Gentleman, I see it all the time, a nice blank of walnut lowered in grade due to the finish applied. I see it by gunmakers, big names both here in the U.S. and abroad. It is a shame.

The general reason is this:

Speed and ease.
And or they simply do not wish to learn whether or not the finish they are applying is indeed the best choice, and by the “best choice” I mean that which brings the most color and beauty out of the wood.
That may sound rather ambiguous but it is as near as I can explain it without seeming caustic.
The biggest reason for this, in my wondering amazement, is that everyone treats wood as, well, wood, when in fact that is a mistake.
NOT all wood is equal!
And of course we do not all have the time to sit around and figure out what works best for every different blank of gunstock wood.

So, a simple formula I will share for those that care to broaden their horizon is this:
THIN OIL that penetrates.
If the wood is dense, use the highest penetrating oil you can find and thin it to the point it has the viscosity of hot water.
If the wood is loose and open like Claro, and yes I am generalizing Claro because I have never seen a blank that was dense when compared to Turkish/English walnut, then most any finish will work well enough.
However….a thin penetrating oil will still help Claro walnut out even more.
Many of the makers use several store bought brands. Without naming names they simply use what works easy, when the reality is a straight penetrating oil with or without driers will work as well or better.
The worst finishes out there are those that sit on the surface without getting into the wood and sadly many makers use a finish like that and it is usually sprayed on.

Now, for an example to illustrate this below is a blank of wood from some trees we called “ZR”. These trees and these blanks were crazy stupid dense and laughed (rhetorical of course) at all finishes we and others applied to the wood. We even had guys send the blanks back when they wet them down because they did not feel they had enough color to them. But when asked what they wet them with, answers were all over the board. Rare that anyone cares to listen about a finish…one would think they would but their eyes are telling them something different and so, the story of that blank to be a gunstock goes another way.
In fact this blank of wood (turned for a Ruger No 1) was a return from a customer who chose to pick another blank. This is just one example.

The cut-off below the blank has a sealer applied first and then the oil (thinned teak) applied over it.
And YES...that is a cut-off from that actual stock. That is a remnant from the CNC turning the stock and is the belly of that stock.
The blank simply has thinned teak oil applied over it. The other difference is that the grain of the stock has now been exposed due to the rounding and shaping of the blank. This exposes open pores and allows the oil to penetrate and thereby give color to the wood.

Now...important...when this blank was photographed for purchase the photo looked more like the cut-off and not the stock! The biggest reason was the sealer applied to the blank (not the stock in the blank) and the fact that this sealer would not let the oil penetrate like it otherwise would.

Questions????

quote:

Originally posted by AFreeman:

Now...important...when this blank was photographed for purchase the photo looked more like the cut-off and not the stock!

Questions????

Can you share that photo with us?

I have always wondered why "sealer" is used when finihing rifle stocks, I know the reasoning is to stop moisture getting into the wood. But doesn't the "oil" finish achieve the same thing?? Also doen't the use of sealer also stop the penetration of the oil finish?
I have a stock on a Model12 that had sealer used on it and for the life of me I can't get a nice oil finish on it, while I have a Remington 700 that I refinished with tung oil, this certainly made the wood look several grades higher than the original plastic finish it had. With the oil finish this stock has never swelled or shrunk despite spending several days at a time in the rain......Kiwi

Well, I guess the takeaway is that sealed stocks can be salvaged by sanding off the sealer and starting over w/oil. No decent piece of walnut ever needs a sealer. Sealers are designed to control absorption of stains, paints, and other finishes into soft, porous woods. They also prevent resins and oils from bleeding out into finishes from certain woods. Pine comes to mind. They work great when staining beech and birch which can turn into a hideous muddy patchwork otherwise. Useful too for locking down certain stains. The trick to a good finish is to sand the sealed wood lightly to expose the hardwood while leaving the pores sealed. Then you can apply thinned oil as usual and get penetration. I like amber shellac for stock work. It has good refraction qualities which complement oil. The acrylic products are too cloudy. A good tung or modified polymerizing oil does a pretty good job of sealing the stock from moisture. Polyurethanes can also be thinned to achieve good penetration and then a finish can be built-up if desired.

