Just as the title says, I'm interested in experimenting with making my own action.. probably a benchrest style.

What does it take to make one? Does anyone have experience In making actions from zero?

I don't have any experience myself but many seem to think "Building a Single-Shot, Falling-Block Rifle Action" by Walter Mueller is a good book.

Midway sells it:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewp...productnumber=947189

Best to read the BATFE regs regarding manufacturing any weapon components, especially an action.

You can build a rifle or receiver for yourself only legally. If you have a machine shop, tooling, and machining ability, it is not a problem.
Go to the gunsmithing forum on www.practicalmachinest.com and the gunsmithing forum on Benchrest Central and do a search. It has been addressed many times.
Too many good BR receivers are out there. You won't save yourself any money doing it and it probably won't be near the quality that you can buy.
Butch

What butch said.

But the problems arise at the race ways. and keeping everything concentric.

I could be a dick and say start with a chunk of steel and remove everything that is not a receiver. But thats not very productive.

How much machining experience do you have???

My dad owns a machine shop where I have been working for nearly my whole life...

I make a lot of complex very tight tolerance parts on mostly 3 axis cnc mills, and some 4 axis work as well.

I do all the programming for the shop on GibbsCam.

However, I've never done anything like this before. I've always wanted to just never had the time. Plus I've always been worried that I'll do something wrong and hurt myself.. this being a gun part and all.

I would definitely have the raceways edm'd because doing it any other way is a joke in comparison. Aside from that I could (I think) do it all myself. If I can't... at least I'll learn something. I just want to find a place to start. I suppose maybe I could copy my Rem 700 action out of aluminum (ease of machining just to get the basics down) minus the raceways and see how that goes for me. Then proceed step by step until I am confident enough to make a real functioning action....

May I suggest a few ideas for the first try.

1. Make a bolt action single shot.....

2. Make it from 4140 prehard Rc about 36-38

3. make it identical to one you have so you don't have to make a bolt....use the bolt you have.

Let us know how it works out.

good idea

A lot of successful home built actions do not utilize the typical two lug Mauser design, because of the difficulty in machining the races. I've seen several different designs that use a bolt head that is the same diameter as the body. These are typically three or four lug bolt designs, but I don't see why it couldn't be done with two to keep the cocking force down. The lug seats can be done in the action as one piece or as a separate insert as utilized on the successful aluminum BR actions. Use good material, choose a reasonable cartridge to begin with, and have at it.

Because something already exist is not a valid reason not to do it in my opinion. Reasonable expectations should be maintained, but it would be a great learning experience.

You can also buy 80% rimfire and AR type receivers (no FFL) and finish them out at your shop. That would be a little less effort if you're just interested in experimenting. For a normal bolt action, the raceway is the only hard part for someone with typical machine shop experience. I'd say you could do better than Remington without trying too hard.

quote:

Originally posted by Tomekeuro85:
My dad owns a machine shop where I have been working for nearly my whole life...

I make a lot of complex very tight tolerance parts on mostly 3 axis cnc mills, and some 4 axis work as well.

I do all the programming for the shop on GibbsCam.

However, I've never done anything like this before. I've always wanted to just never had the time. Plus I've always been worried that I'll do something wrong and hurt myself.. this being a gun part and all.

I would definitely have the raceways edm'd because doing it any other way is a joke in comparison. Aside from that I could (I think) do it all myself. If I can't... at least I'll learn something. I just want to find a place to start. I suppose maybe I could copy my Rem 700 action out of aluminum (ease of machining just to get the basics down) minus the raceways and see how that goes for me. Then proceed step by step until I am confident enough to make a real functioning action....

Maan....if I was in your shoes I'd be making rising bite double rifles and double square bridge Mausers for myself. I'd probably go broke in the process as I would be having so much fun I wouldn't be doing any business with customers!!

Remember it will cost you about for $200 to wire the raceways. Do you have a good CAD and Solid Modeling program?
Butch

You can also broach the raceways!

Glenn

I saw an add by Horn USA in one of the trade publications awhile back where it looks like they are making a carbide indexible broach cutter that would be just the ticket to do the race ways in a CNC lathe.
I'm bidding on a job with blind keyways, if I get the job I will buy the cutter and see if it would do the job.

