Anybody ever heard of a Newton. A newton is Part Mauser,springfield,m-70,sako. If you're 95 years old and know anything about rifles then it's the other way around. A friend and I got together at a show about 3 years ago and he had a couple of old newtons with him. We looked at them and said, wouldn't it be cool to do this that and the other. So robbed a trigger out of an old junk Dakota action around here that won't ever get built anyway due to lack of interest and got stared with making a newton to fit it. There's going to be changes to the bolt stop and the tange is pre-war 70, instead of newtons old take down design. Going to put a different handle on it too thats going to be a bit farther down the road.
Timan

interrupted threads,6lug bolt,backward front trigger,vestigial bolt handle? & im not 95! best on your new project.kim

you've got more talent in your little finger than most smiths have in thier entire body! thats action is a great concept!

Hi: I have 3 original Newtons & was a friend who
wrote the azuthoritative book on Newtons...Bruce Jennings..."Charles Newton-Father of High Velocity". I know a lot about them...I don't see why you want to alter the action...except for the tang section so its not in take down mode. The rest of the action is just finely designed. Frank de Hass in his book: "Bolt Action Rifles" has a chapter on Newton Rifles..he loves the design & the Newton cartridges. I have a .22 Newton, .256 Newton, .280 Newton, 2 .30 Newtons...the .22 Newton & .280 Newton are custom made on Mauser actions...the .256 & .30 Newtons are all original. They were made mostly in 1918, and the 2nd model...the "Buffalo Newton" were made around 1923 & 1924. The steel in the actions was Chrome Vanadium...same as truck axles & had strength of 155,000 compared to the others of that era around 70,000. They were, in an analogy..the Weatherbys of that era...his cartridges design were the .22 Hi-Power, .250-3000, .25-06, key in the design of the .30-06, as well as his proprietary cartridges...
a ballistic genius.
Any questions, I'd be glad to try & help...but I'm not on internet all the time.
Best Regards, Tom

The reason for change is this. For the Newton bolt stop to work, the set trigger setup must be used.
Newtons sets came from Europe, which is fine.
Average Joe is not going to want to hunt with set triggers. The M-70 trigger is tough to beat when it comes to a good hunting trigger.
In going to the m-70 trigger, this renders the Newton style bolt stop useless. The bolt stop must then be made useable by some other means.
Another thing that I don't like about the ORIGINAL Newton bolt stop is that it takes alot steel out of the rear bridge area and makes for bolt sloppyness when the bolt is all the way back. That requires that you shape the nose of the comb lower and Paul Dressel likes the nose of his combs as high as possible and you cant do that if the bolt is sloppy cause the cocking piece will bang up the nose of the comb, So I've got to tighten up the tolerance in the rear bridge and I'll do that by not takeing all the steel out of the bottom of it.
That's why 98 Mausers usually are looser with the bolt back, it's because the steel is gone where the 3rd lug pocket was into the action.
Timan

Needs a bigger recoil lug under the receiver ring.

Timan,
Great beginnings. Not intentionally highjacking your thread, but...

I have a customer who owns a rather unique Newton.

HIs Grandfather was best friends and classmates with Kermit Roosevelt. He was invited to go with Kermit and Theo. on their famous African safari.

His father wouldn't let him go, because they were going to be gone for so long. As you can imagine the young man was quite upset. When Teddy and Kermit returned, Teddy gave my friends Grandfather a Newton. I have seen the rifle and there is an inscription on the steel buttplate. I don't remember what the inscription said, but it ended with the "from Pres. Theodore Roosevelt.

I wonder what that rifle is worth? BTW, it was in mint condition.

Bisonland,
Are your Newtons shooters? The first of these actions is going to be a 256 Newton, then 30 and 35. Are you making your brass or do you have originals.
Timan

Hi, scrollcut
Neat story, I don't feel highjacked, got a thick skin. thanks I like storys like that.
TI

Timan,

Wasn't there also a Newton patented "leverbolt" that was written up in Gun Digest some years ago?