Adam,
I think I asked you this before, but have you done any experimenting with heat or pressure to drive oil into the wood? personaly, I always try a couple different finishes with parts of the blank that were cut off. Earl

quote:

Originally posted by Big Earl:
Adam,
I think I asked you this before, but have you done any experimenting with heat or pressure to drive oil into the wood? personaly, I always try a couple different finishes with parts of the blank that were cut off. Earl

The easiest way would be to put the stock in a sealed container, cover with oil and draw a vacuum on it. Just like marinating a piece of beef. Of course once you do that, you'd have to sand off 1/8 inch of wood if you wanted to refinish it with something different.

Sealer is also used to speed up filling in the pores of the wood.

From the few stocks I've finished and refinished I find that there is just no way to cheat.

All sanding must be completed before any finish is applied. I go to a 400 grit finish then apply thinned tung or linseed oil, never tried teak.


Then sand in the oil coat after coat stepping up in grit till desired sheen is achieved. takes a few weeks minimum to a few months.

Gotta say I'm not fond of oil "darked" wood, even if it is the most protective of finishs.

Give me a shellac finish any time.. but I forgot we're talking gunstocks here :-)

James, Im sure I can find a photo of it. It was sold once and so it would have been photographed. I will post it.

Kiwishooter2, Some guys just like to use sealer. The school of thought there must be that the wood is further protected from the elements, perhaps.
However, I did a LOT of experiments over a 3 year period and found no advantages to using sealer other than uv light breaks down oil eventually, but so to does it break down sealer.
In the end, I found that teak oil was superior to all other oils. I do not know the reason other than it just simply worked better.

22wrf, Yes, just teak oil. Oil is a great and natural barrier from water and teak worked better than any other oil. The only two finishes....the only two that I found that were 100% water proof were Spar varnish and Cyanoacrylate glue, aka "super glue". Two part epoxies and auto finishes are also. however, they simply do nothing for the color...non of those mentioned do.
However, they can all be applied over cured oil once the color is achieved.
Beyond the use of oil as a finish....wax is all you need for bad weather. Then apply some oil at the end of the season if you wish.

Bobster, I think you are right on.

Big Earl, yes, I have played around with such. The problem or rather the catch 22 to this is that if the oil gets too deep the wood begins to look dark as in real dark. A high penetrating oil finish actually only goes in 15 or 50 thou...amazing really that it goes no deeper. Perhaps in more porous or open wood it does go deeper, i dont know.
I would not pressure wood with oil and try to get it any deeper than thinned oil will go on its own. On some rare and extremely dense blanks/stocks I will heat the oil and or the stock prior to any application.

kcscott, The problems I encountered with tung and especially linseed is they darken faster than the teak. Actually I could not get the teak to darken, where as the linseed goes dark fast. Tung is somewhere in the middle. Other than that the Teak just gave better color and more saturation of color. And it is my experience and personal opinion that this saturation of color is what really gives a stock beauty.

richj, there is a HUGE difference between oil darkened wood and wood finished properly with oil. More on that subject in my comments to Gundog...

Gundog64, I am very happy to hear that. It really truly does bring out the best color in wood. Guys, all, we have played with every known finish for wood....not just those directed at gunstocks. To say that thinned teak is slightly better is an understatement...I have just seen WAY TOO MANY high grade blanks finished with inferior oils and synthetics and polymers that did nothing for the innate beauty of the wood.
Go look in you safes and look at any nice english walnut stocks you have. If those mineral lines are chalky gray like or brown or anything other than saturated black....then the finish on that stock could have been done differently to bring out the contrast more...some blanks of average density (English and Turkish..average density for them) will be ok with a lot of finishes. Where this oil really comes into its own is on blanks that are just really tight grained and really dense.

The second thing that happens is the color of the wood is just simply more saturated...and seems to almost glow.

I have just gotten to a point where I will not use anything else, I am convinced that it is the best for releasing the inner color and contrast of every blank of gunwood.

