Heavy inputs requested!

I'm trying to convince my brothers and several friends at camp that the rifling at the very end of the barrel is critical!

When moving from one hunting area to another, most of them insist on putting the end of the barrel on the floorboards of the truck, with the butt resting on the seatback! It just makes me cringe!

I have told them all to put the rifle butt on the floor and let the end of the barrel rest on the seat back! I also told some of them that if I ever loan them a rifle and find the barrel on the floorboards even once, that they will never borrow another rifle from me!

The most justification I can see from their points is they don't want the muzzle pointing at anyone! I say to them, "leave the action open" and of course make sure that the rifle is unloaded!

I realize that in some states, the gun must be in a case, in a separate compartment!

Muzzle up, chamber empty, actions open.

The crown on the end of the muzzle is to protect the rifling. I keep a piece of elect. tape over the end of my barrel and load it muzzle down. I make double damned sure the rifle is unloaded and CLOSE THE BOLT. Not too much pavement where I hunt and it can get pretty dusty.
That's for short jumps. For any sort of long haul of say 30-45 minutes or so, its in a hard sided case.

by the law: in a case bolt open or removed and the ammo in a locked compartment!!!
You bet..
The range where I shoot is nra cetrified with a range master, if you walk in with an uncased gun they want you to have the muzzle down. better to get shot in the leg than in the head "duh"
A friend a few years ago in PA was going to move from one place to another he always put his rifle in with the muzzle down, loaded.
Its only a short trip to the next place??
"well" when he pulled the rirle from the truck it went off no one was hurt but the truck. the bullet went through the firewall through the block and ended up in the head.
long walk home that evening.
Im the only wittness and sworn to secrecy.
He learned the hard way.

quote:

Originally posted by hivelosity:

"well" when he pulled the rirle from the truck it went off no one was hurt but the truck. the bullet went through the firewall through the block and ended up in the head.
long walk home that evening.

I know a guy that did the same thing. He was 8 miles off a paved road at 5pm all by his lonesome. Right thru the floorboard and into the transmission. A long walk out, a hefty tow charge and another chunk of change for the tranny repair. He does things differently these days.

The first traffic fatality I ever attended involved a hunter who was speared through the chest by his rifle barrel when they hit the bank at highway spped. Seemed like a good reason then and still does never to carry it that way.

The answer is to case them and not carry them in the passeneger compartment at all.

I have seen local crash footage that has the barrel of a rifle fully penetrating the chest of a man. Yes, he was dead!

We have a set-up that has a muzzle protector for the rifle....BARREL DOWN for us. If I could show those pictures most of you would change too. The accident was not enough that they should have died like that!

I have an inside roof rack. Works great. Carry them empty, bolt or actions closed. I have a Savage 24 222 over 20 gauge in this setup at all times in the feed truck the barrel is pointed toward the driver door for a quick grab load and shot out the window at the unlucky coyote of the day.

quote:

Originally posted by 333_OKH:
I have seen local crash footage that has the barrel of a rifle fully penetrating the chest of a man. Yes, he was dead!

The accident was not enough that they should have died like that!

How many died like that?

I believe I have heard of one where the rifle was between the man's legs and the barrel went in under his jaw and threw the head and one that I saw.

One other in the first vehicle was somehow wounded by a rifle, but all three died before the hosp.

333OKH: I'm going to suggest that a rifle butt into the chest at 60 miles an hour could do considerable dammage as well, possibly rupturing liver, crushing sternum and heart , sending broken rib ends into lungs. That's provided the stock doesnt break at the wrist and give you a very nasty puncture wound to boot.

I've also seen fractured skulls from the old rear window rifle rack carriers guys had in pick ups. A lot of momentum is generated by a 7 to 10 pound rifle when it cuts loose in an accident.

As we can't shoot legally from a vehicle it's never been necessary to even consider carrying a weapon so close at hand when travelling to go hunting.

Hey Guys;
I know that fatalities can happen with virtually anything!

What I was looking for was reinforcing my comments to those I hunt with!

That is, that the rifling can be damaged when transporting a rifle with the muzzle down on the floorboards of a vehicle and grinding into gravel, sand and whatever else may be on the floor! I believe that if the rifling gets a burr on it, accuracy will suffer!

