Hello Craftsman,

Good to hear from you. I missed the last meeting at Shilen's. Maybe next year if I can be in the area.

I use flat 1/8 in. to 1/4 inch chisels for most of the cutting. Small chisels with very thin cutting edge will go right through the end grain. Sharpen every few cuts to make sure of the edge. It has to be tempered correctly to hold the edge with the end grains. Light straw edge!!!

Hope this helps

I went to visit Les today. Looks even better in person and he got rather a lot of work done on it whilst we were jawing about old days at TSJC. He was one of the fellers at TSJC who always always always told it like it was, no apologies, and I still have my class notes and drawings from 2 decades ago for reference and the chisels he had us make before we were allowed to touch wood. Still use the same chisels too.

Them p-dogs are fittin' to be executed by a very handsome .204 Rugger

Great seeing you again Les, and thanks for all the inspiration and chastisement when I'd done stupid things.

Talked to my dad about having a nice visit with Les, and dad had come out with me when I went to look at the gun college to see about enrolling. Les doesn't much remember my dad cos it was decades ago and one meeting but my dad remembers meeting Les. He said "We'll look after him like he's one of our own and teach him something." I asked if he was sure that was who said it, and he said "yup", as we met all the instructors and some students that week before I decided to move to Colorado for a while.

My dad remembers that a couple decades later. Fine stockmaker. Fine Man. Humbled that he is my friend.

Tools that I use the most for removing extra wood are shown in this picture. The small plane will help keep the outside straight and simple. The No. 49 rasp is a must for any stock work. Brownell's sell these and the are not cheap. The 1/2 in. flat and gouge are used to speed up removing the extra wood. The gouge will not split out the wood are bad as the flat.

You probably noticed that this is a staight grained stock blank. This is much easier to work as a first stock for anyone wanting to learn this trade.

The stock is roughed out at this point and I will go back to smooth out the lines.

Next I will go back over the shaping and check for straight lines. Reshape the cheek piece and than wait a couple of days. I like to wait and review to see if I want to make a small change.

I will use the original floor plate release which I cut to clear the stock. The original bottom would need to be cut into the blank. This is first time that I have tried this change.

The sanding is the most hated job for me to do. That's coming up soon!!!

Les

This thread is terrific. I wish I could have been watching the whole project. This is the next best thing though.

Did you keep track of how much time you have in the project so far?

Are you going to follow up with finish technique and checkering? I certainly hope so.

I have completed the shaping. The only scope that I have for use now is the 2X7 Leupold. The stock turned out like I had hoped a with 7/8 inch drop at the heel. This is about the right amount of drop that I need. Length of pull is 13 1/2 inches and with scope weights in at 7 1/2 lbs.

Sanding will take a day and than the spar varnish sealer. Then I will use Tru Oil for the finish.

This project has taken me about 48 hrs so far. I had several days of rain so the shade tree shop was closed. April 13 thru 24th

I hope that some of you have followed this project. A person doesn't have to have too many tools to make a stock. It just takes lots of time to cut one out by hand. It reminds me why I made my own stock duplicator 27 years ago.

Thank You, Les I am looking forward to seeing the stock after sanding and finishing.

James

Les what is the method that you use to determine the correct drop at the toe & heel?
I know that both measurements are made off the centerline of the bore.

Les

Can you arrange a photo to show us exactly how you determine location, angle and shape of the grip?

quote:

Can you arrange a photo to show us exactly how you determine location, angle and shape of the grip?

DITTO on that request!

Maybe this will show up Ok for you to see where I layout the stock.

Finding the grip lines:

POINT A front of trigger location for an arc that is #1 curve and is the front of the grip location, RADIUS IS 3 7/8 in.

POINT B top on comb and about 90 degrees to center bore line straight down through where the grip cap will be about 3/4 in. from where arc #1 is located. That is about where the front of the comb is located where it curves down to the top of the grip.