I am not in the Teal oil business...no one I know or that I am related to is! lol
I am just trying to pass on what we have learned.

Thanks guys

lol....i always use Watco brand. It can be bought at Home Depot...and I have no connections with that store either!!!! lol

Adam

FYI Below ; An I have no affiliation with any of these company's either .

Penofin Stains - The Most Amazing Wood Finishes in the World!

* Brazilian Rosewood Oil Strong, flexible, water-resistant oil sustainably harvested from the nuts of the Brazilian rosewood tree. Allows the wood to retain its flexibility. Creates no surface film. No trees are ever cut down to obtain this oil.
* Transoxide Pigments These pigments also penetrate into the wood protecting it from the inside out from the sun’s damaging rays. Penofin provides up to 99% ultraviolet protection. It adds a rich, transparent color to enhance the natural beauty of the wood, highlighting the grain.
* High-Grade Mildewcide The finest possible mildewcide is used to retard growth of mold and mildew.
* Penetration Penofin’s low-solid formula ensures easy application; there are no lapmarks as with high-solid formulas. A high-solid stain means you must keep a wet edge during application or you will end up with an uneven finish. This simply does not happen with Penofin.

New Product!

Penofin is proud to introduce VERDE, the newest in their line of earth friendly products. Verde is the first of its kind. A 100% sustaintable, petroleum free oil finish with no heavy metal compounds and no odor. Verde is a 0-VOC finish that can be used in both interior and exterior applications. It is made with new age vegetable ester solvents, tough plant based resins, and the same high quality Brazilian Rosewood Oil found in all fine Penofin products.

Penofin Oil StainsPenofin products include Exterior, Interior, Marine, Pressure-Treated, Exotic Hardwood, and Verde formulas. Find out why thousands of professional contractors across the United States, Canada, and abroad rely on Penofin for the ultimate in wood care, and the continuing customer delight that using the best finish can bring. Try Penofin’s fine oil wood finishes today!

http://www.penofin.com/


http://www.duraseal.com/sectio...ucts/ss/gymthane.htm


A superior quality, high gloss polyurethane finish designed specifically for gymnasium floors. The DURA SEAL ™ GYMTHANE™ Sealer and Finish System resists rubber marks and scuffing and is easily maintained.

DIRECTIONS:
Preparation:
1. Properly prepare surface according to NOFMA OR NWFA approved methods. Screen using No.100 disc for final cut.
2. Remove all dust with a broom and/or vacuum and tack surface with a clean cloth moistened with mineral spirits.

Sealer Application:
1. Apply one coat of GYMTHANE Sealer with a lambswool applicator at a coverage rate of 500 square feet per gallon.
2. Allow to dry at least 8 hours.
3. Screen using No.100 disc.
4. Tack with a clean cloth moistened with mineral spirits to remove all dust.


Finish Application:
1. Apply first coat of GYMTHANE Finish with a lam bswool applicator at a coverage rate of 500 square feet per gallon.
2. Allow to dry at least 8 hours.
3. Screen with No.100 disc screen.
4. Tack with a clean cloth moistened with mineral spirits to remove all dust.
5. Apply a second coat of GYMTHANE Finish in the same manner as the first.

PRODUCT PROPERTIES:
DRY TIME & CURE Approximately 8 hours. Allow to dry overnight for light traffic; 48 hours for heavy traffic. Note: Drying time will be increased by high humidity, low temperature, lack of air movement or applying too heavily.
COVERAGE Approximately 500 square feet per gallon.
CLEAN UP Clean application tools with warm water immediately after use.
MAINTENANCE Sweep or dry dust mop floors daily. Stubborn rubber marks and stains may be removed using DURA SEAL™ Hardwood Floor Cleaner according to label directions. Occasional buffing with a polishing machine will renew luster.
SOLVENT Non-photochemically reactive.