Thanks for psoting and best wishes,

There could be. I'm not familiar with one
Ti

Timan: My Newtons are not only shooters..but great shooters! I used the .256 Newton on Pronghorns here in Wyoming. Fine cartridge as P.O. Ackley had said. The .30 Newton is fine for anything a .30 magnum is used for.
I get your point about the double set triggers...but believe you are mistaken about the double set triggers made abroad...they are credited to Charles Newton design (Ross Seyfried) among others..and are also credited with being better than the German or European type set triggers as a stronger, different superior design. One of the good points of a Newton Rifle..I like the idea when I'm out of breath hunting...and have normal wobbles, I can get a good shot off using the light set trigger.
I have original .30 Newton brass & also some I made from new "parent" brass. The .256 cases are duck soup easy to make from .25-06 brass. The .22 Newton is easily made from 6mm Remington Brass. The .280 Newton is simply the .30 Newton necked down to 7mm. I, like European Hunters, Ross Seyfried & others prefer double set triggers. You should get a copy of Frank de Haas "Bolt Action Rifles" & read his chapter on the Newton Rifle as he discusses the gunsmith's point of view on their superiority.
Best Regards, Tom

To the poster who asked about the Newton "Leverbolt" rifle...only a prototype was made, 1 only. Newton tried to get Marlin interested in going partners with him in making this rifle a production rifle...but Marlin declined, Newton went out of business & there is only one "Leverbolt" rifle made. Bruce Jennings wrote the article about the Leverbolt Rifle in the 1996 Gun Digest.
Best Regards, Tom

Scrollcutter: Do you know what cartridge the Newton Rifle you mention was chambered for? There was even a .400 Newton that went to Africa...if that one, its quite valuable. If other calibers, still valuable, but not as much.
Best Regards, Tom

I don't recall the caliber, but would have remembered a .400. IIRC, it was a .30 Newton.

Speaking of the "Leverbolt". You can now own it!
http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976667681.htm

I can relate to the the part about hunters not wanting to use the double-set triggers in the field.

I have an original Newton (first model) that is currently on its third barrel. It first had a .256 Newton barrel/chamber, then a Neidner .270 Winchester set-up, and now a Marquart tube in .30/.338 (also called ".30 belted Newton").

The rifle is very accurate, shooting many 5-shot groups of one ragged hole at 100 yards with 180 gr. bullets. BUT, those double set triggers make my firing hand sit too far forward. Thus, the middle finger knuckle is HAMMERED every shot. I wish my action had a standard single trigger of ANY reliable variety. (The Model 70-style trigger sounds great to me.)

Even better I suspect would be that M-70 trigger with a smaller trigger guard that sat a little farther forward at its rear.

The leverbolt is being sold by Newton collector Bruce Jenning's daughter. She also has a big pile of Newton brass and ammo in various calibres, and some additional rifles. I owned a Sedgely Springfield in .35 Newton years ago, weighed around 7 pounds and is probably the nastiest kicker I ever shot and that includes an 8 bore and a .577 Nitro.

Well, for now i'm just going to keep plugging away on these 3 actions until I've got something that I can put a barrel on and send to Paul. He's got the stock pattern all worked up. Right now I'm makeing a broaching mandrel so I can broach the lug ways. I thought about sending them out for wire edm lugways but still can't stand the idea of an interupted receiver ring thread. With the wire process there really is no choice but to take out some of the threads in lieu of the lug ways, plus it takes about 4 hours to burn them in which is total B.S. when I've done other actions in 50 minutes with a shaper setup that's 400 dollars shop time vs. 50 with the right tool. I'll post these up as they come to be over the next 8 months. As I've got other things going on while I make these for the fun of it.
Timan

Near as I can tell that Newton Leverbolt is a buffalo Newton, made after Newton went broke the first time. The symetricaly apposed triggers where buffalo Newton, right? the 30 US government was chambered because all the US G.I.'s were familiar with that round at that point and the receivers of Newton where trying to get more guns sold, hence the 06. More sales,
bigger base, and hopefully better success, to no avail. The outcome was 20/20.
Timan

Hi: I've handled the Leverbolt Newton (Bruce Jennings had it when he was alive). Its like a Buffalo Newton with the opposed double set triggers, except! And this is a big one...it doesn't have the famed Newton interrrupted thread or multiple locking lugs (7)..but a simple 2 lug bolt. Cut corners there. Jennings collected the rifle because it was one of a kind, but didn't think much of it...(neither did I) the prototype, just being an example type, didn't have fine finishing..was a rather common looking rifle...only built to show off the mechanism of the leverbolt. The rifle itself was a poor example of craftsmanship, rather rough. Best Regards, Tom