You don't need to EDM or broach raceways if the bolt body is the same diameter or bigger than the bolt head. Here is one finished example and another one showing more detail. Scale the action and bolt to your desired cartridge.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.n...owthread.php?t=41684

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.n...owthread.php?t=44046

quote:

Originally posted by Tomekeuro85:
My dad owns a machine shop where I have been working for nearly my whole life...

I make a lot of complex very tight tolerance parts on mostly 3 axis cnc mills, and some 4 axis work as well.

I do all the programming for the shop on GibbsCam.

However, I've never done anything like this before. I've always wanted to just never had the time. Plus I've always been worried that I'll do something wrong and hurt myself.. this being a gun part and all.

I would definitely have the raceways edm'd because doing it any other way is a joke in comparison. Aside from that I could (I think) do it all myself. If I can't... at least I'll learn something. I just want to find a place to start. I suppose maybe I could copy my Rem 700 action out of aluminum (ease of machining just to get the basics down) minus the raceways and see how that goes for me. Then proceed step by step until I am confident enough to make a real functioning action....

Sounds like all you need is a good fully annotated drawing for a reasonably easy design to build. Other than that it is like chicken "parts is parts".

You can build the receiver from aluminum and press in a steel insert for the locking lugs and threads for the barrel.

This is a Charley Williams receiver from the 70s-early80s. I have some steel ones but they are just heavy.
Butch

I like that Charley Williams action Butch.
Can you inform us more about it?

Also, the bolt looks casehardened, is that so?

Not much to say about the CW receiver. It was one of the early BR receivers and was well made. I may have the only aluminum one. I think I still have 2 steel receivers, several parts for them, and some of Charlie's fixtures. This bolt is not for the aluminum receiver. I have the original one with the body made of aluminum. The bolt lugs on all of his bolts are S7 tool steel. The bolt shown is unfinished 4140.
Butch

Thanks Butch. Very interresting.

Butch,
Do you have a pic of the aluminum bodied bolt and how the steel (I hope) bolt head is fastened to it? How are the cocking cams done? Inserts? Seems like a good way to save quite a bit of weight to be put into a scope or just eliminated.
Greg

Greg,
This is a pic of the bolt body.

The bolt body is counterbored and the S7 toolsteel bolthead slides into the aluminum body.
It is held in place by a large roll pin. A round steel cap slides over the roll pin.The opposite end is threaded for the bolt shroud. The cuts are made on the back of the bolt lugs. If I have more time I will take photos of the insert and the bolt heads. I have several of those in various sizes for different diameter bolt heads.
Butch

Yes more pics please Butch.
That S7 toolsteel, is that similar to drill rod or??????

I'm hijacking this thread. Sorry, but thought it give some of you different ideas. I'll post a photo of the insert tomorrow.
Butch

Ossi
S7 is a tool steel (specialty steel) but to say it's like drill rod is to say a car is a car.

S7 is a shock resistant tool steel that is very tough and strong. It can be hardened up to around 55RC.

Drill rod on the other hand is O-1 and is an oil hardening steel and is not all that great of a material once you get into heat treating and you own a furnace to control the soak time.

O-1 is a great material overall in general but it just can't be lumped together with other materials

FYI
These are steels that are included in a group of steels that are commonly called tool steels or specialty steels And because they are considered special they have different properties that give you different characteristics. Included in this group is A2, A6, D2, D7, F2, H13, H21, M2, M42 Not to mention a bunch more that would just waste space on the page. These all have different properties and very different uses.

Thanks kcstott.
But why use S7 when 4130 and 4140 are readilly available?
Better, easyer?
Just wondering.

I don't know the back story but I would reason to guess that's what this guy had on hand. S7 Wouldn't be my first choice for a bolt head but it's sure would do in a pinch.

That said S7 has a quality that may have made it attractive to the builder. Even when fully hardened S7 with deform considerably before it breaks. And not to imply that it is not tough or hard just that when you exert enough force upon the part It will yield before it fractures. Which in the case of a bolt is not a bad thing at all.
Most of your tool steels are not like this at all. A2, D2, H13 will all fracture much faster then S7 under the same conditions. But there again A2,D2, H13 are not tool steels I would select to use in any load bearing part of a rifle.