PHYSICAL PROPERTIES:
NON-VOLATILE CONTENT 45%
VOLATILE CONTENT (RULE 66) 55%
RESISTANCE TO SKINNING No Skinning
COLOR No. 11 Gardner
DRY FILM COLOR No Darkening
PACKAGE STABILITY No Sediment, No Darkening
FLASH POINT 103°F
DRY TIME Dry to touch less than 3 Hours
Dry Hard 7 Hours
No Tack After 24 Hours
ABRASION RESISTANCE Sand
SWARD HARDNESS 52
COEFFICENT 125
FLEXIBILITY Passes 1/8" Mandrell Bend
TENSILE STRENGTH 100 psi

STAIN RESISTANCE TO WATER, DETERGENT, VEGETABLE OIL, ALCOHOL, NAPHTHA, BEER, COCA-COLA, PERSPIRATION.

THESE SPECIFICATIONS WERE OBTAINED THROUGH AN INDEPENDENT TESTING LAB IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE MAPLE FLOORING MANUFACTURERS ASSOCIATION'S STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS OF JANUARY, 1977.

Bottom line whether finishing a stock or out door furniture decks whatever out of wood

and you want the ultimate protection available in an OIL FINISH ; Look no further than Hardwood Flooring

products . If it penetrates and protects the woods I've listed below it will dam well do ANY Walnut species

with outstanding results !. Acer saccharum Rock Maple SPECIFIC GRAVITY: 0.56

Juglans regia Circassian walnut SPECIFIC GRAVITY: 0.47

Carya cordiformis; Bitternut Hickory SPECIFIC GRAVITY 0.72

Dalbergia nigra ;Brazilian rosewood SPECIFIC GRAVITY: 0.85

I've not only personally used nearly every wood finish on more species of wood , from around the world

than I can recall ; I actually formulated a few of them . ( Years back )

That's why I put the "darken" in quotes. I guess some oils are darker/muddier than others. Strangely enough a deli/market in downtown nyc stocked raw teak oil (I guess for cooking). They closed last year.

rich

Mr Freeman

Thank you for the benefit of your experience with stock finishing. I am quite sure you have done more thinking about this and finished more stocks than I will do in ten lifetimes. I don't disagree with your thesis that some oils will penetrate better (deeper) and some will darken more than others.

That said, I believe that the difference between a good finish and a great finish has more to do with the application methods used than the product chosen. When I use the "sanded in" method to fill the pores, the finish lacks depth and the colors never are as clear and crisp as when I wipe all of the "mud" off with thinner. If I fill the pores with finish, but not with the sanding dust, the finish seems much deeper and the colors are more clear. It is much faster to fill with the sanding 'mud', and I do that routinely with refinishing American black. If I see a nice piece of wood, I just use thinner and wipe between coats.

I understand this is not what most do, but I wonder if you have found anything similar.


Roger

"Understanding Wood Finishing" by Bob Flexner has a little info on what is sold as "Teak Oil".
He says there are 3 different types.

1) mineral oil that never cures
2)mix of wax and mineral oil that never cures
3)oil/varnish blend like sold by Watco, Behlen and others.

The oils used are probably linseed or tung oil and the varnish resin can be poly, alkyd, or natural. I'm pretty sure there isn't much if any genuine teak oil sold anywhere. The natural oil in teak wood makes it difficult for finish to stick to it. Not sure why anyone would want to make a finish that doesn't stick to anything.

The teak oil by Dalys I used on Terry's rifle is an oil modified urethane. The oil being tung oil.

quote:

The teak oil by Dalys I used on Terry's rifle is an oil modified urethane. The oil being tung oil.

That's enlightening. I use that product. It does have a long can life. I wonder what the Watco brand is. I also wonder the difference in Dalys other products like Seafin compared to their "teak" oil.

My can says
Dalys Seafin Teak Oil.
The more air in the can, the more the tung oil in the finish sucks the air out of the can and starts to collapse the can.

You.re right, I was thinking of pro-fin. Maybe pro-fin is just a faster drying version

Looks like most of the Daly finishes are Tung based, looked at their site. THe Teak works best for me.

Looks like Watco "Teak oil" is Linseed oil, a proprietary resin, and solvents

quote:

Originally posted by dempsey:
Looks like Watco "Teak oil" is Linseed oil, a proprietary resin, and solvents

Yes, and you will find most finishes are composed this way. "Teak Oil" is nothing more than marketing. I believe it refers to a finish that was applied to Teak wood rather than made from Teak oil.