Hi: One of the resaons that Marlin didn't throw in with old Chas Newton on joint venture building the leverbolt...was that old Chas was a leading edge gunwriter at the time...in magazines such as the forerunner of the American Rifleman. He debated issues with the then LT. Whelan, Crosman, and others in print...and was probably the most savvy, knowledgeable gun guy of the era. He had "protected point" bullets (now the accubond, ballistic tip, etc.) Newton had designed them way back then. Also designed the copper jacketed bullet, where before the cupra-nickle bullets fouled a lot...anyhoo...he was a real gadfly, antagonizing the major rifle companies...like "why don't you make this or do that". This did not enamore him with them, and he was widely read as a technical expert. So, when he was on his last legs financially, they basically said "screw you", Chas, we put up with your crap over the years. The book available from his daughter that Jennings wrote up..basically a compilation of material gathered (as he told me)..is a wealth of information re. Newton...included a lot of his articles & replies as a gunwriter...gives an insight into the developments & thinking back then. His daughter, Joan sells them on www.gunbroker.com.
Search box for "Newton"...titled: Charles Newton: Father of High Velocity". Not too expensive. I got a lot of info from Bruce Jennings from my many visits with him at his home in Sheridan, Wyoming. Some talk he didn't put in his book, as he communicated with ex-Newton employees, testers, etc & got feedback & info there. They are all dead now, and all such info lost to histroy. I have some of it.
Bruce also told me he once had a chat with Roy Weatherby about his multi-lug rifle design...pointedly asking him if he got the concept from the earlier Newton rifles...he told me Roy Weatherby as much as admitted it to him.
Best Regards, Tom

Alberta Canuck: I know of your trigger finger getting hammered by the double set triggers...in the .256 Newton & lighter cartridges, it hasn't been a problem. Actually, I have smaller hands so even in the .30 Newton loaded up to max, I don't get this problem. But I know it can happen & is why Newton had the reverse double set triggers on his 2nd model or "Buffalo Newton" to avoid this
(the triggers follow the curve of the trigger guard fore & aft inside). So the trigger finger pulls the rear trigger against the aft side of the guard & the forward trigger is out of the way altogther.
In issue #204, Nov. 2002, "Rifle Magazine" there is an article written by Ross Seyfried entitled:
".256 Newton Rifle: An American Classic"...one
paragraph he says" ...."one of my favorite things on a rifle...Virtually all Newton Rifles have double set triggers. This distinctly European feature seems decidedly out of place and unwelcome to all but a few of us...Surprizingly, Newton in many ways outdid the great masters of set triggers, He outdid them, not because of intricacy, or sophistication, but because of rugged simplicity. Newton did not apply any of the complexity or frailty, nor did he limit the use of his triggers." Etc. I agree & love the Newton design triggers. I'll take a couple of knocks on my finger any day to have the set trigger feature when I can use it. And in hunting, how many times do you bang your finger from recoil? Not many, & once only if you make a good shot. So, I diagree with Canuck in that the advantages outweigh the faults. I think they are the best double set triggers ever made.
And one of the best Newton Rifle features. So, there, you have my 2cents (& Seyfried's on the subject) Best Regards, Tom ps. I never had my finger banged enough to want to change the triggers!

ps. The multiple bolt lug feature had about 3X the locking surface area vs the standard 2 lug types. There was never an instance of a Newton action blowing apart, even with misuse & too heavy loads.
A strong lug system, and turned with the bolt ala
Mauser with claw extractor too.
Best Regards, Tom

Another tidbit of knowledge...A.O. Neidner once stated that Charles Newton had a lot to do with the design of the .30-06 when he was a reservist with the Armory at that time. It's noteworthy that the .30-06 was the only other cartridge Newton offered other than his proprietary cartridges...of course, you may think, that's maybe because of the '06 popularity..but I think its because Newton was key in its development...we only have Neidner's statement to affirm this...but then his other cartridges look so much like fattened .30-06's (.30 Newton),and the others (.256), .25-06 were based on the '06 case. So, my unhearalded opinion is that Newton did indeed, have a lot to do with the .30-06 design. Best Regards All, Tom

Getting back to the set triggers, I've got a set to work with and look at, they are very well made and simple. The sets I have are not the opposed trigger shoe style, they are the in line twin style. I think I would rather have the push pull style sets, just more senseable I think. I bought enough Steel to make nine actions I guess I'll try a more Newton approch to the next three actions. I'm glad I decided to post this little project, I've learned much from you guys, Thanks.
Timan

Stuart Otteson's The Bolt Action Volume II covers the Original Newton (Ch 1) and the Buffalo Newton (Ch 3). There are numerous drawings and photos of both.