From POINT B make an arc #2 to intercept the #1 arc line. This RADIUS is 3 3/4 in. if you are planning on a skeleton grip cap. You need about 1/4 in. of extra wood to inlett into the grip cap. When this cap is inletted you will have a 3 1/2 in.from top of comb to the cap like I have in this sketch. The line from the top of the comb to an area behind the grip cap with be about 2 3/4 in. This will be on a line from the butt toe to an area slightly above the location of where the rear guard screw is going to be when finished inletting the guard.

The location for the top of the comb at the front will need to be 1/2 in. down from the center bore line or bolt cocking sear clearance. The drop on a classic at the heel can be 1/2 in. to 1 in. drop depending on how you hold you rifle. If wearing glasses use enough drop to allow your head to be straight up and stay out of the edge of the lens. My own drop is about 7/8 in. on classic style stocks. The butt end should be about 5 inches where finished and the length of pull for my guns are about 13 1/2 inch LOP. I suggest that you measure any rifle that feels correct for you. If you are 6 ft plus a longer pull will need to be considered. There is no set dimension that I can give you. Also take into consideration whether you will be hunting with a heavy coat. Most people try to use a stock that is too long. Pitch of the butt plate for me needs to be about 3/16 in. in at the toe. That line is determined from a pitch line 90 degrees to the center bore line.

The grip cap angle can be placed from 1 to 2 inches in front of the top of the heel. There isn't a dimensions that is right only. Where the angle of the grip cap comes up close to the bottom toe line you should have from zero to 3/16 in radius for my style of classic. Remember all stockmakers have their own style which will be slightly different. Find your own likes and improve with each stock until you like what you are seeing. The customers will find you if you can produce pleasing stock lines.

The raduis line of the grip on this stock is from a 2 lb coffee can which is about an 8 in. radius.

Remember that these lines on this stock is for me. If you like what you see with these dimensions just copy this stock.

It sure is a work of art....love it!

Crap I have trouble getting close to that starting with a semi inletted blank.

Looks great thanks for sharing.

Les do you need any drop from toe to heel if you are ONLY going to use a scope? Can the toe & heel be parallel to the bore line?

Les

The drawing for finding the grip lines is very helpful.

In the past the grip has been the most difficult part of blank layout.

Les, what a wonderful gift to give us forum users. I just printed a book about stock making by Les Brooks. Super addition to my library of wisdom gleaned from the Gunsmithing Forum. I'm just elated, it came at the best time. My stock just came back from Michael Kokolus in need of finishing. This will really help and guide my hands. Thank you for sharing your years of wisdom and skill.

Thanks Millions Les -- you've inspired me to try whittlin from a blank, again ... though my mill will do a bunch of the roughing, we'll see where it goes!

The shade tree shop is closed for now. I have a couple of coats of sealer on the stock and will start sanding back in a couple of days.

The RV wheels are turning again and we are heading out west and hope to find some prairie dogs in a couple of weeks. Should be in New Mexico most of the summer.

I will need to find someone to bead blast the complete gun and hot blue it soon. You don;t realize how much I miss my own shop equipment and bluing tanks.

OLCRIP, I hope this will help you. When I am using a semi inletted stock I inlett the trigger guard first to use as a guide. YOU MIGHT HAVE NOTICED THAT I START INLETTING THE ACTION AND BARREL FIRST WHEN STARTING FROM A BLANK.

Doug Humbarger, Your last question is not clear. The heel and the toe are considered the butt end of my stocks. The comb is the top line of the butt stock. The toe and heel can be 90 degrees to the bore line butt not parallel. A scoped rifle stock needs to have about 1 1/2 inches of clearance between the top of the comb and the center of the SIGHT LINE. Face shape can change this a little to fit your shooting style.

Jeffeosso,

Glad that it has got you interested again in whittl'n. I am wondering how many have read the post and pick up some pointers from my methods. We have got to go visiting for a couple of hours and later tonight I will PM you.
later,

Thanks,

Les

quote:

Doug Humbarger, Your last question is not clear. The heel and the toe are considered the butt end of my stocks

I meant comb not heel (comb & heel) parallel to centerline. my brain was on vacation i guess!