Thanks kcstott

kcstott
What steel would you use to make a bolt?
Inquiring minds want to know.

Since the bolt needs to be harder then the action You could use 4140 and just have it brought up to greater hardness. I'm also always thinking of ease of machining and retained strength So that pretty much eliminates most of you tool steels right there.

So in order of my person preference I'd use 4140 hardened to 40-45 RC.
4130 in a pinch.
P20 which is a modified 4130 See the pattern here??? ease of machining here is key as the 41XX series is a great material to machine compared to other tool steels.
S7 would be next. And I wouldn't go beyond that as there is just not enough safety for my personal taste to use anything of lesser strength. Maybe in a rim fire but not in a center fire.

Now in stainless obviously 416 is top choice with 420 and 410 being second and third.

Now the reason I would not want to use S7 as my first choice is this steel does not reach full strength and full properties until is is at a hardness of 54RC approx. This is a wee pit too hard for a bolt. That said I don't know what Butch's rifle was chambered for nor do I know what the working pressure is. S7 is in all likelihood fine and perfectly safe. I personally just don't have that kind of confidence in it at lower heat treat levels even though there are more then a few rifles out there built with fully annealed 4140 Go figure?? Now in an action Sure S7 would be fine in an action 8620 is used a lot but it's a case hardening steel and the S series tool steels typical harden with a touch of case to them so kinda the same principle here

!" more then a few rifles out there built with fully annealed 4140"

Do you mean totally unhardened?

How much is that on the RC scale or is it RB?

Yep. But they are home brew type rifles, Home built stuff and if you throw in the older Mausers. 4140 comes annealed but it's still around 20 RC. Not exactly hard but 4140 is one of those steels that is damn strong just the way it is. It will work it just won't last long at all nor do i recommend it

That said if an action is made from annealed 4140 you will in most likelihood experience lug set back.

Keep in mind I'm just trying to pass along info from my tool making experience. I in no way wish to guide someone in the fabrication of an action. I guess you could consider that my disclaimer.
As we speak though I'm flipping through a few books trying to decide if I want to build an action or not. Nothing major just a little home project. But more so just to do it. I'd like to get a set of plans on a double rifle as that is just about the only way I could get one is to build it. Blue collar budget with Wall street taste.

You might get some ideas from this project (not mine).

http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/boltaction.htm

Stryker60

kcstott.
But if you would buy 4140 prehard, say 35 rc, how would it be to machine?
Would you need carbide or could you use HSS?
I am of course not talking about mass production just one of or so.
Thanks again for allt the info.

Same "topic" rears-up approx 2x per year on various other forums as well, which for the time being - shall remain nameless. Regardless of who/where, these posts always seem to simmer-off to this situation:
Thus, one must ask themselves ....
1) How much EXPERIENCE & free time for design/development/metallurgy/NEW machine tools do I have to "burn"
2) Can I justify retooling from a product line of generic gizmos (in this case: loading blocks)
3) When a commercial rifle is still quite inexpensive, can I justify ANY of the above
4) How long before I spend Mega-$$$, & then state: "Wow! I guess you're all correct".

Ossi_Iceland
I drill 32 Rc 4140 with HSS, just slow it down a little and plenty of coolant.
I want to start with a bolt. Less work and see what you can do.

Even 40 RC is not to bad to machine with HSS. Carbide is preferred as always but HSS was making parts for a very long time before carbide was even thought of.

Drilling is just about the worst operation with a hard material and HSS. As the SFM is not the same on all points of the cutting edge it can create some problems on tough material. like 4140. split point drill with 135* tips work great. Screw machine drills are the best if you don't need a deep hole. M42 if yo can afford it.

Watching the speeds and feed, using a good quality cutting oil, and SHARP TOOLS is the key here. Go to fast, or use to much pressure, not enough oil, too many cycles between sharpenings. and the stuff will work harden on you fast. And that might just have scraped the part if not your tool.

Golden colored chips with HSS and up to sparks with carbide

Thanks bglenn and kcstott.
Wery informative.