Otteson says that the set trigger designs were the only patented features of the Original and Buffalo versions.

jim

Hunter Jim: You are correct re. patents. Only the set triggers are patented. I forget now whether
Newton had patents pending on the rifles...or he just went out of business too soon...but the triggers were the only patents I know. Thanks for the reference of Otteson's Book...its about the only reference I don't have, including retrieved articles from yesteryear. Is it available for sale anywhere do you know?
Best Regards, Tom

Timan: Re. Newton Brass...Nonte once wrote to make .30 Newton Brass from 8x68S German brass. I've done it...and its a b...h! Not only do you have to trim a lot (I ground off excess till I got down where the trimmer would do the rest easily), then outside neck turn, and inside neck ream. It was the most laborious case forming job I had ever done, and I've done a LOT over the years!
What a bunch of us did (at my suggestion) is to convince a company to make some new .30 Newton brass...I tried Hornady & got a nice letter back from Steve Hornady...kinda not promising anything for sure, but under his consideration...I chose Hornady as they are pretty progressive & Steve seems like a guy who isn't completely into "bean counting" finanaces..but supports the hunting/shooting fraternity. Anyway, I thought Hornady was our best bet as they already make brass like 7.65 Argentine, etc...and hoped they would be encouraged to make at least .30 Newton brass...then .35 Newton could easily be formed too. its still up in the air & a bunch of us who shoot Newtons would really love Hornady if they would see their way to make new .30 Newton brass. .256 Newton would be nice too, but that's easy to make.
Anyway, I mention it to you as a nice letter to Steve Hornady may give him further encouragement..as undoubtably his marketing people need to be convinced of enough demand.
Dick Simmons, who was a Newton fan & writer had
stated flatly that the .30 Newton was one of the best designed, finest American cases ever made.
I've got some original cases, both Western & Speer...but are getting old...the youngest vintage is probably 1945...most probably around 1938 or so. Then, other than age...some are probably marginal as corrosive primers were used back then, and I have them 2nd hand so don't know if they were cleaned good. I've had some case separations from the old brass. I tend to think if Hornady made new .30 Newton brass...it would kindle an interest in this short, fat .30 magnum type cartridge & perhaps more custom rifles made for it. Phil Sharpe listed a .30 Newton 180 gr. load at 3,247 fps with 69 gr. of 4350 in his "Complete Guide to Handloading" Book.
I have achieved over 3300 fps with the 180 gr. bullet & as much as 3500 fps with a 165 gr. I
know I'll probably get "flak" about these claims, but I chronographed them. I can do better with the .30 Newton than the .300 Weatherby I have. Both with 24 inch barrels...original Newton & original Southgate Weatherby.
Best Regards, Tom

Scrollcutter, Roger: Original Newton Rifles in great condition can fetch premium prices...it all depends. What I mean is, even though Newton Rifles have gotten great praise from the pros, experts...it all depends on the market as Newton Rifles are not all that well known...in this respect, popularity wins...for example an 1876 Winchester Lever gun in near mint condition will fetch a high price...whereas a Newton, even though a superior rifle...doesn't have the recognition nor popularity. I've seen really good Newton Rifles go for around $700...but the price should be around $1500. I've seen some go high. Its so problematical with Newtons...if a die hard Newton fan saw a Newton on auction, he may bid till he gets it. If he misses seeing it, it may go too low. Also, even the first model Newton Rifles varied in quality...an individual matter, most were excellent, some not so. The Buffalo Newtons are not highly thought of, and were made with less machining & more stamped parts..and even less quality control than the first model...most are marginal. I have had 2 Buffalo Newtons that were exceptional, and excellent. And only about 1,000 were made...so are more rare. I only have one left & it had to be restocked due to the original stock being cracked too much. But it works fine now, looks great...but nowhere as nice as the first model design, except the reverse set triggers I like better. A big problem with original Newtons are the barrels...the gunners didn't keep the barrels up & with corrosive primers...well, you can find a mint looking Newton...but look down the bore! Hard to find one with a real good bore.
I was lucky to find a new .256 Newton barrel that was never put on a Newton rifle, mint, unfired. Its now on my fine .256 Newton & is a
great shooter, accurate.
Best Regards, Tom

The Buffalo Newton triggers are a different design, geometrically and space-wise, than the ones on the earlier rifles. It would not surprise me any to find that Charlie Newton came up with the "Buffalo design" because of more than one instance of the same complaint I voiced.

I am not numb enough mentally to enjoy getting my knuckle hammered even once, so I just plain don't like the original trigger design. The original triggers function quite well mechanically, but they are a PITA to me, so far as in-use practicality goes. That is especially true as I enjoy shooting all my rifles and spend at least every Sunday doing exactly that.

