few took a crack at me. Someone, perhaps if I push it the police here can find out who, looked up my number here at home, all hysterical like a real pycho, screaming and real nutso wanting to know why I attacked him Was I a gunsmith and what did I know about guns and mausers and bolt sleeve pins. Told him i had the old Olsen Mauser book and that I did know that the pin failed to lock the bolt sleeve. he asked, more or less raving if I knew if all the bolt parts were cast. Told him what the Montana Rifle gunsmith told me about how the parts were made and why it wasn't always going to work so good. What more do I need to know, i want my money back and they can take the thing back and do what they want with it. Please don't call my house all crazy and in a threatening manner. I'm going to look at this as a wake up call. It had to be either Scott, Elkslayer of Jbelk, or Dan. Reading their postings and how they phased their words I think that it was Jbelk, call me what you want on your computer or in person, but don't call my home and scare and terrorize my family. That is a little insane and frightening. The next time the call will be monitored by the police here, and I WILL press charges.

I just read the last post and was disturbed that someone would actually call someone on this board and make threats. I can assure you that nobody affiliated with MRC or Montana Rifleman would do this. As I have stated in previous posts it is not in my best interest or the interest of MRC or Montana Rifleman to attack anyone. We are going to patiently await the return of the subject rifle and have it evaluated by 2-3 independent sources and if it is found to be defective I will personally come on this board and admit it. I apologize that the person that received the rifle was not happy with the quality and was concerned about the safety of the subject rifle. We are striving to remedy this situation as amicably as possible and to the customers satisfaction.
Thank you and Good Night Everyone

[ 06-29-2003, 09:40: Message edited by: Dan@Montana Rifle Co ]

Walex,
I wonder who could have called you. Someone with the time and inclination to call Information and get your number, then place what would have to be a very long-distance call to Juneau. It certainly wasn't me; I'm keeping my order in because I know the end product is going to be worth the wait. If anything, the past few days' postings have "shaken the trees" as it were and I believe that only good can come from it. I saw a post wherein Jack Belk wrote something about a Sako something-or-other; Dan said that might be a good idea. Spirited discussion always helps if the spirit is one of instruction and/or improvement. I believe things will iron-out in a few days and everyone will be happy with what comes down. MRC has had an earful from many posters; maybe they have taken some of it to heart and better things will come of it all. This is my hope. We'll see in the coming weeks and months when the units do actually ship. A good harvest to you, walex. And be careful out there. I've read that commercial fishing off Alaska is very dangerous work; oftentimes a boat goes out and doesn't come back.

[ 06-29-2003, 09:41: Message edited by: rootbeer ]

walex,
I just had a thought: it could have been anyone with an order in who was reading these posts without writing any of his own. He got bent out of shape and shot back at you. We'll never know. Seems to me to be an immature thing to do. An adult would quietly take a decision to keep his order in or to cancel it; he wouldn't call Alaska and carpet-bomb you. My guess is it was somebody with a short temper and too much time on his hands. I have no idea who it was; I've only been posting here since late last month so I don't know who's a wacko and who isn't.

rootbeer,
As I have said I will forward all suggestions and comments to the people who control the design and function of this action and will await to receive their response and post their response when I get it.

I thought you'd packed it in for the night, Dan. Obviously, you think this stuff is as interesting as I do. I'm psyched-up by it all. I'm hoping this fracas results in an excellent piece that puts a Dakota to shame.
I saw the pictures of the action that Jack Belk stoned-- beautiful!! I want mine like that. Is it easy to do? Do the stones take the shape of the part very quickly, then remove material very slowly? Is it easy to screw up? "Screw-up" is my middle name!

[ 06-29-2003, 09:56: Message edited by: rootbeer ]

I do find it interesting, but most of all educational. I've learned a lot over this past week or so. I took over posting on these boards from Rod who left our company after Mel Smart passed away and is helping to keep a phenominal product alive in Acra-Bond Laminates. His words here were obviously more eloquent than mine. His technical knowledge about rifles, actions and other things is far superior to mine but as I have said in previous posts, if I don't know the answers to your questions I will find them. I believe that honesty, above all else, is the best policy. But I can tell you this, honestly, that during this last week or so I wish that Rod was still doing the posts.
I'm not really the one to ask about stoning the actions as I, myself, am not a gunsmith. But I work with one of the best. I believe if you look under the M1999 Polishing (or something like that) Jack Belk was going to post some information on exactly how to do it.
I received calls and emails from 3 different independent sources that are more than willing to take a look at this barreled action. My first thought was to just send it out to Jack Belk, but I received so many offers that I decided that I would have each one look at the rifle and then post their personal findings on this board. Tom Burgess will be the first to look the rifle over, then Bill Leeper and finally Jack Belk. I will ensure that no corrections or modifications are done to this barreled action prior to any of them looking at it. I hope that the rifle arrives this week so that we may get the show on the road so to speak. And like I said if they find something drastically wrong with it, then I as a representative of MRC and Montana Rifleman will come on this board and admit it. As many of you know these three men, they will not pull any punches. They will tell it like it is.

