Whenever I do a Ackley Improved job, converting an existing chamber, I always remove the barrel and set it up just like cutting a new chamber.

But, what I was wondering, has anybody tried doing by hand with the reamer? I have heard a lot of people do this but, I havent heard the results of doing this by hand without removeing the barrel.

I have a customer with a 280 Rem that he wants improved. I am currently moving my shop and my lathe is in transition, out of order right now. I think that the case taper is straight enough that the AI reamer's pilot will enter the barrel before the flutes begin to cut the sides at the main body.

The rifle is a factory Remington hunting rifle, so it isn't anything special. Otherwise, I wouldn't even consider doing something like this.

Thanks, James

03 Springfields were headspaced this way by hand with the Rec installed. The only problem I see with turning a std into an improved chamber without removing the barrel is you still need to turn the shoulder back at least .004" or more. Standard GO gage is NOGO for an improved chamber. If the factory chamber is a little closer to the NOGO gage then you need to take off more than .004".
gunmaker

gunmaker,

I was afraid of that. I guess I can give it a try and see whether or not it needs to be set back. The 35 Whelen and '06 I improved didn't need this, but now that you mentioned that I did have to set back a 270 Win that I improved.

Thanks for the reminder, James

If the barrel is not set back then the headspace will be to long for using factory ammo. At least in very one I've delt with.

It sounds as if you have not been setting the barrel back as required when doing an Ackley Improved chamber. You simply cannot do a re-chamber without setting it back and you for sure cannot just hand ream the new chamber. How many of these rechambered Ackley's have you done incorrectly?

Jim,

None! The two rifles came in with complaints of not chambering ammunition. A quick check with a go gauge confirmed the problem. This is the reason I didn't have to set back the two barrels. The two rifles I didn't have to set back were already been chambered to short. I gave the customers the option of going with an AI chamber for the same price and they did. I simply set them up, went in until the AI head space go gauge closed on them, and checked to make sure that the old chamber had been cleaned up, test fired and called it good.

The 270 was a different story, the reason being that it was a factory rifle, post 64 Win, were the other two were A&B barrels screwed into Mauser 98s. It was atleast ten or more years ago and this was the first AI chamber that I modified. I went in there until the AI go gauge closed and check the chamber. I could easily see that the reamer had not cleaned up the factory chamber and I had to cut it about 8-10 thou deeper to get it to clean up and of course I now remember having to set the shoulder back.

I have been building rifles for succesful competitve shooters for sometime now, when I am not working in the tool and die industry. I am a gunsmith that actually knows how to machine unlike 99% of the gunsmiths out there. All of my rifles are guarenteed to have chambers within .0002 or better. So I can honestly say that nothing has left my shop that was less than of the highest standard. I guess maybe I should have addressed my question to hack gunsmiths to get the answer I was looking for.

quote:

Originally posted by James_B:
The rifle is a factory Remington hunting rifle, so it isn't anything special. Otherwise, I wouldn't even consider doing something like this.

Hmmmmm,

quote:

Originally posted by James_B:
I have been building rifles for succesful competitve shooters for sometime now, when I am not working in the tool and die industry. I am a gunsmith that actually knows how to machine unlike 99% of the gunsmiths out there. All of my rifles are guarenteed to have chambers within .0002 or better. So I can honestly say that nothing has left my shop that was less than of the highest standard.

Okay, so why would you even consider doing a less than perfect job because it is only a hunting rifle? As a "gunsmith", when you're not being a tool and die maker, you really should be performing at 100 percent regardless whether it is a "hunting rifle" or a competition rifle. Your customer would expect no less...

I am also a trained machinist. My question deals with tolerances and I can assume you know about tolerances. How in the hell do you measure .0002"? I know it can be measured using the right equipment, but????

Tough crowd. Guess I will withhold my ackley improved zip gun chambering question.

Reguarding measureing .0002, it is very easy using a Interapid tenth indicator or any other quality indicator or measuring device. In fact, measuring half a tenth, .00005, with my Interapid is possible if done properly. Sometimes you have to be creative about the set-up to get a measurement but it if done properly, it can be done.

I also have access to a CMM, Cordinate Measuring Machine. It too, with the proper stylus, can measure tenths or better very accurately. But, it is not what a common gunsmith has access to and I wouldn't expect one to, at 5-10 grand for a good cheap one.