Those who like them are welcome to them, but I challenge anyone to shoot my original rifle and tell me with a straight face that they enjoy it. Numerous have tried it, and none have loved it yet.

And frankly, I don't give a damn what Ross Seyfried said or says. His articles are interesting and usually well written, but having collected many of the same sorts of rifles he enjoys, some years before he began doing so, I have come to judge rifles based on how well I find them performing, not what some other shooter thinks of them. So, I said what I feel....that I would be happier with the proposed Model 70-type trigger.

Perhaps if this new "Newton" rifle flies and the new triggers become available and will fit the older rifles, some afficianado of the older design will see fit to trade me one of the new ones, for my old original set. I'll certainly be willing..........

Mike Petrov either owns, has seen, or knows of an early Newton stocked by Fred Adolph. That must be quite a rifle.

Gentlemen,

Thank you very much for your replies. It was interesting to see the Leverbolt on sale for the enormous price of $ 100,000 but I guess its novelty makes it very valuable.

Best wishes to all and special thanks to Timan for sharing pictures of his work,

Bisonland,

You can find copies of both volumes of Otteson's books on the used book market for too much money.

I got mine from a gunsmith who had it for a required text at Trinidad (he thought the de Haas book was better for his use).

Before I got a copy I tried the inter-library loan system. Cost me $5 to get a copy for a couple of weeks (that will vary from library to library). You can get a copy and then copy the two Chapters to use until you find the book.

There is some talk of a new edition of the two books, but I think it is just that: talk.

jim

jim

Thanks everyone for good input on the Newton subject. For Vigillinus: Fred Adolf designed the stocks for the Newton Rifles. He was also the idea of the .30 Newton ctg...whereas it was first named the .30 Adolf. Fred Adolf is given credit for getting Chas Newton started as a mentor.
Hunter Jim: Thanks for info...will try & find a copy of Otteson's book.
mehulkamdar: The Leverbolt is way overpriced...Joan Nelson is Bruce Jennings daughter who has been selling off his collection...I used to buy .30 Newton Brass & a Buffalo Newton from Bruce when he was alive...but I think Joan's prices are way high & out of line...I think I emailed her so...I also suggested to one of the Jennings family that some of his collection should be donated to the Firearms Museum here in Cody...it would be nice for collectors & good for posterity...but no interest there. The Leverbolt Newton is one of a kind, that's true...so's my big toe. I don't see any great price rating for the Leverbolt...rarity is one thing...but I still can't see it. Bruce Jennings found it many years ago & got a guy to part with it. I would guess he may have paid $1,000 for it max. It should be in a museum. The only value is its one of a kind prototype...and who knows, many have more money than sense so maybe she will sell it at the overprice. The rifle was built to display its function as a leverbolt...was not finely finished at all. So, even less than a standard grade in finish quality.
Alberta Canuck..you are entitled to your opinion, and I too. I haven't had a problem with my knuckles rapped by the double set newton triggers & I've shot my .30 Newton many times as well as a .35 Newton with the same triggers. I know it can happen, as I shoot with the ball of my finger I'm not wrapped up inside the trigger guard much...I think its an indivual matter & agree the reversed double set triggers are a better rig. I have found Seyfried a bit off in some of his writings...including the Newton article he wrote...but I quoted him as I agree with his liking of the double set triggers.
Thanks again, everyone for some good input on this topic. Aloha, Tom

Who is the new guy that is coming out with the Newton Lever rifle?
Butch

Butch: The "new guy" who is making the new Newton Leverbolt Rifles is a Master Gunsmith from Belgium,
Harald Wolf. He is also known for publishing the
"Hatari Times" African Hunting mag.
He will be shoing them off at the SCI Convention this year, will have his own booth. His rifles are very high quality, hand made...he had them there last year. He uses Newton's Leverbolt design,the only real difference is he has a neater bolt handle that is vertical to the bolt body when cocked. Newtons had a slight angle, but it all is the same except for some 'dressing it up".
Best regards, Tom

LOL

2006
Jan 09
Jan 10

quote:

Originally posted by Nomo4me:
LOL

2006
Jan 09
Jan 10

Necro-posting.

Very nice to read about Newtons again..

I just aquired a 1 st Generation .256 That has been rebored and rechambered in the .30-06.
Mine has the blot mounted peep on it,and is serial Number 39X. Proud to have it in my collection.


Cal30