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I bought a custom rifle that came with a complete set of Conetrol rings and bases mounted on the rifle. I had to disassemble the rings to mount a scope and the re-assembly was a bear. The screws on the underneath side and there is an absolute minimum of clearance between the hex-wrench and the rifle, making mounting the scope a real bear. I really don't want to fool with this Conetrol base-ring assembly again and I was wondering if I can substitute Leupold rings for the Conetrol rings while still utilizing the Conetrol bases. This would put the screws on top where they would be easy to get to. Is this possible, would the Leupold rings fit? Thanks. | ||
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wouldn't bet on it. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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I don't know about that, but you could probably sell the bases and rings as a set with enough to get the leupold set and have some leftover. I mounted a set on my mom's set for her, I do remember they were a pain, but damn pretty! Red My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them. -Winston Churchill | |||
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There is a lot of tolereance stack somewhere along the way with Conetrol and/or Leupolds. I have had some where Leupy rings would work, and some that wouldn't. I hate control rings/bases for the reasons you described. Spend a few bucks on some Talley's and don't look back. | |||
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Man, what in the heck are you and "wahoo" talking about?!?! Conetrol rings are held to the bases by two opposing cone screws. Leupold makes a bunch of different style rings, but not one that I would imagine would fit a Conetrol base. Which Leupold rings are you two thinking might fit a Conetrol base? Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Conetrol also make Horizontally split rings, they are specifically made to fit the Conetrol bases that you wish to retain. | |||
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Guys, it sounds like his problem is with the clamp screw on the bottom of the ring, not the base screw. My question: how can there be a clearance problem between this screw and the rifle, when this screw is accessed after the scope is removed from the rifle? Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Jbrown, you may have answered your own question on the clearance issue. The Dual dovetail will fit in a conetrol base, and SOMETIMES lock down with the set screw. Having the 'split' through the rings 'stud' makes them vary quite a bit in how the take up when the set screw is tightened down in my opinon--which is also one of the reasons that vertically split rings like Talley's are a notch above in simplicity and functionality. If you are a conetrol fan so be it, but they are a PITA by most reasonable persons standards! I will say that I think they are handsome, but so are S&K's another PITA design..... | |||
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If you want the Conetrol "look" and strength, I believe, then buy S&K. A better mousetrap.  | |||
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I have to agree. They are a pain to install. However I've had a set in place for almost 30 years until I pulled them to have the rifle reblued. So to me they look sharp and one time every 30 years is not that big of a deal. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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Here are a couple of pics of the Conetrol HSH rings. I have no idea if you could put them in a Leupold base or not. BTW, I've never used Conetrols "regular" mounts but I can say these aren't very simple. They take three different allen wrenches to install and one of them is a specialty wrench! God bless the old guy for making them though. These are the only ones I could find to clear the bolt handle on a BRNO 21H.   Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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No, I'm not a Conetrol guy, but I do think they are great. I, myself, am a Buehler guy. And like Ramrod with his Conetrols, I will admit that Buehlers are a PITA to install. But once done, the are very solid. Now this might not work for the guys who like to pay musical chairs with their scopes, but it is fine for me because I want them to stay put once mounted. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Good point, and they are damn handsome! I dont like to move my scopes around a lot, but I do like them easier to mount than my conetrols (and S&K's) were! PS Terry, Talley bases and rings would clear that bolt handle cleanly, just FYI | |||
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It's BRNO 21H, it uses CZ550 style rings and talley doesn't make a base for it. The Talley CZ rings are too short. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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My bad Terry, I thought the BRNO used the regular screw down bases--I could of sworn I put a set on one once....but Johnathan is quick to use a mill or a drill press, so he could have mille/drilled/and tapped his receiver too!  | |||
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I am pretty sure I have seen a BRNO or two with screwed in bases? | |||
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I have always wondered what the fuss is all about. Ok, maybe they are a PITA, but so are Talley/Warne and those fn little springs. I'm curious, how many times do you change rings or scopes? Weekly? Monthly? Crock of shit if you ask me. I would think that when you put on arguably the most important accessory on a rifle ie its sighting mechanism, you would want to actually take your time and do it correctly. But I guess I am just more thorough than the complainers..... There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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Boxhead, do a little research on the BRNO 21H. It has integral mounts just like a CZ550. NOBODY except Conetrol that I'm aware of makes a base for this action. Yes, I'm sure I could drill some holes in the action and have bases fitted. I could also change the bolt handle and that would open up a lot of options. The problem with that is this is a pristine 100% correct BRNO 21h that's worth a lot of money and instantly worth a lot less if I use a drill or hacksaw on it. These are only mounts made today that will work on a un-altered BRNO 21h. Warren made some vertical split super high CZ Premier rings at one time but not anymore. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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I believe that you could order a scope for the 21H right from the factory. The rings and "bridge" from front to back rings where part of the scope tube, put on and "soldered" together during assembly. This feature also made removing the scope very easy to allow using the iron sights. This option was not oredered very often as I have not found many others, I feel fortunate to have one such rifle. The conetrol mounts are a pain but if you want that factory look there are not many if any other options, perhaps this is what the previous owner was attempting to do. Should anyone wish to see the rifle with scope > Nitroexpress > Mauser Photos and Archive > Mauser pics by John303 on the second page. FWIW --- John303. **It would be a shame to drill holes etc. when there are still other options. ** | |||