I mentioned that I like to use the two point bedding of the barrel. Try to have about 3 to 4 lbs of pressure between the wood and the barrel. The barrel is clear from this point to the action. A custom rifle needs to fit tight in the wood but not to a point of having to drive the action out of the wood. No gaps

How far does the barrel set into the barrel channel? Looks like 50% of the barrel sits below the stock line? Do you ever go less?

Try to inlett the barrel 1/2 depth by using a small square to check the stock. It is better to have slightly less depth than too deep. The deeper you go down into the wood it becomes a gap along the barrel channel if more than 1/2 depth.

When shaping the butt area don't cut into the grip area behind the grip checkering area more than the thickness of the grip. I call this area the web. I will try to draw on one of my pictures and mark the area called the web. Maybe post later today.

Les

quote:

Glad that it has got you interested again in whittl'n. I am wondering how many have read the post and pick up some pointers from my methods.

I have done two from a blank and it wasnt as easy as someone who has done it for years makes it seem... . I have a blank in the closet that I just didnt want someone else to hack on and send it back and hope for the best. Thanks Mr. Brooks, makes me want to make saw dust!

for what its worth, and that's not much from my hands, i got the barreled action inletted tonight in my 30Tok/Destroyer ...
I might like it, but it aint to standard of Les
's. or billy's, work .. they are both amazing inletters

as horrible as it is, i have the bottom inletted as well

Jeffeosso, Show some of your pictures.

I am on the road and it will be a few days before I can get back to my work. I need to sand the filler back and get on with the finishing so I can checker the stock. Hope to be in NM in about another week.

Les ..
hmm, its still a bit ugly!

good lord.. ugly doesn't cover it ... but, i learnt a bunch, and will do better next time

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
good lord.. ugly doesn't cover it ... but, i learnt a bunch, and will do better next time

Jeffe, you finally have your attitude screwed on in the right direction. There's only one way to go, that's up. The only time your attitude is allowed to go down is when your so old and gone that morphine doesn't help any more and even then you should still be kicking and asking for a last BEER. I'm glad to hear that you have faith in your growth and abilities. I'll give you six more months and then I'm going to run a stock blank down to the the Lone Star for you to rough out for me.

Got my 458 Lott stock back from Michael Kokolus in PA. He did a great job, like you said he would. I'm tickled with it.

Thanks .. I am much better on my pantograph.. which I designed from Les's design ... i first time i tried shittlin one, it was superglued up cuts and a fire!

i'll get better .. anything you keep doing, you get better at

thanks -

and THANKS LES!

Les,
Nice display that you so skillfully documented. That was very brave using a hand drill to make the action screw holes. I would have messed that up in a heartbeat. I do stocks from a blank in a very similar way except I use a jointer to square of the top and one side (and a drill press for the holes, lol). Would be a bit tough to load one of those in your pickup bed. I do like the idea of doing stockwork in the country side.

Hey Chic,

It is not too hard to drill straight holes if you have a little help from a friend. I use a long shank drill so that the 2 inch square can be placed along the drill for alignment. The friends job is to watch that I don't tilt the drill side to side. It takes a good eye ball!!and mine are about used up.

I know you have seen my stock machine which I made to be portable. It will cut about as good as a North Star carver. Some have made copies of the machine from the info that I have made available to them. The machine only weighs about 130 lbs. and stores in 3 square feet of floor space. I sold most of the power tools a few years ago and needed to make this last stock for myself. Since I have not seen anyone show how to make a stock completely by hand I thought I would put this on the AR forum so all could see the results.

Remember to save pictures of your work and some day maybe we can meet down by the old oak tree and discuss stockmaking.

Today I sanded back down and started the Tru Oil finish. In a few days I will start the checkering and this will be hard because trying to control the lighting outside. My eyes are not very good and I really dread to checker this time.

That 204 Ruger almost jumped out of my trailer yesterday as we passed through a large PDogs town outside of Brownfield, Tx.

Very impressive...I am always amazed at what artisans can produce with their hands.