Thank you, Dan

[ 06-29-2003, 18:18: Message edited by: Dan@Montana Rifle Co ]

walex - sorry, twasn't I that called you. And I'm shocked that you'd think it was. Haven't we always been open and honest with each other here on the forum? Oh, how my heart bleeds...

Scott

We should change the title of this topic from UPdate to DEbate.

rootbeer,
Maybe the next update I post will say Debate instead. No, seriously I expect that this debate will be brought to a close in the next week or so. After the barreled action has been checked over, the results will be posted and everyone will say "You know, while this thread has at times become vicious and even personal the end result is that everyone here on the board has affected change in some way". As I said a little bit earlier, I have learned a great deal from this last week and will continue to learn and our product will become better because of it. Believe it or not the staff of MRC and Montana Rifleman "want" people to tell us if they feel something is "just not quite right".

[ 06-29-2003, 20:50: Message edited by: Dan@Montana Rifle Co ]

Dan I have two of the short actions on order, I jumped on the wagon early (Serial #'s 20 and 21) and have been riding on it ever since. I feel that MRC will deliver a quality product and you have shown through your posts that you and MRC are dedicated to making it right and willing to keep an ear tuned and an open mind. Keep up the good work and thank you for keeping us informed.

I know Jack Belk personally and I can't imagine anything making him "raving" or hysterical.

Walex you simply don't add up.

I'd say for the most part we are acting like adults. No one has thrown a punch and no one has threatened to take his bat and ball and go home yet. Good job, men. I'm on a trip to Jacksonville, FL today and will look in on things as soon as I get back. I can hardly wait.
"Courage."

I can't imagine calling anybody long distance....if he ain't got a toll free there's no danger of ME calling!!

And I hate talking on the phone so bad that I seldom make a local call! Regards, Bill

Dan I have a LH action on order and with the 3 experts checking the action over I am satisfied and have fate all will be OK in the end.

Regards Martin

I really haven't seen many posters that have already used one of the other Montana Actions. I am guessing some of the other 1999 actions are already shipped and in use......Long Actions, haven't these been in production for a while now?????

Lets hear from the guys that are using them........Are there any in use?

[ 06-30-2003, 06:48: Message edited by: Agunner012 ]

The Long Action right hand has been in production for some time now, we started shipping them back in January.

I want to know where the action in question is right now.

I have seen a few of these actions at Dennis Olson's gunshop in Plains, Montana and might add Dennis was very complimentary about them. He had one on his counter for folks to observe and play with and it sure looked good to me. One thing I do know is that if Dennis didn't think the action was a good, safe, reliable design and that it worked properly he would tell you so. It probably would be in a minimum amount of words, something like "I wouldn't recomend it", but I assure you that you would get his message plainly.

Walex has bestowed the virtues of the old folks in Alaska as well as some that work with him and I have no reason to question his description or jugement of them. I frankly don't know that much about them. I do know however that you will be hard-pressed to find better people as a whole than most of the folks who live in Northwest Montana, particularly those who have been there for a spell. I have found most to be hard working and honest people that would seem to have all the desireable qualities walex admires in folks. I think he might be presently surprised if he really got to know them. For this reason I am totally convinced that this situation would have been totally resolved if it had been given a chance without all this fanfare.

I agree good constructive discussion is almost always a positive thing but "head-hunting" rarely solves anything and it sure appears to me that this could be the case here. My own order for a Montana PH action with the serial# of 375 is still good, I wouldn't think of canceling it, and I am betting when it arrives and is completed it will be a very reliable tool for pursuing the biggest and baddest creatures that inhabit "walex" land if I should ever desire to do so. I further wouldn't doubt ole walex himself would consider it a perfectly reliable companion to carry and shoot even if it will be "Made in the USA".

walex, may the fish gods smile on you and yours and you have the "Mother of all" seasons.

Glad to hear some are in use, now as one of the other posters said lets see some pictures and customer reviews.........Keep up the good work Dan.................

Walex you simply don't add up.[/QB][/QUOTE]

I think he does. My uncle taught me something last week in reference to someone he knows:

"He is full of whistle steam" The steam that blows the whistle doesn't turn the wheels.

Any guy who (by his own confession) needs instructions to tell him that lubrication might fix a binding part is probably not the sort of customer with whom MRC or any other company can *safely* do business.

I thought I was just checking in to see the status of the short actions I had on order. This has been almost comical :-) I don't know which is worse...a hothead who goes off first and asks questions second, or the others who climbed on and used one hothead's anecdotal story to conclude that maybe they had been "taken" too. I don't know Jack Belk personally, but if never before, I sure have a lot more respect for him than for our new hothead.

Like I said...*almost* comical.
Paul