If a rifle is resting with it's butt on the floorboards and the end of the barrel resting against the back of the seat, I can't figure how anyone could be impaled by the barrel!

quote:

I also told some of them that if I ever loan them a rifle and find the barrel on the floorboards even once, that they will never borrow another rifle from me!

Why would you even loan a rifle to someone to go hunting???

In my opinion, any person who wants to go hunting, but doesn't have a rifle with the knowledge to use it safely and accurately, should stay home and watch reruns of "Friends."

L.W.

Down blows off your toes ,

up blows off your nose !

in northern nevada a loaded rifle in the back window of a pickup is quite common in rural areas, and in some towns its not that uncommon either. why would you even rest a rifle on the seat, muzzle up or down.

A guy that used to work in our office got tricky one day and tried to load his rifle in the truck and slip out to shoot a buck from an old jeep trail...Guess what! We had to order a new transfer case for the $wd. His 280 Rem blew a nice hole through the alum case.

Barrel down. I am not going to have a barrel pointing up towards my face or anyones for that matter loaded or not.

I sure wouldn't want the bare muzzle of my rifle being ground into whatever was on the floorboard. But, I also agree that I don't like the business end pointed anywhere but down. How about a compromise. Unloaded in an open soft case so the end of the case takes the punishment. The lining of the case will protect the finish on the stock as well, and being open (or slightly zipped up) will be just as available. Lots of soft case have rubber or plastic muzzle ends and are lined on the inside. Would that solve the problem?

Why are people carrying a weapon with a round in the chamber inside of a vehicle...muzzle up or down????????

He said make sure the weapon is unloaded. Read the original post again.

I have change my opinion, I always carried them barrel down, but in the last year I have got so concerned about crown damage they go in the truck with the barrel up. Here in Wyoming a rifle is rarely cased and I keep at least one in the truck 24/7, for those I have a behind the seat fabric gun rack, it works good and the rifle can be removed very quickly for a shot at a varmint.

Chuck said that but those yoyos that are blowing holes in their trucks sure as hell ain't doing it with empty guns. And I'll bet everyone of them blamed it on the rifle.

Muzzel down when I'm by myself, down when I"m with a guide who hase more scene than me.

Lean Wolf,

I always keep a rifle at the ready to loan to friends.
Typically these are old hunting buddies, visiting me from out of town, and open to the suggestion of an afternoon in the woods for a decent chance at a deer.
My loaner is a Rem 788 in 308 Winchester. Large enough for any game, and easy on the recoil.

Muzzle up, clip out, chamber empty.

Garrett

quote:

Originally posted by Leanwolff:

quote:

I also told some of them that if I ever loan them a rifle and find the barrel on the floorboards even once, that they will never borrow another rifle from me!

Why would you even loan a rifle to someone to go hunting???

In my opinion, any person who wants to go hunting, but doesn't have a rifle with the knowledge to use it safely and accurately, should stay home and watch reruns of "Friends."

L.W.

2 major flaws to this argument-

1) This will exclude a lot of people from ever experiencing hunting, if they need to get their own rifle first. How do you learn except from starting at the bottom?

2) Even more importantly- This policy excludes you from buying "loaner guns" that you would not purchase otherwise except to "loan it to someone so I don't have to worry about ruining my good rifles". You must not be married yet

We don't really transport guns in the cab much around here, but when we do it is muzzle up and action open. The bolt stays open with the muzzle up anyway. They usually go in the bed with the bolt open.

I still think army. Whether the rifle is loaded or not, you treat it as if it is and point it away from the critical areas of the vehicle. Land vehicles and boats, muzzle up. Choppers and most fixed wing aircraft, muzzle down. Hard to change old habits.

quote:

Originally posted by KurtC:
Whether the rifle is loaded or not, you treat it as if it is and point it away from the critical areas of the vehicle.

I had a roomate in smith school that killed two transmissions in his truck in the same year. One was a heart/lung shot the other was just a winger. Both woonds were fatal, a major artery, lots of blood "Dextron II" everywhere.
I never rode with him. He also broke the front axle&housing on this same 3/4ton Chevy in half. Missed the yote as well.