Clearing Up the Mystery of Stock Oils

Boiled Linseed Oil and Tung Oil are the primary natural drying oils. Tung oil will dry adequately on its own, but for stock work, you need to use BLO. BLO is nowadays raw linseed oil with metallic driers added. In the old days, it was actually boiled at a low simmer in an open pot to cause cross-linking and polymerization. Any oil can be modified chemically to produce a drying resin. Alkyds and polyurethanes are two common examples. Soybean oil is used frequently because it is cheap and readily available.

Drying oils, driers(Japan Drier) and resins are commonly mixed in varying proportions to produce commercial "oils" which have desirable penetration, drying and hardness qualities. If there is more oil than resin it is usually called an oil. With more resin it is usually called a varnish or finish. A finish that comes pre-thinned with mineral spirits or turpentine is called a wiping varnish(Formby's Finish is a great example).

Whether or not you are using a drying oil, varnish or finish, if you want an in-the-wood finish you need to thin it with an appropriate solvent to give it penetration qualities(Formby's is an exception). They are too thick out of the can. Look upon it as buying finish concentrate that requires dilution. Common thinners are: mineral spirits, turpentine, naptha, and xylene. IMHO turpentine is the solvent of choice because it too contains natural resins which contribute hardness and integrity to the final product.

Contrary to popular belief, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using a varnish to produce an ITW finish. You just have to thin it and pretend it is an oil. However, you must not let a coat dry completely before applying the next coat. Otherwise, the coats may not stick to each other. This is especially true of polyurethanes. Re-apply when the preceding coat is still slightly "tacky". The time will depend on temperature and humidity conditions.

Once a coat reacts with oxygen in the air it will begin the polymerization process and start curing, even if covered by another coat. That's why an old can of varnish will harden with only the trapped air on top of it. You can eliminate this pesky issue and extend the life of the finish indefinitely by removing the oxygen. This can be done by storing the finish or oil under vacuum or replacing the air with a non-reactive gas. If you have a Foodsaver machine and some of their wine stoppers, you can transfer your oil/finish to a brown beer bottle(clean and dry of course) and vacuum seal it. Another way is to use a fluorocarbon computer keyboard cleaner and puff it into the can or bottle just before capping it. Always store finishes and oils in a dark container, and in a cool dark place, because they are affected by sunlight and temperature.

In summary, there is no mystery to oil-type wood finishes, only murkiness due to marketing hype. Natural drying oils like BLO and Tung are great, but require time to dry. You can make your own custom stock finishes from pure drying oils or blends of drying oils, driers, solvents, and varnish(resins). Fortunately for stock finishers the hard work of blending has been done for us. Products like Linspeed and TruOil are time-tested, consistent performers. They dry fast and have enough drying oil content to provide a tough yet flexible barrier to abrasion and moisture. These products are fairly inexpensive and can be thinned up to 3 times the original volume for hand rub applications. This cuts per stock finish cost to pennies. If you like brewing your own, have at it, but there is really no economic or practical need.

Bobster

Interesting read there...

I have been throwing around the ideas of how I want my Luxus blank finished. Still unsure of the final product, but I understand a little more after reading this.

I got a question though...Is the actual "art" of applying finish to a stock a professional type of job requirement? Or can a guy with common knowledge turn out a nice product with some patience and proper products?

Interesting read:

http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/finish7.shtml

quote:

Originally posted by Brando:
Interesting read there...

I have been throwing around the ideas of how I want my Luxus blank finished. Still unsure of the final product, but I understand a little more after reading this.

I got a question though...Is the actual "art" of applying finish to a stock a professional type of job requirement? Or can a guy with common knowledge turn out a nice product with some patience and proper products?

Brando,

The "art" part is your passion for excellence and attention to detail. Like painting, the key to a good wood finish is not the finish itself so much as the surface preparation. It has to be perfect and you have to want it to be perfect. If you have that drive and are patient you can do it. This not only includes perfection in the surface prep, but also in shape and symmetry. This part takes practice, and it helps to have some good reference books on stock making to follow in order to get pleasing proportions.

