Rick 0311

This site is very pro CRF etc. and Rem 700 and Wby Mark V is approaching leprosy (spelling)

But the facts are that the Gunsmithing forum rarely has posts on malfunctions from either Wby Mark V or Rem 700.....that is reserved for the CRF actions

I don't personally like Rem 700s and the rivoted extractor on the magnum bolt face causes me to break out in hives. I don't like the way the bolt handle is put on and would prefer if the bolt handle is separate then it should be a ring around the bolt. But having said that I have not seen a Rem 700 bolt handle fall off or a Rem 700 extractor break. I would guess that the incidence of Rem 700 bolt handles falling off and Rem 700 extracttors breaking is a microscopic number comapared to feeding problems with CRF.

BUT what I have seen a couple of times is where the Rem 700 extractor sits a bit low and the vertical section of the extractor tries to engage the case rim. A new extractor does not fix the problem as the problem is coming from the shape of the bolt face counterbore. I suspect this problem is the reason for the fitting of the Sako style extractors to Rem 700s

On the sublect of brazing, my father was a motor mechanic and I grew up with all that sort of stuff. I can braze, weld, silver solder myself but only at a very amateur level. But brazing compared to lead solder and silver solder is like a 460 Wby compared to a 243.....a different world. HOWEVER, it is still a bit like "glue" and if you start a tear in the joint then I think its strength compared to welding goes way down.

I think you mentioned earlier in the thread that if brazing means the joint is 3 times as big as the thickness of the metal joined???...I don't know the numbers but I do know what you are saying is correct in principle....that is, the two joined metals will bend etc before breaking the braze.

If we have two strips of steel that are 1 inch wide and a 1/4" thick and 1 foot long and we braze them together for a length of 1 inch, then I think that will be stronger than welding them together over a 1 inch distance. My guess is that if done properly the brazed on Rem 700 bolt handle will be a stroner join than if the bolt handle was welded to the bolt.

Mike

As it was explained to me, brazing and soldering are technically considered an adhesion process since the base metals are not melted but rather molecularly bonded with the filler metal.

As far as the old CRF vs PF goes, I believe that it also gets blown waaaaaay out of proportion, on both sides, based on real world instances.

About the only guys I know that have had major feeding problems with CRF actions are those that convert to a caliber the action wasn’t originally designed for and they don’t have their actions set up properly to handle the new sized and shaped cartidges. Once they get that problem worked out their rifles feed just fine.

Kind of like sticking a big hot cam in your car but leaving the little carburator and single exhaust pipe on it expecting to have better performance.

One thing all of us on here have in common is our love of firearms and shooting...and that alone is enough to come together on most times.

Geez..... if you folks had instead spent the time sending letters to Remington encouraging them in a positive way to increase the quality of the process they use for attaching bolt handles this thread may not be necessary in the future. And while you are at it encourage them to re-engineer their extractors a bit. Remington makes a simple but decent bolt rifle with a good, adjustable, crude trigger. They generally shoot well and most people never have any problems with them if they keep the bolt face clean. A lot of effort is spent bashing various bolt guns on these forums. If we want better firearms then we are going to have to be willing to pay for better manufacturing processes. But more important than that is communicating to the manufacurers what we want and are willing to pay for. It takes a lot of public input to override the bean-counters that unfortunately make too many decisions at companies these days.

I would like to see the bolt-action product improve the way the 1911 clone product has done lately. You get more and more features at lower prices without needing to pay a custom gunsmith to do the work.

I was looking at a CZ 550 bolt gun this weekend at a grand opening of a new Sportsmans Warehouse. A nice square bridge Mauser with integral scope bases, nice shape stock, nice wood, and very decent fit and finish for a good price. I think Winchester and Remington has been sitting on their asses lately and have not dome much to improve their bolt guns. Instead they have been increasing sales with the NEW CARTRIDGE game. Got to have a new wiz bang short magnum that does the same job as existing cartridges. American gun buyers are not picky enough or vocal enough in the right way.

Leonard,
FWIW I had an almost identical experience to yours two years ago. I had a .308 VSS that had been set back and rechambered. I pulled the handle off. The main difference was that part of my bolt handle stayed attached to the bolt body. The fracture plane looked gross. I had my smith clean up the bolt body and Tig weld on a Billingsley & Brownell bolt knob (about ten bucks from Brownells) and do the Sako extractor mod at the same time. I stayed with the original bolt because the rifle is so accurate. I don't know brazing from bustieres or welding from wookies, but it has done fine ever since. I wouldn't bother with Remington; they will take your bolt with the $120.00 extractor job on it. The Holland extra long bolt feels good in my hands also. He does a good job of installing them as well.