When I hunted coyotes in school I had a 87 Toyota 4X4 and my Rem700 22-250 with the barrel shortened 2" would fit muzzle up with the barrel under my arm and the muzzle laying on top of the seat pointing out the back window. The butt would wedge between the shifter boot and the seat. With the rifle riding upside down the scope was protected from various articles that would fly around the truck while running HARD. I never had one in the spout, but the mag was full & bolt closed. Even while jumping 30 feet or so the rifle retained it's zero and didn't get dinged up. I haven't found a better spot for a rifle that allows very quick access while the driver has to have both hands on the wheel while traversing rough terrain at very high speeds! Nothing like adrenaline!

Too bad I can't ride around with a full mag in the state I live in now. Too many gun hating commies with a real looser in the gov office. doyle

gunmaker

quote:

Originally posted by James C Scott:
He said make sure the weapon is unloaded. Read the original post again.

I wasn’t speaking to the original post, I was speaking to all the other posts relating incidents of people shooting themselves or the vehicles...and those saying its better to shoot yourself in the foot than in the head!

I think granny from the Beverly Hill Billys traveled in the truck with barrel up.

quote:

Originally posted by GSP7:
I think granny from the Beverly Hill Billys traveled in the truck with barrel up.

Personally, I always had my eyes on Daisy-Mae’s matched set of .38’s, not on Grannie’s shotgun!

Since it is warm during deer season, in my parts, we can hunt in an open vehicle. A 1970 land curiser for us. The top comes off, and the windshield folds down. We put saddle scabards on the windshield and lash them securly. This way, the rifle is aways pointing away . It is very quick to get into action.

No cartridges ever get chambered until a shootable buck is seen. That is a rule that never gets broken. As far as I know none of us chamber a round and put it on safe when hiking.


It only takes a spit second to work the bolt. I can not understand why anyone would put a loaded, on safe, rifle in a vehicle. I have hunted in cold country where we used pick-ups to get around. No loaded chambers in the vehicle, period. It is illegal in some areas. In Colorado you can have a loaded magazine in the vehicle but, not a loaded cahmber. It makes sense. The up side is so small compared to the chance of an accident. It seems pointless to me.

quote:

MARK- "2 major flaws to this argument-

1) This will exclude a lot of people from ever experiencing hunting, if they need to get their own rifle first. How do you learn except from starting at the bottom?

2) Even more importantly- This policy excludes you from buying "loaner guns" that you would not purchase otherwise except to "loan it to someone so I don't have to worry about ruining my good rifles". You must not be married yet."

________________________________________________

Mark, here's a major flaw to YOUR argument # 1. "Starting at the bottom."

One does not teach a neophyte how to hunt by handing him a high powered rifle when he's never handled a rifle before, turning him loose out in the woods with a pocket full of cartridges and a picture of a deer torn from "Outdoor Life," with the admontion, "Now, buddy, there's a few bullets for that ol' ought six of mine, and that there animal in that picture is a deer. See them horns on the top of his head? So if you see one that looks like that, just pour the lead to him!"

No, if someone wants to learn to shoot, and hunt, you start him (or her) off with very strictly supervised rifle familiarity and safety sessions at a range or equivalent, with a .22 LR rifle, preferable a single shot. After enough sessions with the .22 where that person is familiar with the fundamentals of safe rifle handling and accuracy, then you bump him/her up to a centerfire. Same practice sessions.

Also, before turning a wannabee hunter loose out in the field with a rifle, you take that person with you, UNARMED -- unless having already proved himself at the range -- several times and teach him a bit about hunting whatever game you're seeking.

Only then, if that person is too poor to afford his own rifle, you loan him your old beater ought six and toodle on out to the woods to hunt some game.

Flaw in # 2. I do not buy crappy rifles, shotguns, or handguns, to "loan out." BTW, if the person to whom you loaned a firearm has an accident, or shoots another person or person's property, guess who is going to have his tail in a lawsuit ringer?? You, who irresponsibly loaned him that "evil instrument of death!"