Rubbing or wiping the finish on is the easy part once it is thinned properly. Thinning makes it absorb properly and is self-leveling so there are no marks left behind. If you are not filling pores it is real easy. Kinda like a wax on, wax off deal. If you intend to checker the stock or just want a filler, the best filler is the sanding wood dust mixed with finish. Wet the stock with finish and do your final sanding. Wipe the slurry diagonally across the grain to fill the pores and let cure. Fine sand down to smooth and check pore filling with a wet coat of finish. Misses will show as pits. Repeat wet sand process till it is glass smooth, then apply final coats and you will have a pro finish.

If you want to stain, do that before wet sanding and then use the stained slurry to fill. You can also do controlled tinting by adding oil soluble stain to your finish. This will build a slightly deeper tint with every coat, giving you complete control.

Good luck!

Bobster

quote:

Originally posted by richj:
Interesting read:

http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/finish7.shtml

Indeed! Very nice in-depth backgrounder. The Germans actually used phenolic resin (a by-product of propellant manufacture) to glue the wood laminates of their K98K stocks. That's an example of the finish really being "in-the-wood" literally.

quote:

Originally posted by richj:
Interesting read:

http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/finish7.shtml

Lots of good info on that link Rich.

The more I learn about finishing the more I understand how little I really know about it.

For those willing to research this topic, violin manufacturers are a good source for some rich history in finishing. They still use traditional methods to finish world class instruments. The suppliers of raw materials for violin finishing usually have 15 or so different types of natural resin for brewing their varnish. I don't think you could convince anyone to power sand off the old finish on their Stradivarius and replace it with a "better" coat of polyurethane.

It may be equally hard to convince most English gunmakers to switch from linseed to tung-oil just because tung has better waterproofing properties. They are convinced that the look they get using their linseed concoctions is far superior to any tung based finishes. And their products hold their value for well over 100 years. Hard to throw rocks at successful track records.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bobster:
The easiest way would be to put the stock in a sealed container, cover with oil and draw a vacuum on it.

Preferably you do this in a good pressure vessel.
After pulling a vacuum on it you add pressure and drive the oil into the wood.That is how oil is impregnated into porous sintered brass to make bearings.

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:

quote:

Originally posted by SR4759:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bobster:
The easiest way would be to put the stock in a sealed container, cover with oil and draw a vacuum on it.

Preferably you do this in a good pressure vessel.
After pulling a vacuum on it you add pressure and drive the oil into the wood.That is how oil is impregnated into porous sintered brass to make bearings.

Actually, I think you could do it with the FoodSaver. Roll off about 5 feet of wide bag and seal one end. Then insert stock , add oil and vacuum seal. You need the longer bag to prevent the oil from being sucked into the machine. With meats the oil marinade goes right in. A porous piece of wood should do the same thing. As the air is drawn out of the wood, the oil should replace it to a significant depth. It might take several weeks to dry. Really though you don't need to do that. For the initial coat, just heat the stock to 100 F and slop on the oil as it cools until it won't take any more. Wipe it off and let dry for a few days. It will be deep enough.

Adam...you asked me NOT to call you Mr. Free man in an early post.

Hows this for timeing, I just picked up a can of Watco Teak Oil for an english Walnut project about 2 weeks ago.
I have used diffrent oil in the past and had settled on True Oil for a lot of other past projects. I know there is NO teak oil in this finish and its not advertised as haveing so. What caught my attention is it is used for such woods as...Teak, Mahogany and Rosewood. woods that are hard to finish.
Advertized product features:
Outstanding UV and moisture resistant finish
Great for marine use above the water line
Easy application and maintance
I'm always open minded enough to give something new a try, so I picked up a can and will use it on my next stock project. You say you thinned the Watco finish even more, this I have done even with True oil. There is a small sticker on my can that says do not thin? I have not opened the can to see what or how thin it is, that I'll do when I'm ready to finish.
Anyway, you say you thin it even more...right?
You got my attention, so if you have more to add, I'm listening and Thank You for this post!

srtrax, Free man! lol...funny, I am known for being the first to pick up a check for dinner or drinks but I have never personally referred to my self as such! Funny.
yes i do indeed thin it further. The primary reasons (supposition) the manufacturer would suggest not thinning is several fold.
1. Is it is already rather thin.
2. It will delay drying time.
3. It will take more coats to seal the wood.