Do send a picture and description to Remington.

If you have them replace the bolt you will never really trust it.

Welcome to AR.

lawndart

quote:

American gun buyers are not picky enough or vocal enough in the right way.

Actually it goes further than that......they will defend what is shit.

Whether it be America or Australia (and I am sure other countries) there is a great desire to support and defend certain brands and the same goes for political parties.

Mike

Can’t speak for others but if anyone can find a post I have ever made on AR where I “trashed†a particular brand of rifle I will buy them a case of ammunition of their choice.

I have defended certain brands when I felt the argument against them was unfounded or silly, but I have never felt the need to trash anyone’s choice in rifles...and I think those that do are just a bit full of themselves.

Some of the posts above seem like practice for a job as a gun writer.

The Remington design has some good points and some bad. Over the years the rifle has not improved except in it's stock. The good points are just cheap accuracy and the bad are reliablity and safety problems.

Another bad feature of the Remington 721/700 series is that they have the look of low rent construction and design. Now that's my opinion and others seem attracted to it.

In my experiance the Remington design's bad points far outweigh its good for hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
Matt,

“Professional“ just means you get paid for it, doesn’t mean you’re any good at it!

I was taught that "Professional" just means that you are better at hiding your screwups!

P.S. It's "Mark"

quote:

Originally posted by Mark:

quote:

Originally posted by Rick 0311:
Matt,

“Professional“ just means you get paid for it, doesn’t mean you’re any good at it!

I was taught that "Professional" just means that you are better at hiding your screwups!

P.S. It's "Mark"

That, too Mark!

I just like being a plain old schmuck...I’ll leave the “professional†and “expert†monickers to others.

I spoke to Remington today and was very pleased by their response...no questions, just "ship us the rifle and we will fix it".

But, I have decided to have it drilled and tapped instead...of course Remington won't do that...which is understandable. HD Rifles of Del Rio, TX will have it done in about two weeks. And I don't have to ship the entire rifle to them. Thanks to all who responded.

quote:

Can’t speak for others but if anyone can find a post I have ever made on AR where I “trashed†a particular brand of rifle I will buy them a case of ammunition of their choice.

I can, I think Winnies suck when it comes time to find parts for them. I never could find an ejector for an old model 25 shoot gun.

quote:

The Remington design has some good points and some bad. Over the years the rifle has not improved except in it's stock. The good points are just cheap accuracy and the bad are reliablity and safety problems.

Another bad feature of the Remington 721/700 series is that they have the look of low rent construction and design. Now that's my opinion and others seem attracted to it.

In my experiance the Remington design's bad points far outweigh its good for hunting.

What I find interesting on these forums is that if a CZ or M70 big bore is splitting the stock, not feeding and whatever then it is taken to the gunsmith and all is acceptable.

If the Rem 700 bolt handle is a worry then they can be attached with screws and if the extractor is a worry then a Sako style extractor can be fitted.

The Rem 700 has the biggest recoil lug in the business and the tang sits on top of the wood. You can buy HS Precision in line feed magazines for them which will shit all over a staggered feed CRF for feeding reliablity.

Personally, I dislike Rem 700s a lot but I can't deny the facts.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by joecool:

quote:

Can’t speak for others but if anyone can find a post I have ever made on AR where I “trashed†a particular brand of rifle I will buy them a case of ammunition of their choice.

I can, I think Winnies suck when it comes time to find parts for them. I never could find an ejector for an old model 25 shoot gun.

You’re saying that I said that? Please direct me to that post.

No Rick, your taking it in the wrong context. You said that you never bashed another gun. And I am saying that "I WILL". Sorry if you got that impression.

quote:

Originally posted by joecool:
No Rick, your taking it in the wrong context. You said that you never bashed another gun. And I am saying that "I WILL". Sorry if you got that impression.

Sorry, but I don’t know how else I could have taken it? I asked if anyone could find a post of mine...and you answered “I can�????

No big deal!

Sell it for scrap and buy anything but Remington. I've never owned an Remington (and never will), but every one I've ever handled felt cheap.