Not married? Only 29+ years to a very understanding wife, who, BTW, I taught to shoot just as I described above. Now, she is a competent, safe, firearms owner.

Merry Christmas!

L.W.

This is so easy. Muzzle down, chamber empty, action closed. I carry a round in my pocket to put in the chamber as soon as we dismount and start the hunt.

You pay attention to what's on the rubber floorboard mat and clean it out when necessary. That isn't rocket science for crying out loud. That's when using a pickup.

In the jeeps we have a rack between front seats and both rifles are muzzle up, chamber empty, actions closed. Also have racks attached to each side of the roll bar in the back for the back seat riders to secure their rifles, muzzle up, chambers empty, actions closed.

I usually leave my scope cover on the scope when in a jeep to keep the dust off the lens.

All of the people I have hunted with, including young new hunters, for the past 20 years or so have been VERY conscientious of the "no chambered round in the vehicle" rule. If anyone were to err, their embarrasment when THEY discovered the problem would lead to free drinks for everyone!

Kurt C, you said it!

quote:

Originally posted by Chuck White:
Heavy inputs requested!

I'm trying to convince my brothers and several friends at camp that the rifling at the very end of the barrel is critical!

When moving from one hunting area to another, most of them insist on putting the end of the barrel on the floorboards of the truck, with the butt resting on the seatback! It just makes me cringe!

I have told them all to put the rifle butt on the floor and let the end of the barrel rest on the seat back! I also told some of them that if I ever loan them a rifle and find the barrel on the floorboards even once, that they will never borrow another rifle from me!

The most justification I can see from their points is they don't want the muzzle pointing at anyone! I say to them, "leave the action open" and of course make sure that the rifle is unloaded!

I realize that in some states, the gun must be in a case, in a separate compartment!

Getting back to your question Chuck, take one of THEIR rifles and with a ballpeen hammer and sand paper, demonstrate what could happen to their muzzle in a worse case scenario. Tell them to protect that muzzle at all cost!

In the Marine Corps, whenever we would move from one hunting area to another, we would carry our weapons while "on board" any vehicle, muzzles up and with our hands on and controlling the weapon. If the driver of the vehicle has no one to hold or otherwise control their weapon, then they would be wise to secure it in a scabbard or gun rack for the trip, no matter how short of a hop it is.

I prefer to carry my rifle the same way we used to carry the shotgun in our patrol cars...horizontal along the front of the front seat, in a slide-in case attached to the front of the seat. (These days one should be able to make that atachment with velcro...) Anyway, with a rifle in that position, with the bolt removed, it is safe to have in the passenger compartment, out of sight, and the muzzle will not get harmed. Plus, it's dead easy to remove or put back in place as one exits or enters the vehicle. Just grab the buttstock and pull it out after you when exiting, and push it in before you when entering.

Of course, with a console, that may not be possible, but in the rigs where it is possible, it works fine as frog's hair.

A rifle is still just a tool, no matter how much we love it. We can always replace them if we need to. I can't image putting a rifle in a vehicle muzzle up, even if you "think" it's unloaded. A freind of mine's father was killed pulling a shotgun out of a pickup that he thought was unloaded.

Muzzle down. Unloaded of course! Muzzle damage affecting accuracy is HIGHLY overstated and from my experience, bullshit. Ask Saeed, he did experiments on this a couple years ago where he literally distroyed the crown of a rifle and his accuracy actually improved, as I remember. I did the same thing with a 30-06 that I was going to re-barrel. I sat it in 2" of water for a week, and even took a chisel and hammered a cut toward the rifling on the inside of the crown...no effect on accuracy, still moa. It might have a bad effect on a 1/4" rifle, but not the ordinary hunting rifle. Urban myth.

The obvious seems to be escaping lots of the people posting comments on this.

IF THE RIFLE DOES NOT HAVE A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER WHAT THE HELL DIFFERENCE DOES MUZZLE UP OR MUZZLE DOWN MAKE???????

If your worried about damaging the muzzle don’t put it against the floorboard or make yourself a padded muzzle cover to protect it.

If you want to ride around with a round in the chamber then hopefully something will happen so you don’t contribute to the gene pool and produce more idiots for the world to have to deal with.