All that said, none of that ever bothered me. I will also use Japan Dryer instead of mineral spirits to thin.
Also, I will use a few drops of cobalt drier with the mineral spirits provided I go that direction. If you use too much cobalt the ingredients of the Teak oil want to start to separate...so do not use too much. Too much would be more than say perhaps 10 drops...it is powerful and it is also a heavy metal, so use gloves and ventilation.

I make no claims as to knowing what is in the can, only that it is superior to every other oil we have used. And again, I left this stuff sit in water and outside for three years!
It was far and away the better of oils applied to wood.
And, it is my opinion it gave the best color.
See here:

here are various species of walnut, ie. Claro, English, Black, Turkish even maple and white oak as a base line.
All the woods had various densities for the individual woods. Meaning I did not select just one example of each species but multiple examples and placed in different piles and left outside for three years.
I selected an average example and a superior example re: density for all species.

Always, the denser wood of any species held up best.

In the end English and Turkish did the best with Black coming in a very close second. Black seemed to be very rot resistant but checked easier when the finishes started to erode.

a lot more info was learned and it was all written down.

It may not be easy to see, but there are many different finishes on those pieces of walnut pictured. Look close and you can see various shades on each piece. That is the finishes applied. Eventually they all started to break down and even some bleed into the wood deeper before they evaporated and broke down from UV.

I tend to cut the teak oil 50/50 with mineral spirits and add about 5 drops of cobalt to about two cups of the above mixture.
If using Japan Drier, I generally treat it like mineral spirits or I will go about 30% JP and 70% teak oil finish.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:

quote:

Originally posted by gunmaker:
My can says
Dalys Seafin Teak Oil.
The more air in the can, the more the tung oil in the finish sucks the air out of the can and starts to collapse the can.

Since your already showing yours, maybe I should send you a pic of my wrinkled can.



Or you could just check out a copy of "Fine Wood Finishing" by Don Newell (A chemical engineer~contributing editor for Fine Woodworking Magazine). Page 58.

I'm sure Don's just full of BS too.

Maybe I have misunderstood. If so, I apologise.

What I understood you to say that the amount of air in a metal can mixed with tung oil causes a metal can to crinkle.

I have cans of partially used Watco and other tung oil based products. None has wrinkled or crinkled or whatever. I called a friend who uses a lot of Watco because he does a lot of wood refinishing work. He never heard of this. Perhaps this is just specific to the Daly's products? I wonder if Mr. Wiebe ever had a Daly's can wrinkle?

Ok, let see the can.

Thank You for all the info, it will be very helpful when I get my project started on the finishing.
The Free man, well that was a typo, but hey!

Nice web site!!! Gunmaker

Question...

If one was to start finishing there stock. And went though alot of these steps of making sure the pours in the wood are filled with the desired stain, oil or whatever your using. And when the end result comes up you do not like it. How hard is it to remove the finish and start over? Or is that pretty much the end of that once the finish is filled into the pours.

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
I have cans of partially used Watco and other tung oil based products. None has wrinkled or crinkled or whatever. I called a friend who uses a lot of Watco because he does a lot of wood refinishing work. He never heard of this. Perhaps this is just specific to the Daly's products? I wonder if Mr. Wiebe ever had a Daly's can wrinkle?

Ok, let see the can.

here's the reason from a post above

quote:

Originally posted by dempsey:
Looks like Watco "Teak oil" is Linseed oil, a proprietary resin, and solvents

I'm not sure Watco uses any tung oil.
Just because a can of finish says tung oil on the label, doesn't mean there's tung oil in it. Or in a large enough percentage to react with the oxygen in the can. Many of the products you see sold as tung oil are really varnish.

quote:

The natural oil in teak wood makes it difficult for finish to stick to it. Not sure why anyone would want to make a finish that doesn't stick to anything.