Les,

Could you give a few tips about keeping the stock lines 'sharp'???

I am having one hell of a time shaping the comb nose fluting on top of the grip and the finger clearance arches on the inside of the grip blending with the trigger guard...

Do you use an aluminum template- sanding right up to it? A french curve??? Free hand isn't working out for me- I can't even get it right with epoxy!

DeBee, use any templete that you need until you get the results you are hoping to make. It takes experience of making many stocks to develope a style. I am a free hand stockmaker and use very few templetes. A precision eye ball is the main tool needed to be a good stockmaker.

Take your time and study the stock curves before cutting. The comb nose area is cut by using a barrel channel rasp. Mark lines on both sides first. Rasp down into the stock so that the web connecting each side at the front is about 3/16 in wide. I like to look from the front area to check for both sides being evenly matched. Stockmakers have their own styles and no two are alike. Many stockmakers can only make one style and most use a duplicator to produce the copied results each time. I used a 2 lb coffee can to make the rough outline for the stock in this write up.

I will be getting back to the stock next week and start the checkering and finishing.

I have made a little more progress on my stock. I sanded with a new type of paper as I usually use garnet paper. This new type from Norton is worth the money as you will get more sanding done quicker. I started with 100 grit and than raised the grain with water. Dry over a gas flame and be carefull not to burn the wood. Next sanding was with 180 grit and raise the grain again. I have only sanded down to 220 for this stock as I want it to be a satin finish. The spray finish by MiniWax can be found at almost any store. This finish is what I am using as a filler and apply it heavy on the first coat. If is runs too much use a paper towel to wipe it off in that area. Recoat over again and hope that it doesn't run too much. I wait about 1 hour and apply another heavy coat. If you apply the 2nd coating after waiting over night you will need to sand using 220 grit the finish on the stock to make it bond with the first coats. Let this dry for about 5 days before trying to cut the finish back down to the wood. You should have the grain filled by now and ready for another lighter coat of spray varnish. Repeat the above if you need more filling in the grain.

This type of finish will be about as water proof as you need. I like to you a spray type finish as it is easier for me to work.

The stock will be ready to checker at this point. I hope to start the checkering in about 4 days. In the mean time I will do a little more metal work.

I have tried to use as much of the original metal parts so here is what I have done to the action. I will use the original trigger, but not the side safety. I used a standard 98 bolt sleeve and cut it the same as the mini bolt sleeve on the threads. Next is to make an insert for the smaller firing pin to pass through the 98 sleeve. File the sides flat and make a press fit with about a .050 collar to fit against the front end of the converted sleeve to act as base for the firing pin spring to stop against. Next is to make a new safety. I used a hacksaw and files to make the safety from a piece of 1/2 in square cold rold steel. I will case harden the working area after it is finished. It took me 2 days to make the bolt sleeve and safety. AT .50 cents an hour I figure I made $8 dollars. Not too bad for a retired old man.

I didn't mention that all the machine work was done on my Unimat DL200 lathe. Yes it can be done, but don't rush the machine.

I still need to finish the bolt handle and get it welded on if I can find someone to weld it for me. My welding equipment is at my sons in Texas.

Some of you may have used the original floor plate release which required a large area to be cut from a new stock. My approach was to use the original part without cutting into the wood. I cut away some on both sides to allow for the button to work without hitting the wood. It works well enough for my working field varmint rifle.

I found a Simmons 2X10X44 WTC-14 at a gun show. For $40 I think I will take a chance
on it working for what I need. It appears to be in good condition and adjustments seem to work well. I have never owned a Simmons but from what I found on the forums that older ones are better. This is an older model.

I hope to shoot it in this week to see if all parts are working well. I will post what happens at the range.

Spray Urethane - the wonders of modern technology; to heck with this hand finished oil stuff that I'm doing for my father-in-laws rifle. Does it look cool? You bet, but given the amount of time it takes and that I have 4 young kids and am usually out of town during the week for work; they don't like dad spending time on finishing the stock.

Urethane next time!!!!