Anybody know of any books that show the details of this process or have any pics themselves?

What are the difficulties?

Why is it not done more?

Thanks for all information!

Mike

There is a good pictorial description available in one of the do it yourself gunsmithing books. The conversion is I believe for a short action but works the other way for a long one. When I was in gunsmith school they were usually done in pairs with the stock removed from the bolt and reciever of one put in other gun ending up with one long and one short action. I described this sometime back and gave refs for book. I believe it was on this forum. I'm not at home and won't be till tuesday but send me a message then if you haven't found anything and I will have access to my books.

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
There is a good pictorial description available in one of the do it yourself gunsmithing books. The conversion is I believe for a short action but works the other way for a long one. When I was in gunsmith school they were usually done in pairs with the stock removed from the bolt and reciever of one put in other gun ending up with one long and one short action. I described this sometime back and gave refs for book. I believe it was on this forum. I'm not at home and won't be till tuesday but send me a message then if you haven't found anything and I will have access to my books.

Obviously, cutting away material to shorten an action is possible...but what do you use to add material to the bolt and the action to lengthen it?

One way is to take two actions and make the cut on one in front of center line and on the other behind the center line. Use the two long pieces to weld back to make the long action. If done right you could in theory end up with one long action and one short action.

The Gun Digest Book of Riflesmithing, chapter ten,by Jack Mitchell, shows how to shorten a model 70. Same basic principles apply, but use two actions.

Rick 0311, you cut one action so that the receiver rails are long on the rear section and the other action so that the rails are long on the front ring section. Then you mate the short ones and the long ones together. Same logic for the bolt, etc. Also bolts are easier to come by so more than one could be used on a mixmaster numbered gun. This was done on Mausers and Enfields as far as I know and is the process in a nutshell. Obviously this is a simplified explanation and I sure don't claim to know a lot about it.

It was usually done to make really cute short actions. The long pieces were more leftovers than intentional. Most people never needed a Mauser action for a cartridge longer than the 375 H&H family and that doesn't require such a drastic solution.

quote:

Originally posted by trigger:
One way is to take two actions and make the cut on one in front of center line and on the other behind the center line. Use the two long pieces to weld back to make the long action. If done right you could in theory end up with one long action and one short action.

The Gun Digest Book of Riflesmithing, chapter ten,by Jack Mitchell, shows how to shorten a model 70. Same basic principles apply, but use two actions.

Yeah, I knew about shortening actions...but lengthening them really sounds like a Rube-Goldberg process to me.

The English gunsmiths were especially adept at this converstion in the 1950's.

I have seen some long action conversions, and I think they are beautiful pieces. (I sure there were some crappy jobs done too, but of course that sort of work doesn't stand the test of time)

These were typically done for cartridges like the 375 H&H and the 404 Jeffery, although sometimes for larger calibers like the 500 Jeffery.

It isn't that the 375 doesn't feed from the standard action '98, it's that it was felt to be more optimal in a longer action (like the original Oberndorf magnum actions).

These were pricey rifles, not some Frankenstein's Monster.

I would like to own one someday, but the examples I have seen were all too expensive for me.

Garrett

as for why you don't see it very often, it is because of the work involved and the fact that you can now get longer actions. I have shortened actions (for the "cute factor") but lengthening is the same process-a lot of work! This work does not come cheap when doen correctly. The ones I have seen lenghtened were made to the same length as an Oberndorf Magnum Mauser action and done up for the .404 and .375. Today you can buy magnum Mauser actions, Dakotas, whatever, so there is no need for the lenghtening jobs.

as fo rbooks that show this work, Dunlap's GUnsmithing, Riflesmithing by Mitchell, and The Mauser Bolt Actions, a SHop Manual, all show and describe the process

quote:

Originally posted by zimbabwe:
There is a good pictorial description available in one of the do it yourself gunsmithing books. The conversion is I believe for a short action but works the other way for a long one.

Mike

The book zimbabwe was talking about is probably "GUNSMITHING" by the late Roy Dunlap. Many libraries have it.

Don't forget, changing an action length is only a part of the project. You still have the bolt, magazine, floor plate, follower, etc. By the time you're done you'd have been better off to buy a long action. JMHO

Ray

Everyone keeps referring to books and articles about "shortening" actions and then ending by saying: Oh, you just do the opposite to lengthen one."

I have Dunlap's book, Mitchell's book, Sweeny's book, Kuhnhausen's book and several others on gunsmithing rifles and I have yet to find any of these men even mentioning lengthening bolt action receivers.

