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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted
...you shim the rear of the scope up, correct?

Still several inches low at 50, and I have no more up adjustment.


Mike

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10134 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
I prefer to cut the bottom of opposite base over shimming either base.
Don
 
Posts: 1085 | Location: Detroit MI | Registered: 28 March 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
that is not an option for me in the timeframes, I have.

The question I am asking is shimming the rear base up, the right direction? It would seem to lower the front lens, which means I now have to "tilt" the bbl upward.


Mike

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10134 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Mike,

You may want to rotate your scope 90 degrees and use your windage for elevation. As most scope have more side to side than up and down. I have did that a few time.


Relive your memories take a kid hunting and fishing
 
Posts: 153 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 28 April 2013Reply With Quote
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Picture of ted thorn
posted Hide Post
I believe your on the right track Mike

Burris Signature rings might be a quick fix


________________________________________________
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Acepting all forms of payment
 
Posts: 7361 | Location: South East Missouri | Registered: 23 November 2005Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
i think i'd do some measuring- running out of adjustment at 50 yds seems like either bad rings or bases or something mismatched
 
Posts: 13461 | Location: faribault mn | Registered: 16 November 2004Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
Mike here is a link to a good article on it;

http://madogre.com/?p=1013

Something not right with the setup.

You might try taking the ring/bases completely off and pitting them back on. Grease, oil, cosmoline etc. may be taking up the space that the twist in base fits in.

If you have a bore scope look and see where it is at before you do anything and then look again after you make the changes.

When we were out at the range the scope looked like the front of the scope was pointing up ever so slightly. Might trying putting a level on it.

My guess is that one of the mounts is not seated/mounted properly.

Had a great time visiting with you Saturday!!

shane
 
Posts: 1464 | Location: Southwestern Idaho, USA!!!! | Registered: 29 March 2012Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
All,

It is an over/under Vernon Carey express rifle.

Not a lot of options for the rings.

Rear ring is a custom clamp with large knurled nut to tighten the clamp.

The only near term fix is a shim.

Shane & Ted - thanks for the helpful answers.


Mike

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10134 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of sambarman338
posted Hide Post
Whatever you do, shim or mill enough to get the reticle back in the middle of its adjustment travel, for a bit of optical integrity. Leaving it near the edge can result in poor groups and possible misses from bad head position.
 
Posts: 5095 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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Can you describe the scope? I run into this occasionally and certain brands of scopes or scopes mounted very high have this problem. Switching scopes has corrected the issue many times. The problem with shimming is that the scope tube will no longer lay level in the rings and be pinched between the edges. Without shimming, are your rings dead level with each other?
 
Posts: 3780 | Location: SC,USA | Registered: 07 March 2002Reply With Quote
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Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
Mike,
fastest way - 3 layers of coke can under the back of the scope, and you WILL likely get ring marks from this.. its sharp and patient -- I use scissors to cut them... ]


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 39665 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
If you have them, it might be wise to check the ring alignment with alignment bars.

If the rings are parallel and in line as they are today, shimming will take them out of alignment and you will put ring marks in your scope tube. Or possibly damage the scopes internals.

Shimming should only be done to align the rings, but not to add elevation for the above mentioned reason.

What king of bases does that rifle have?

Jeremy
 
Posts: 1480 | Location: Indiana | Registered: 28 January 2011Reply With Quote
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Picture of loud-n-boomer
posted Hide Post
I have used shims made from plastic milk carton inside the scope rings against the scope. I put one on top of and one on the bottom of the scope in the front ring, and one on top and two on the bottom of the rear ring. The plastic deforms enough to minimize ring marks, and also grips the scope tube. If you are worried about the white line from the edge of the plastic, clean it with alcohol and use a black sharpie to color it.


One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know. - Groucho Marx
 
Posts: 3835 | Location: Eastern Slope, Colorado, USA | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
If it were me, I would surface grind the action so its square to the world..if your off that much at 50 yards, something is wrong with the action or bases and the action is more suspect. I center the scopes adjustments to dead center, giving me a lot of adjustment up and down..then fit the scope to the action and a square proper action is where I start..A proper surface grind costs about $50. plus blueing the action body. Be sure the smith knows how to surface grind an action, many do not!


Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120

rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
 
Posts: 42158 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
Ray,

Appreciate the comments but it is an over/under express rifle.

I don't think surface grinding is an option Smiler


Mike

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.



What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10134 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Big Wonderful Wyoming
posted Hide Post
A piece of tin can works pretty well as a shim. Have done that a ton.
 
Posts: 7782 | Location: Das heimat! | Registered: 10 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Picture of sambarman338
posted Hide Post
I prefer to put shims under or above the base rather than under the scope itself, though I have done the latter. Trouble is, unless you taper the sides of that ring shim exhaustively, the scope will tend to bear only at those sides.

With the old reticle-movement scopes you usually have to adjust the mounts somehow, and I have seen them more that three coke can thicknesses out. Then I use sheet stainless steel or pieces of old feeler gauge.
 
Posts: 5095 | Location: Melbourne, Australia | Registered: 31 March 2009Reply With Quote
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