"So why would you even consider doing a less than perfect job because it is only a hunting rifle". I agree I should be working at my best for my customers and I do. One, it is for a friend that asked me to do it that way, I know I said "customer", but I guess since it is so important I should have specified friend, and that is the only option we have due to the time frame. Two, For customers, I don't take work in that involes the use of factory barrels anymore. I normally build rifles using custom actions and barrels and rarely do I build a rifle on a factory action. For a customer I wouldn't do any such thing as this, but for a friend who wants it ASAP and knows what the consequences are and doesn't care since it is a factory barrel I will do it.

390ish,

Don't be afraid they don't bite. It is that some people have nothing better to do than try to make others look like inferior gunsmiths or pick apart every little detail out of a question that the topic changes from what it originally started as to a battle over minor wording mistakes. It is an ego thing that all forums have, so lets hear your question.

Kinda funny as on the one hand you claim to be Mr. 2 tenths machinist, and your first post asks about hand reaming a chamber

Then you try and baffle with bullshit about your tenths indicator, when kinda failing to realize it is useless for measuring the depth of a chamber.

Also kinda fishy that your lathe is in transit, but you just happen to have your barrel vise, reamers and indicators handy???

quote:

Don't be afraid they don't bite. It is that some people have nothing better to do than try to make others look like inferior gunsmiths or pick apart every little detail out of a question that the topic changes from what it originally started as to a battle over minor wording mistakes. It is an ego thing that all forums have, so lets hear your question.

James, gimme a break here! "minor wording mistakes"! Because you want to hand ream a chamber, with the barrel still in the action? I guess the part I find curious is that you say you are a tool and die maker, yet you can't come up with a lathe somewhere? What do you think you're supposed to do at your job anyway?

Regarding the "every little detail" quote, it is the little details that separate a good job from a catastrophe.

Personally, I think you would have gotten a supportive response had you posted a query more on the lines of "I have a Rem 700 in 280, can I ream an AI chamber in it by hand?"

"...guaranteed to have chambers of .0002 or better..." Just what the hell are you measuring. I know about Interapid tenth indicators, but what the hell is the measurment for. Is that the amount of excess between headspace go gauge and minimum chamber or what? Is it runout? And besides, how in the hell to you determine what that measure is? Usually when chambering a barrel, one takes the measurement from the face of the action to the bolt face. If you are measuring that with a depth mike you sure as hell can't get a measurement within .0005" let alone .0002. I think you need to go back to your first grade tool and die class and go over the measuring course. Sorry, I needed venting.

I don't mean to hijack this thread but saw this claim by Spencer Rifle Barrels:

"We guarantee the runout of our chambers to be less than 50 millionths of an inch."

Man, that's a lot of zeros between the decimal and the 5!!!

Hype, or fact?

FWIW, I have a Rem 700 chambered 338-06AI and thought I might want to rechamber to 338Hawk. Fred Zeglin said he would set back the barrel 1 thread and then rechamber. I'm not a machinist or gunsmith. Like James_B I thought perhaps the job could be done by hand through the action. I deferred to Fred's knowledge and in the end decided the cost was not worth the performance gain.

Interesting question.. wants to hand ream and then says no guns leaves without being .0002 runout. That tol is IMPOSSIBLE handreaming

.0002 is MEANS .0001 on either side... just about impossible, like getting all weatherby lugs to hit!!

What kind of lathe and climate control are you using to keep .0002 runout?

Who makes your reamers?

Just wondering, as .0002 is an ORDER OF MAGNITUDE greater tol than required for MOA.


Seriously, what lathe are you using? How do you keep the temp of the lathe, the slab, and the barrel consistent?

Dave,
"50 millionths" is
.000050 ...
or 1/2 a tenth thou
.00005 ...

not as amazing as it sounds, in a total climate controled, state of the art facility.

Of course, .00005 can't be measured by the home guy...
.0001 tir is fairly tough on a regular lathe to measure...

jeffe

Methinks he doth protest too much; or did he shut down. What was that .0002 for? I never didget an answer.

Jim

Mr. B, How creative can you be in setting up an indicator to read a half tenth, on an indicator that any machinist knows will not read that accuratly. We all know that what it will read and its accuracy parameters are two different things,by quite a bit. I am also curious as to how long it takes you to pull a bbl. and indicate it in. It shouldn't be much longer than it would take to screw up a chamber trying to ream it with the bbl. on the gun.