Does anyone know of someone who has actually done this?

THe man who taught me what little I know (Guild Memeber David CHristman) has both lengthened and shortened M98's that I have handled. I have personally shortened actions, but there is no longer a need to lenghten them, as long Mausers can now be bought pretty easily.

Yes, it is the exact same procedure to shorten and lengthen the actions. Take 2 actions and cut one action farther to the rear than the other. THen weld the 2 long pieces together to lengthen an action, and take the other 2 short pieces and weld them together to make a short action.

I have read of people cutting an action and then welding pieces of sacrificial actions in between the 2 halves. This means 2 welds and twice the work. I sure wouldn't do it this way.

Marc,

Thank you...it's nice to know that someone has actually done this.

As you, and a couple of others pointed out though, lengthening requires using two receivers while shortening only involves using one. It would also involve building a new firing pin and spring, trigger guard, floor plate, and follower.

I would think that any machinist/gunsmith with that level of skill would be able to just as easily build an entire action from scratch, and to any size he wanted to.

Anyway, thanks for the first hand knowledge answer.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
Everyone keeps referring to books and articles about "shortening" actions and then ending by saying: Oh, you just do the opposite to lengthen one."

I have Dunlap's book, Mitchell's book, Sweeny's book, Kuhnhausen's book and several others on gunsmithing rifles and I have yet to find any of these men even mentioning lengthening bolt action receivers.

Does anyone know of someone who has actually done this?

Phil Fischer for sure. Maybe Ron Lampert.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Phil Fischer for sure. Maybe Ron Lampert.

I don't know that Ron Lampert ever created any long ones.......although he was certainly capable. He did several short ones, and made his own bottom metal and followers.

GV

while this would be a super neat thing, once it's worked out, i am having a hard time thinking of a less effecient way to spend money with a gunsmith....

but might be a ton of fun to do in my own shop....

jeffe

quote:

Originally posted by GrandView:

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
Phil Fischer for sure. Maybe Ron Lampert.

I don't know that Ron Lampert ever created any long ones.......although he was certainly capable. He did several short ones, and made his own bottom metal and followers.

GV

For those of you who may have access to the older Gun Digest Book of Custom Guns, you can see a very good photo of a long action made by Phil Fischer on page 76. Right next to it is a photo of a shortie that he made as well.

There is also an article entitled "Seminar of the Masters" that gave some information concerning Ron Lampert who was (retired now) a fantastic metalsmith from Minnesota. Awhile back there was a real neat article in Outdoor Life magazine written by Jim Carmeichal in which he talked about and showed a photo of a shortened 98 Mauser done up in .250 Savage by Ron Lampert. Exquisite work!!!!!!

Jeffe

There are alot of places that are advertizing these terribly pitted and rusted 98 mausers for a few bucks. If you want to do some practicing of putting two together to make a longer one and putting two together to make a short one I would invest in that project on the assumption that once you got very good at it you would give me a reduced price on making me up a couple of good ones!

Let's not forget why this piece of gunsmithing came about.

In the post WWII era there were extremely few long actions to be had (not zero, just very few).

Sure the Enfields were available, but they didn't have the look that was being sought out in EXPENSIVE custom rifles (including the Rigbys).

By the mid-60's Magnum actions became more readily available, and the need for this conversion dropped off.

By way, I wouldn't mind having an original Oberndorf Magnum action (from the 30's) either.
(Or the money to buy it!)

Garrett

I was under the impression that they could only be opened so much in the back and .375 H&H, .458 Lott, etc was pushing it too much.

Costs??

Mike

You can buy a Charles Daly 375 H&H (or an old MK X or Whitworth) action for a lot less than you can convert and prep a military Mauser. Only thing, it will need some smoothing and polishing plus the Zastava (Chas Daly, Whitworth, et al) actions are opened up in the front, not the rear so aftermarket bottom metal can be tricky. Personally, I don't like the new shotgun style cross-safety in the trigger bow like the Rem 870. I like the older actions with the release inside the bow.

They come ready-made in 375 H&H and mine made a nice 416 Remington magnum. 458 Lott might be tough to get to feed unless you have some one experienced do it.

As far as strength, the Lott shouldn't have any more bolt thrust than a 416 Rem.

Thanks Triggertate!

I know about the others, there's just something about the real thing that does something for me

I like to investigate and study on ideas while projects simmer in my mind...That is what led to the questions.

Mike

I know whereof you speak. Mental masturbation is not idle exercise.