James ; Honest Teak Oil is difficult too obtain now days . However it is an Excellent resinous natural Oil

with outstanding moisture as well as rot ( Mildew ) resistance . Teak can have nearly any finish applied

provided proper preparation is taken . Sanding too open the dense grain ,an wiping with two cloth method

Acetone or Lacquer solvent an dry towel ,so as to remove surface Oil as well as dried resins .

Doing the above method 3-5 times insures a decent footing for applied finishes other than oil .

A word of caution if doing exterior Teak wood finishing ; IMO Oil is a better option .

as a light scuffing and brushing an Oil finish works well . Other wise typically a Captain's or Spar

varnish with several GLOSS coats are advised . Here is the problem , MOST people don't stay on top

of finishes ,Oil Varnish Paint or other wise . So Prep for a Varnish or paint becomes a PITA !.

With Oil light sand reapply oil or either finish if kept up . Looks an degree of protection

is the only end differences again IMO !. I personally prefer Modified Moisture cured Urethane or two

component Type 1&II aliphatic Aerospace clear coatings such as Anac 422X

A two-component, chemically cured epoxy topcoat designed to provide
chemical resistance coupled with sufficient flexibility to minimize chipping
and flaking. This epoxy topcoat can be used with various primers or without .
Normally military specification primers MIL-P-85582, MIL-P-23377 or MIL-P-53022
are recommended .



Oil-modified urethane is generally the most common surface finish and is easy to apply. It is a petroleum base with a blend of synthetic resins, plasticizers and other film forming ingredients that produces a durable surface that is moisture-resistant. It is a solvent-base polyurethane that dries in about eight hours. This type of finish ambers with age. and comes in different sheen levels.


Moisture-cured urethane is a solvent-base polyurethane that is more durable and more moisture resistant than other surface finishes. Moisture-cure urethane comes in non-yellowing and in ambering types and is generally available in satin or gloss. These finishes are extremely difficult to apply, have a strong odor and are best left to the professional.
Curing of this type of finish is by absorbing minute quantities of moisture vapor from the air, which causes them to dry and harden. The curing process is very dependent on relative humidity.


Water-based urethane is a water-borne urethane with a blend of synthetic resins, plasticizers and other film forming ingredients that produces a durable surface that is moisture-resistant. These finishes are clear and non-yellowing and are different sheen levels. They have a milder odor than oil-modified finishes have and they dry in about two to three hours. Water-based urethane's are generally more expensive.


Conversion-Varnish Sealers-(Swedish Finishes)- A two-component acid-curing, alcohol-based sealers. Because of their origin (country), conversion varnish sealers are often referred to as Swedish finishes

Penetrating Sealers - These sealers are spread on the floor and allowed to penetrate and are solvent based. The excess sealer is removed with rags or buffed in with synthetic or steel wool pads. This type of finish often have a color and can be used to stain and seal the wood floor. Penetrating Oil Sealers are made from tung or linseed oil, with additives improve drying and hardness.


Paste Wax- The oldest, and in some ways the best. Wax is the easiest to apply, least expensive, fastest drying, easiest to repair, and with proper care will survive forever. Wax over a penetrating stain, and the system is in the wood so you wear the wood, not the finish. Wax is spread in thin coats for a surface protection after the stain and/or sealer is applied, then buffed to the desired sheen.

Daly's Sea-Fin Teak Oil® is a Tung Oil finish that is widely available in the Northwest. In recent years their distribution has increased, so it may be available in other areas. In my opinion, it is the best of the commercial wipe-on products. It is easy to get a good finish when the directions printed on the label are followed.

MSDS

65% mineral spirits
http://www.dalyspaint.com/PDF/msds/M-TeakOil.pdf

quote:

Originally posted by 22WRF:
well, the Watco "Teak" oil (blue can) is half tung and half linseed.

Not according to their MSDS.
All they list is linseed.