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I owned 1/2 of one of those factory mounts years ago on a BRNO 21h I bought. The previous owner had it rigged up to hold Leupold duel dove tail rings. It looked like Fido's back side  I've got another 21h that's no longer original. It has one of the Zeiss/Jena scopes in a ZKK mount that was originally made for BRNO 602 rifles. It's a pretty sweat setup. You have to alter the bolt handle to use it though. That rifle had been cut on before I bought it so it didn't bother me to alter it. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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That is interesting, but I am having trouble understanding how the Conetrol base screws could lock the Leupold Dual Dovetail ring stud into the base. What does the Conetrol base screw "bite" into on the ring's dovetail stud? Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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Sure, they are a difficult mousetrap, but they hold like a vise and look sweet. The only PITA is the little screws that hold the rings together for pre assembly on the high end rings. I let my wife help with the last set, better eyes and steadier hands. The quality of those rings is outstanding by any measure. Earl.  | |||
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Damn, Big Earl, but I do love the wood on that rifle. Checker that right, and I will be an even bigger fan.  The Conetrols are perfect too, BTW.  Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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See-through mounts for Brno 21/22. I was told they were actually made by Brno but can't confirm:  NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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I know they are as scarce as hens teeth, but Thomas Burgess made a set of ring/bases specifically for those BRNO's. (I owned a pair once). Somebody should make those again. | |||
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Somebody does, but like the Talley's they are too low for this rifle. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Warne Premier medium height on a ZKK601. Way too low for a 21/22, same with their high rings, the bolt stem sticks out too high, the reason you see so many 21/22s with modified bolt stems. This is also a problem on ZG47s, but not as big a problem as with 21/22s.  Bottom rifle, ZG47 with Warne Premier detachables, medium height:  NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Once again you guys are forgetting there are other ways to mount rings on a rifle. I'm not trying to plug my name but I'm sure there are others who custom make bases that would dovetail mount to the action. It's not hard to do. Just expensive I really need to build a fixture for my own scope rings then you guys will quit complaining of not have bases or rings for this rifle or that.. www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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Kerry, It’s classier to make custom mounts for Conetrol rings. I made these for my deer rifle. Earl.  | |||
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B. E. Beautiful scope mounts. Gorgeous rifle!! Did you also do the stockwork on it? Checkering? | |||
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That can be done too. And Earl... That is one beautiful rifle great work www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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Nice custom bases and nice rifle. Much more difficult with any Brno or CZ due to their parallel dovetail receivers and recoil lug indention on the bridges. Drilling the receiver is not a good option on any Brno or CZ. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Whoa, I didn't forget anything  . I have a safe full of rifles with custom mounts and am fully aware that is another option.The problem is with the BRNO type receiver you would have to build the base that would "clamp" to the receiver just like the Conetrols do since the rings aren't going to. I can't imagine that being anymore pleasing to the eye than what I already have. One thing most people are forgetting when they suggest and show pictures of thier custom bases is this is a flat top receiver with no holes in the top and the idea is not to modify it! A set of custom bases aren't going to look like the sleek ones on other rifles.  I have also thought about buying a few M98 bolts and finding one that headspaces correctly and having a low profile handle welded on. Then I would have a lot of different options when it came to mounts. You could simply swap bolts and the rifle would stay all original. This might still be a problem considering that I don't want to cut a relief in the receiver or the stock for the handle so I'm not sure if this is a viable option or not. Now a custom set of rings that would clear the handle and mount directly to the receiver would be the answer! Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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This is why I don't want to "modify" it. It's unmolested and in excellent condition. They just don't build them like this anymore.   Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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If I was willing to cut on it the options would be endless.   Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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For you guys with problem Brnos, I have a suggestion; I haven't measured but I'll bet that the factory Sako rings could be readily modified to work on the wider dovetails, and a suitable projection could be fabbed as a recoil abutment. Yes, the Sakos are made for tapered dovetails but it's also true that they will work just fine on straight ones, and are easily altered to fit almost any width. Plus, they are also adjustable for windage! Regards, Joe __________________________ You can lead a human to logic but you can't make him think. NRA Life since 1976. God bless America! | |||
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I have to disagree. If I had the action in hand I could without a doubt make a set of bases that would not only fit the original dovetail but clamp on it as well. and all the while being as sleek and trim as a bolt on set of customs. Now there would be a small line on the bases but that can be hidden. Never doubt the ingenuity of a good machinist. The real question is would you be willing to pay for a set. Sight unseen and not getting into the detail of the base there may be a lot more then meets the eye and therefore a lot more that needs to come from the wallet. Custom set of rings would be easier on me and your wallet www.KLStottlemyer.com Deport the Homeless and Give the Illegals citizenship. AT LEAST THE ILLEGALS WILL WORK | |||
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I'll call you tomorrow. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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nothing like the s&k kontour  | |||
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Isn't that strange. The stuff that people want and covet isn't built anymore. [QUOTE]The real question is would you be willing to pay for a set[QUOTE] Or maybe you should pay Terry for the use of his action to make your first set. | |||
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